90 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Mole, on 09 June 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

Are you guys gonna be screaming to ban my surround sound Razer Kraken headset now because its noise canceling earmuffs allow me to hear the game better than everyone else, thus giving me an inhuman and unfair advantage?

What? You do not have your own well-equipped and soundproof playroom? Peasant!

[mogs01gt]

Ultimax, on 09 June 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

Your opinion is irrelevant.

L2R. The title of the thread was asking for my opinion....

[Mystere]

Cathy, on 09 June 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

I think they are a cheap crutch, to make up for lack of skill., I've seen several people with skills fire faster by rolling the buttons.

I won't use them I'm not that sad, but I don't use 6 x AC2 builds, so I don't need to.

However, people are allowed to use them if they are sad enough, or are that desperate to need to feel that good about themselves.

Sure, insult people who use macros all you want if that helps you sleep better at night.

[Mole]

Moldur, on 09 June 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

I do 3 groups of all the AC/2 on chainfire, just in case anyone is curious how to stagger fire them without macros.

I usually have them all assigned to one weapon group and activate chain fire on that group and then just spam my mouse button. It's pretty easy.

[Tarogato]

[TKSax]

I will say what I said in the last thread.

Macros only increase quality of life, not qualty of your play. There is not a macro out there that will make you a superstar in MWO.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Macros provide no competitive advantage, so I don't care. Something like TAG toggle should be in the game anyway. Hell yeah I macro that one.

All of this fuss over AC2 macros I do find freaking hilarious. AC2s people. Is this real life?

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 09 June 2016 - 11:50 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 09 June 2016 - 05:38 AM, said:

So I kinda just found out that some people (even youtubers) use these third party macro thingies. What are your opinion on these? Are they even legal?

My opinon is whatever PGI's is. My Opinon is irrelevant when they have already made a stance on the use of macros.


They are allowed, so what. Some game they are some they arent. I love how this is such a huge deal that we have multiple post about it and think we are gonna change PGI's stance after all these years.

Macros are allowed, Pull your knickers back down and get on with it.

Edited by Revis Volek, 09 June 2016 - 11:54 AM.

[Mole]

LT. HARDCASE, on 09 June 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:

Macros provide no competitive advantage, so I don't care. Something like TAG toggle should be in the game anyway. Hell yeah I macro that one.

All of this fuss over AC2 macros I do find freaking hilarious. AC2s people. Is this real life?

I've actually discovered that 3 or more AC/2s can make a really nasty lead thrower. I didn't take AC/2s seriously either until I was desperately trying to find a Victor that still worked and wound up kicking people's **** in with one that was armed with 3 AC/2s.

[blood4blood]

Macros are great for repetitive crafting in an MMO where you have to double-click items over & over to open them in PvE mode.

Other than that, I've never liked them. Tried them for various combos in MMO's years ago and I thought they were clunky and detrimental to good play. If a macro sequence got interrupted, it could cause all sorts of havoc in your performance whether it was an armor-switching macro that left you half-naked in a fight or a combat skill macro where a single interrupt made you waste the later skills in the chain, putting your best attacks on cool down, etc. MWO is relatively simplistic in combat functions, since there's no dependent skill chains, armor switching on the fly, no potions to take or buffs to cast, no skill interrupts or debuffs, etc. Even the gauss charge-up, which is probably the clunkiest think in MWO, is a simple press & release that's easy to use manually. I really don't see why anyone would need a macro, but if other players want to use them, whatever, I don't care.

[Cowboy1]

I use them to cycle through a group of 8 lasers on my kodiak two at a time like you were able to do on all the previous mechwarrior games.

[Fut]

Aresye, on 09 June 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

No, because those mechanics are still in place. UAC jamming and ghost heat are balancing mechanics, not skill based mechanics. A macro will NOT let you circumvent ghost heat, nor avoid jam chance when firing UACs faster than their full cooldown.

Just seems like there's a lot of conflicting info on Macro use, and I can't help but think that some of it is purposefully deceitful. I mean, we have a bunch of Tier 1 players claiming that LRMs are garbage, but as soon as a Macro conversation comes up they run straight to the "Tag should have been on a toggle to begin with. I just use Macros for that" defense. Why are people running Tag with a Macro-Toggle if nobody in the upper Tiers use LRMs?

If I can create a macro to ensure that no more than 6 MLs will fire within 0.5 seconds on my HBK-4P, while I just hold the button down, isn't that circumventing a balancing mechanic that would normally require some thought and skill on the part of the player? Sure, you could just practice and hope that you nail the 0.51 second spacing on the second group of MLs to avoid heat penalties, but it's easier to have a macro do it isn't it? (The same could be said for any of the weapons affected by the Ghost Heat mechanic, I used MLs as an example. A DWF with 8xERLL and a macro to avoid Ghost Heat is another example).

It just seems odd to me that nobody is using Macros for this sort of thing, it's always TAG Toggle, MG Toggle, AC2s, jokes jokes jokes..etc - and it's usually followed up closely with ridiculous hyperbole about gaming mice, and brainwave scanning peripherals, like people can't see the clear distinction between all of this.

The best defense, though, has got to be "Well PGI says macros are okay, so they're okay - end of story". Right, because that's the conversation people starting these threads are trying to have. Might as well just move to the Philipines and start killing drug dealers, killing is alright because their President says so! End of story. Moral standards? Code of Ethics? Don't worry, don't even discuss it, the head honcho says it's fine, so have at it.

Anyhow, that's my little rant.
In case anybody is keeping score, I honestly don't care if people use Macros or not, it just irritates me to see so many people kidding themselves...

Revis Volek, on 09 June 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

My opinon is whatever PGI's is. My Opinon is irrelevant when they have already made a stance on the use of macros.

So if PGI pulled a 180 tomorrow and 'banned' macros, you'd agree with it and condemn those who wanted to use them?

Edited by Fut, 09 June 2016 - 12:32 PM.

[Ultimax]

Moldur, on 09 June 2016 - 10:31 AM, said:

You haven't really said anything if your point is that PGI allows them, therefore everyone else's opinion is irrelevant. That's like if PGI had banned them, and the only reason was "It's not ok because it is banned."

The above 'argument' is a convenient way to skirt around discussing macros themselves, you could throw anything into that logic and it would work.. What is being discussing in this thread is people's opinions on macros. What is being discussed is not whether or not macros are currently allowed, but what people think about macros themselves. Talking about how macros are treated, rather than what they actually are in the context of MWO, is not entirely pertinent to the discussion.

A lot of anticheats- even bad ones- for other games don't have a problem blocking macros, but I agree that PGI is probably too inept to do that. It is interesting to note that during the in-person finals, macros are banned.

There is a lot of hardware with on-board macro capability, as well as tons of other options, like AHK, or sometimes you can even find macros that people have written for specific games. I guess you could stretch that to saying it is a basic function in [current year.] Still, many pvp games disable macros and scripts, and bypassing the anticheat in order to use them will sometimes result in a ban. In light of such, I am not sure that is a very good reason either.





Anyway, most of us can agree that PGI can't actually do anything about macros because they are too busy shelling out all that hot, new, high quality content all the time, so discussion of what PGI should do about macros is pointless.

"I don't like macros."
"oh yeah, well I do like macros."

is about all this thread should consist of.

This thread is not people saying "I don't like macros" and "I like macros".

This thread is the same parade of clowns labelling other people "cheaters" even though they aren't cheating.


That's ignorance and I won't stand for it.

I refuse to let ignorant comments like that go, and for what its worth you are not allowed by the CoC to accuse others of cheating with a real hack program much less blindly call people cheaters for using something that is not only innocuous but explicitly allowed by PGI.


Basically it boils down to people who are fossilized curmudgeons who don't like what they don't understand (which is voluminous) and on the other side people who understand modern PC technology and consequently understand what actually constitutes cheating and what does not.

Edited by Ultimax, 09 June 2016 - 12:40 PM.

[TercieI]

Ultimax, on 09 June 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

This thread is not people saying "I don't like macros" and "I like macros".

This thread is the same parade of clowns labelling other people "cheaters" even though they aren't cheating.


That's ignorance and I won't stand for it.

I refuse to let ignorant comments like that go, and for what its worth you are not allowed by the CoC to accuse others of cheating with a real hack program much less blindly call people cheaters for using something that is not only innocuous but explicitly allowed by PGI.


Basically it boils down to people who are fossilized curmudgeons who don't like what they don't understand (which is voluminous) and on the other side people who understand modern PC technology and consequently understand what actually constitutes cheating and what does not.

Sadly, you can't fix stupid, which is why I'm not bothering with this any more.

[Revis Volek]

Fut, on 09 June 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

So if PGI pulled a 180 tomorrow and 'banned' macros, you'd agree with it and condemn those who wanted to use them?

Sure would, They reserve the right to change the rules, they don't even have to let us know about it. Its in the CoC....

If i was OK with it now, why would i flip flop just because the rule changed. Rules is rules, its not like it some unjust law that we as noble citizens of MWO are standing up to, some tyranny or something.


Its the RULES, they are what they are. Adhere or put an egg in your shoe.....

[Ultimax]

TercieI, on 09 June 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

Sadly, you can't fix stupid, which is why I'm not bothering with this any more.

We don't need to fix stupid, we just need to add enough direct opposition to it that the people in the middle who haven't formed an opinion have another voice to listen to.

I never actually expect to change the opinions of those who are hardlocked onto some illogical and poorly thought out opinion.

Fut, on 09 June 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

So if PGI pulled a 180 tomorrow and 'banned' macros, you'd agree with it and condemn those who wanted to use them?

If PGI banned them tomorrow, I would disagree with the decision but I would then willingly comply because that would be the new rule.

[Johnny Z]

+1 for tandem macros are cheating topics.

Suggestion: have a macros and aim bot section of the forums for none stop debates about 3rd party program cheats.

[Wintersdark]

jjm1, on 09 June 2016 - 06:30 AM, said:

Holding gauss charge until needed. A macro for this is cheating a mechanic that is meant to require a human skill.

That doesn't work. The best you can do is a macro that holds one gauss of several so there's always one charged. That's possible, and while it's possible to do it manually would be bloody difficult.

But being able to fire one of several gauss rifles instantly is hardly a noteworthy advantage.

But you absolutely can not keep one gauss rifle (or two together) constantly ready to fire.

[Templar Dane]

Idiots under the impression that a battery of AC2s that are on chain fire with macros are somehow better than just alpha striking.

That or they think that it's somehow a cheat that lets you alpha 6x AC2 every .20 seconds.

[Fut]

Revis Volek, on 09 June 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

Sure would, They reserve the right to change the rules, they don't even have to let us know about it. Its in the CoC....

If i was OK with it now, why would i flip flop just because the rule changed. Rules is rules, its not like it some unjust law that we as noble citizens of MWO are standing up to, some tyranny or something.

Its the RULES, they are what they are. Adhere or put an egg in your shoe.....

Thanks, I appreciate the concise response.
Seems like some people do feel like it's an 'unjust law' though, hence all the threads.

Ultimax, on 09 June 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

If PGI banned them tomorrow, I would disagree with the decision but I would then willingly comply because that would be the new rule.

It's good to hear that there are so many upstanding players in the community. Kudos to us.

I just assume that the people making these threads are trying to show their disagreement with the current Macro-Stance, probably hoping to garner enough support for things to change.Can't really blame them for that.

If PGI banned macros tomorrow, or if they heavily promoted their use, it would have no effect on my game play.
I just have a hard time staying out of these conversations because there are so many faulty arguments on both sides and I get a real kick out of a good debate. Although, I suppose I can also assume that the "faulty arguments" are stemming from the fact that it's the same conversations over and over again, and people are just tired of getting into the nitty gritty every time.