503 replies to this topic

[Kin3ticX]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 June 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

I want a "Battletech game" that...resembles Battletech instead of generic stompy robot shooter.

You essentially get that already. PGI already hamstrings itself way too much by going through technical readouts and creating mech specs based on line by line translations(such as the Myth Lynx or the Summoner). The Summoner Prime as 3 hardpoints because the TRO says it has 3 hardpoints not to mention the hardlocked stuff which is also following omnitech. It needlessly ***** some mechs over while sparing others just based on something someone created 25+ years ago. There is no doubt whatsoever its a battletech game just based on how close PGI has adopted construction rulesets any other aspects.

The comp players or church of skill people or whatever you want to call them probably just look on in horror at some of that stuff.

[STEF_]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 June 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:

...... since the last Town Hall?

Also, for those unfamiliar with the "Fortress" concept:
http://www.sarna.net...rtress_Republic

Essentially a complete withdrawal to within a protective "core" with all access vigorously blocked off to the outside world. And a pattern established by PGI in 2013 when "under siege" in the past over ideas the playerbase did not agree with.

Over the last couple months, I will freely admit, we have been less than "gentle" on Russ. The last two Town Halls were... not well received. The Rifleman launch, lukewarm. Archer release? Outright disaster. CW phase 3? A whimper. And telling the playerbase as a whole we have no clue what we are talking about when it comes to balancing the game...well... not a great approach considering how demonstrably poor balance has been since open beta.

Mind you, I get it. Running a company and being badgered on all sides? Frustrating beyond words. Having crap like the MiffedKittymkII Entitlement campaign rammed down your throat on multiple social platforms... well it had me ready to punch baby seals. Conflicting "experts" on how to fix everything. All while trying to get stuff together for what you perceive as the crowning moment for the game so far, the "World Championships".

So maybe I'm reading the tea leaves all wrong. I know I have barely even tweeted Russ over the last 2 months because I could sense how frustrated he was getting. Maybe someone with more "insight" can clarify. The total silence, lack of a TH, mech announcement, etc, are kind of hard to miss.

Me? I'd just like to know that there is still signs of life, and enthusiasm for MWO from within. Those inclined to trash Russ and PGI are going to do it regardless. But for those who might be inclined to give support...it becomes harder to do each day PGI stays silent. I honestly don't care if Russ was annoyed and stuck his foot in his mouth. People do that daily.

I do care about the seeming response to the criticism received, because I remember 2013, and early 2014. It was an ugly ugly time to be play MWO and to be on the Forums which became increasingly toxic the longer the Devs stayed silent.

Nature abhors a vacuum. If PGI doesn't fill it, then the Reddiots and such will. And the more yu let the inmates run the asylum...maybe the more they deserve to.

*shrugs*

Just my 2ct as a former white knight, and "concerned citizen".

Honestly I still remember that "thrash" post done my Russ, in which he claimed and hoped that e-sport was the way to go for MWO.
I hated that post and his intentions, because I knew it was going to be the death any BT hopes and the death about any hopes to have a decent MW game.
Also it was the explanation why pgi was pushing mwo towards the stupid CS fps game experience we have right now.


edit: that idiotic post and PGI wrong plan are also the reason why I'm looking foward BT from HBS beta, asap...to leave this thrash.
Because my soul needs BT and MW, that's why I'm still playing mwo.... but my soul doesn't want to live in this thrash and prefer cleaner sites.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 05 June 2016 - 08:26 PM.

[Dudeman3k]

AnimeFreak40K, on 05 June 2016 - 05:52 PM, said:

It doesn't help that some new releases (such as Overwatch) would do an amazing job of destroying the population here, just because it's new and shiny.

Regarding everything else, I wouldn't say that's an overestimation of your worth...but it certainly is disheartening when you don't care about a particular thing as much as you used to, and it certainly is a bad sign when you have fanboys deciding that they just don't care that much anymore.

I play Overwatch a lot now a days for a few good reasons (other than its "new and shiny")

-The game is legitimately competitive. No snow-Ball effect, unique, and (for a recent release) well balanced.

-It has Lore... lore that they create from scratch! MWO is a BT front... all the lore is already here, but MWO does nothing to capitalize with it... none.... that hurts immersion. Think war thunder. They (WT) layout the entire history of the bird you're piloting, the pivotal role it's played in war, the construction, and it's makes you say "F$%K yeah im piloting this! it's a war hero!"..... MWO throws out a new robot and you say "ah, I guess it looks cool." or "does it have high mount points??"

- It's one game mode, but it feels like it's brand new every week. The arcade mode is sweet. It touches up on lore of the game "genji vs Hanzo" matches, or its faster pace with quicker Ultimates.... it's flavor-full and and always changing, but its still just only ATK/DEF.... weird how it works. MWO though.... no matter what "game mode" you play. it's always "deathmatch" and it's boring.

I'm no stranger to fast pace FPS's, with that said, i'd much rather play a slower paced mech sim, but this isn't it...... Hell, Ive reinstalled MW4:mercs and played PvE with more satisfaction than I do MWO

[slide]

My 2 Cents...FWIW

I have never expected anything from this game that wasn't advertised by PGI in the first place. From thinking mans shooter right through to the promise of no 3pv. All of it was always promoted by PGI. Every expectation came on the back of some promise or grand vision made by PGI. This is in no way shape or form the "simulation" they originally promised. They have failed at so many of the things they themselves described that I no longer believe anything they have to say until I actually see it in the game, something which almost never happens.

PGI have no idea who they want to market this game too anymore. They started with BT fans, annoyed most of them so much that they had to target the larger "shooter" audience. That has failed and now they are moving on to the e-sport crowd.

Seriously does anyone know of anyone who wasn't already playing MWO that has signed up for the tournament?

The fact that a great many whales, white knights and die hard BT fans have either switched to the dark side or left the game entirely speak volumes for the way PGI and Russ and Bryan in particular have treated the player base. Getting these types to lose faith takes concerted, consistent effort. Comments like "you are not the target audience" to the very Founders that got this game funded enough to launch, was just the first in a very long line of mistakes that has people pissed off at PGI to this very day.

IMO however the biggest mistake PGI (probably forced by IGP as a money grab) has made so far was introducing the Clans. Basically it just upset everything. From in game balance, to dividing an already small player base. But more importantly it exponentially increased PGI's workload. From producing Clan mechs and weapons, to balance, to creating CW, not to mention UI issues and mechlab. It made everything harder. PGI have never had the manpower to pull it off. PGI's bank account might be overflowing with funds from overpriced Gold Clan Mechs (or not) but it didn't help with development of the game in any noticeably positive way. Clans should have been introduced about now, after a fully functional and immersive game was finished.

This game is less like Mechwarrior now, than it was in closed beta. The meta has changed, TTK has dropped and we have more mechs and maps. But every game mode is still basically team death match just like it was back then (even CW more or less). There is still no immersion in the universe, no reason to play other than to grind out enough Cbills/xp to master or purchase your next mech. There are only so many goals you can set yourself before the game becomes just another match to grind XP or Cbills and winning means less and less as time goes on as long as you make those CBills.

Do PGI deserve some of the vitriol that they get, perhaps not, certainly not the way it is delivered sometimes. But they have made their bed, by doing it their way, now they have to lie in it. Unfortunately the bed is missing one leg and the roof above is leaking.

[Dudeman3k]

AnimeFreak40K, on 05 June 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

Oh, there is no doubt in my mind that Overwatch is good. Blizzard tends to put sufficient time, effort and love into any of their projects that even with minimal marketing, they will do well just on word-of-mouth alone.

However, I won't touch it, mostly because I can't stand FPS games as a general thing. The only reason why I have stuck around MWO for as long as I have is because the issues I have with FPS games (limited view arc, camera placement and the like) don't really exist in MWO... or any game where you're piloting something.

With regard to MWO being a shooter when it wasn't supposed to be... well, I don't know. I have taken the view that MWO was, at its core, a fairly standard (and basic) FPS. The differences between it and pretty much any other basic shooter is the ability to tweak/customize your toon/avatar/character/giant robot in such a way that no other FPS allowed. But that's just how I see things however...

You'd be surprised how non-twitch FPS Overwatch is. It's not CS:S or CoD. It's surprisingly fluid and well thought out (deep). It doesn't have the multiple hard points like big stompy robots, but if youre looking for an incredible team oriented game, Overwatch is it.

[Carl Vickers]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 June 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

I think you are on to something. Everything seemed ...positive (not great, but like PGI was actualyl invested in trying to make stuff happen, even if not always the best way) but seemed like...coming off of the Xmas break..PGI and Russ ...never quite .... recaptured that drive.

Admittedly we don't see behind the curtain. Could be they are at their limit of what they can create. Could be simple burnout over the way a vocal minority (which they shoudl simply tune out) QQ over everything like the InfoWar PTS...which while not dialed in right, had a lot of interesting ideas to pursue.

The problem is, as far as the community goes, that aside from frustration with PGI there is nothing remotely resembling a consensus on what TO DO with the game. Just look how I lock horns with the Church of Skill folk...because *gasp* I want a "Battletech game" that...resembles Battletech instead of generic stompy robot shooter.

Scout Derek I think is underestimating PGIs culpability in their own PR problems... but he's not wrong in that we the community are a fractious bunch of whiny SoBs, too.

Gotta remember, Derek is working for 'Da Man'. He has some leeway in what he can say and do but still has to tow a line.

I think the game has too many crowds active to actually cater for in regards to game play and not really enough population of each to support the required development needed for each group.

I think what should have happened was the game came out as promised, then the extra stuff added, e-sports for the skilled wanna be's, campaign for the solo heroes, FW for the teamsters. Instead we end up with something that has elements of each but misses the mark on all of them and leaves everyone unhappy at PGI.

[SkyHammyr]

Personally, I think this tournament is a joke.
$130k+ and all this time which could be better spent on something else.
Hell, with the format being 8v8 instead of 12v12 (like how they intend the game to be played), they end up with questionable balance data.
It's just plain dumb.

Man, things used to be great around here last year, going into February. Unseens were happening, new maps/modes were happening, townhalls were lively and electric. Russ sounded so optomistic, even pie in the skying PvE. It was great to be a Mechwarrior.


Then, CW3 happened and everything went to heck.

Edited by SkyHammyr, 05 June 2016 - 08:42 PM.

[meteorol]

I'm fine with Russ staying silent, he is the CEO after all.

But I have been asking myself what the flying f*ck Tina is doing for quite some time now. She is a paid CM after all, isn't she? She has less than a post per day... honestly, i have never seen less "visible" community managing by any CM, ever. What the hell is she doing all day long? What does she get paid for? Was she initially hired as CM but given other stuff to do afterwards?
If you compare the visible amount of community work she does to other games' CMs, she is pretty much non existent.

[Sorbic]

Dudeman3k, on 05 June 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

-It has Lore... lore that they create from scratch! MWO is a BT front... all the lore is already here, but MWO does nothing to capitalize with it... none.... that hurts immersion. Think war thunder. They (WT) layout the entire history of the bird you're piloting, the pivotal role it's played in war, the construction, and it's makes you say "F$%K yeah im piloting this! it's a war hero!"..... MWO throws out a new robot and you say "ah, I guess it looks cool." or "does it have high mount points??"

Actually some time ago PGI started writing lore for launch announcements of mechs. However it really would be nice if it was easily accessible in the mechlab.

Edited by Sorbic, 05 June 2016 - 09:34 PM.

[Lostdragon]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 June 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

that's the thing.

Take me...one of the foremost labeled white knights and whales in MWO history. Absolute absurd fanatic of all things Batletech/Mechwarrior IP.

And I barely care enough to log in and fire up the client because the game has been stuck in the same low skill cap, low ttk, vanilla build/gamemode rut for way too long.

IDK..maybe I overestimate my own worth, but when one of your biggest fanbois goes "meh"? Probably not a great sign for how well things are going, overall. *shrugs*

I feel like the end time are upon us after reading this. I personally feel the same way. I actually uninstalled MWO to clear up some room on my SSD to install some new games about 5 days ago. I don't see reinstalling it any time soon. The KDK was fun for a day or two, but the game is tale and boring now, with no real changes to alleviate that in sight.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

They haven't employed a single succsesful community manager.
Thats the problem.

Now i dont know if thats down to the people or the job description.

[Sader325]

Phase 3 was a failure. Last townhall Russ basicly told us we're lucky the game exists. The Kodiak is a overquirked cash grab if I ever saw one.


Sounds like their fault not hours.

[Deathlike]

Oderint dum Metuant, on 05 June 2016 - 09:49 PM, said:

They haven't employed a single succsesful community manager.
Thats the problem.

Now i dont know if thats down to the people or the job description.

The problem starts from the top.

[Bishop Steiner]

Oderint dum Metuant, on 05 June 2016 - 09:49 PM, said:

They haven't employed a single succsesful community manager.
Thats the problem.

Now i dont know if thats down to the people or the job description.

community manager is limited by the quality of what they have to deal with, both in Dev Team, and Community. Suffice it to say, Tina rolled snake eyes in that regard.

[STEF_]

slide, on 05 June 2016 - 08:33 PM, said:

My 2 Cents...FWIW

I have never expected anything from this game that wasn't advertised by PGI in the first place. From thinking mans shooter right through to the promise of no 3pv. All of it was always promoted by PGI. Every expectation came on the back of some promise or grand vision made by PGI. This is in no way shape or form the "simulation" they originally promised. They have failed at so many of the things they themselves described that I no longer believe anything they have to say until I actually see it in the game, something which almost never happens.

PGI have no idea who they want to market this game too anymore. They started with BT fans, annoyed most of them so much that they had to target the larger "shooter" audience. That has failed and now they are moving on to the e-sport crowd.

Seriously does anyone know of anyone who wasn't already playing MWO that has signed up for the tournament?

The fact that a great many whales, white knights and die hard BT fans have either switched to the dark side or left the game entirely speak volumes for the way PGI and Russ and Bryan in particular have treated the player base. Getting these types to lose faith takes concerted, consistent effort. Comments like "you are not the target audience" to the very Founders that got this game funded enough to launch, was just the first in a very long line of mistakes that has people pissed off at PGI to this very day.

IMO however the biggest mistake PGI (probably forced by IGP as a money grab) has made so far was introducing the Clans. Basically it just upset everything. From in game balance, to dividing an already small player base. But more importantly it exponentially increased PGI's workload. From producing Clan mechs and weapons, to balance, to creating CW, not to mention UI issues and mechlab. It made everything harder. PGI have never had the manpower to pull it off. PGI's bank account might be overflowing with funds from overpriced Gold Clan Mechs (or not) but it didn't help with development of the game in any noticeably positive way. Clans should have been introduced about now, after a fully functional and immersive game was finished.

This game is less like Mechwarrior now, than it was in closed beta. The meta has changed, TTK has dropped and we have more mechs and maps. But every game mode is still basically team death match just like it was back then (even CW more or less). There is still no immersion in the universe, no reason to play other than to grind out enough Cbills/xp to master or purchase your next mech. There are only so many goals you can set yourself before the game becomes just another match to grind XP or Cbills and winning means less and less as time goes on as long as you make those CBills.

Do PGI deserve some of the vitriol that they get, perhaps not, certainly not the way it is delivered sometimes. But they have made their bed, by doing it their way, now they have to lie in it. Unfortunately the bed is missing one leg and the roof above is leaking.

BUT........ "We do not need any suggestios by playerbase. We perfectly know what to do"

gg close.

As stated previously, when BT by HBS come out...I'm outta here

o7

[ScarecrowES]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 June 2016 - 10:06 PM, said:

community manager is limited by the quality of what they have to deal with, both in Dev Team, and Community. Suffice it to say, Tina rolled snake eyes in that regard.

Interestingly though, there ARE plenty of interesting things Tina has available to her that she can talk about. Some of this she and the dev staff DO talk about, but not in any forum where interested people are likely to ever actually encounter it.

The MWO twitch account is used fairly often to do dev streams and even dev play dates. Lots of interesting behind-the-scenes stuff and previews can be gleaned from these streams. Are those streams ever really advertised here on the official site? Nope. Are they archived and catalogued in a way where users who might want to check in on various aspects of the game could pop in and view a stream talking about this or that thing that interests them? Nope.

Instagram? Lots of content in work at any given time, but we get an update once in a blue moon. Once a week would seem too little. Hell, even just the occasional picture of an unskinned model or 10-second video of an animation test is good enough to get the forums buzzing. They could do this more often.

Beyond that... with processes going on like the rescale project, which probably has more player interest than most projects PGI has ever gone through... it seems a wasted opportunity for community involvement to not at least talk about this process. Rather than smack it all down at the end of the project and say "well here it is..." the smarter move would be to release smaller previews with greater frequency to both show that PGI cares and to keep the worst of the community at bay. Even though they COULD do this, and it's in their interest to do so, they chose not to.

And I don't understand that at all. PGI likes to play out their community interactions as secretive as possible, and it doesn't do them any benefit at all to do so. Their best course of action is in transparency. The more they tell us, the better off we all are. There is always something they can talk about. Why they chose not to, I'll never understand. I don't know if PGI just has no clue how to interact with their community, or if they're intentionally playing it close to the vest. Or... yeah... maybe their community managers are just not very good.

[Brut4ce]

Green Mamba, on 05 June 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

Does Bryan Eckman still work for PGI ?

I think he went MIA somewhere in the TransVerse

[wanderer]

Y'know, we'd probably be less worried if 1) Silence wasn't so golden on the Russ-o-meter and:



The more we can only see a partial total of players, the worse it feels.

[Thorn Hallis]

Maybe Russ is just busy counting dollars?

[invernomuto]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 June 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:

it becomes harder to do each day PGI stays silent. I honestly don't care if Russ was annoyed and stuck his foot in his mouth. People do that daily.

I do care about the seeming response to the criticism received, because I remember 2013, and early 2014. It was an ugly ugly time to be play MWO and to be on the Forums which became increasingly toxic the longer the Devs stayed silent.

IMVHO, the concept of having one 4-hours-long town hall a month is unsustainable. What can you discuss each month? New mech? I am no surprised that they were suspended because the questions are always the same. Developing something new for the game require time and money, some thing could not work for a moltitude of reason and could be scrapped at the final stage, so it's better not to speak too much in advance on future contents...