125 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

Johnny Z, on 12 June 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

Partial quotes and saying that comparisons with competitors is irrelevant, in a topic that begins with such comparisons, makes your statement less than worthless.

"This other game is more fun and has a better business model."
"I don't care."
"This other game is less fun and has a worse business model."
"SEE LOOK AT THIS **** AREN'T YOU GLAD THIS GAME WE'RE PLAYING ISN'T AS BAD AS THIS OTHER GAME LOL."

This is you.

[Gasboy]

Get the tournament booster. 10 bucks US, and it's good til December. 10% c-bill bonus, iirc.

It's a decent investment.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Gasboy, on 12 June 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

Get the tournament booster. 10 bucks US, and it's good til December. 10% c-bill bonus, iirc.

It's a decent investment.

This is just flat out poor financial advice.

Investments generally would get a return. Still waiting on my almost 1k "investment" in this minimally viable product to get any return. CW = loss.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 12 June 2016 - 11:16 AM.

[The Lobsters]

Serious answer to OP (I've had my coffee now)

Coming from Eve online to MWO, paying something for my game doesn't seem unreasonable. I'll usually buy a mech pack every month or so which keeps me in premium time.

Also, coming from the creative industries I am more than happy to support a product if I'm enjoying it. It's hard enough making a crust in the creative industries without people expecting to get access to your product for free. People need to get paid. Especially people in a small studio like PGI that don't have the economic advantages of a larger studio.

Yes, there could be many improvements but at the end of the day I'm still glad there is someone keeping the Battletech/Mechwarrior flame lit.

Considering how much money I've wasted on drink, drugs and loose women, forking out for mechwarrior seems so little it's barely worth a mention.

[Erufen]

Johnny Z, on 12 June 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

You made a long topic saying reasons you don't want to spend money on this game and felt that you were being forced to.

My reply is that the reasons you gave meant you either didn't know what you were talking about or that you are a liar. The end result is that your topic is hot air/troll.

Worste case you are lying publicly to discourage your fellow players from spending money on a game that I presume you play. Best case, like I said before, you have no idea what your talking about in your entire topic.

Personally I don't know why anyone would make a negative topic like this and not be expected to be accurate. I make very few topics and not all positive but I try to be accurate, same with my replies, as a matter of course.


Also in your topic you mentioned a competitor game that you did spend money on. That's fine. I tried that game and personally didn't think it was worth spending money on. I didn't go to that games forums and spout complete nonsense.

Its so nice when I get someone like you. I really get to take what's wrong with the game and exemplify it, making you the sacrificial lamb.

Johnny Z, on 12 June 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

My reply is that the reasons you gave meant you either didn't know what you were talking about or that you are a liar

What exactly am I lying about? The screenshots I shared? The math involved? The costs? The mechanics?
What exactly don't I know?

Johnny Z, on 12 June 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

Worste case you are lying publicly to discourage your fellow players from spending money on a game that I presume you play. Best case, like I said before, you have no idea what your talking about in your entire topic.

Yes, you've said this 3 times now, yet you haven't actually shown nor proven me to be either ignorant on the subject at hand, nor a liar. All you are doing is huffing and puffing.

Johnny Z, on 12 June 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

Personally I don't know why anyone would make a negative topic like this and not be expected to be accurate.

Except it is accurate. Unless you mean to tell me that you have pointed out and countered the inaccuracies of the topic somewhere. By which case, I would like for you to quote them. Else, this is nothing more than huffing and puffing.

Johnny Z, on 12 June 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

I make very few topics and not all positive but I try to be accurate, same with my replies, as a matter of course.

Like, showing where I'm lying, or how I am ignorant about the game, or that I haven't spent money in the game before?

Johnny Z, on 12 June 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

Also in your topic you mentioned a competitor game that you did spend money on. That's fine. I tried that game and personally didn't think it was worth spending money on. I didn't go to that games forums and spout complete nonsense.

Ah, there it is. You are butthurt because I dared bring up a different game into my discussion (claiming it's a competitor is inane, at best, but you are accurate in everything you say, right?)
I hope you understand what a similie and comparison are, because that is exactly what the point in bringing Warframe to the table was.

You are so clueless, yet have the poise to try and tell the rest of us how we are all liars and ignorant. I suggest you heed your own advice.

lastly:

Johnny Z said:

He is saying this game is trying to force him to spend money which means hes either ignorant or a liar so I get to be impolite I think. Thanks.

Well aren't you a special snowflake? Not only are you unsure of what I'm doing, you think you are entitled to be....well...you.

EDIT: In hindsight, why do I bother. Obviously, this is an unpopular opinion, and bringing anything that might be thought provoking here is evidently not welcome.
And you guys wonder why this game is dying.

Edited by Erufen, 12 June 2016 - 11:55 AM.

[Gasboy]

GRiPSViGiL, on 12 June 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

This is just flat out poor financial advice.

Investments generally would get a return. Still waiting on my almost 1k "investment" in this minimally viable product to get any return. CW = loss.

The return is fun. Good times. Good kills. Nice shots. Maybe some new friends. Also, you get 10% bonus on c-bills and XP. If you play a couple hours a week til December, about 26 weeks or so, you end up (10 dollars / 52 hours) spending 19 cents an hour. Surely you can eke out more than 19 cents of fun per hour in this game?

If not, why are you still here?

[Gasboy]

Erufen, on 12 June 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

No, i don't.
Just because there are worse games out there doesn't mean this isn't bad on its own.

"You should count yourself lucky! In this forced labor camp, they don't make us go upside down in the septic tank after lunch!"

He's not comparing MWO to worse games, he saying to try other F2P games and see how they have it set up. MWO has a very decent "grind", in that you can start with any mech, and not have to work your way through a tree to get what you want.

Quote

Sure, but since I'm not saying anything about XP, i'm calling this a straw man argument.

Quote

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Quote

By that same token, $20 worth of premium currency gets you an entire tier worth in WoT or WT (that is around 11 vehicles) vs only 1 mech here. Straw man.

Uhm, no, you are incorrect. For both games. $20 dollars does not get you an entire tier's worth. $20 will all you to 1) buy very small (IE light tanks, biplanes) vehicles from their website stores. (higher tier vehicles can cost you $50 dollars or more, for one vehicle). 2) buy a bunch of gold (premium currency, like MC for MWO). The gold is very similar in costs to MWO's MC.

Quote

Although true, any other game in the market also gives you 100% bonus for whatever the premium applies to, instead of 40%. Also, most games with premium time cost around ~$5 per month.

Nope. Premium time for most games in the same category as MWO run at 12-15 bucks a month. It gets more efficient (IE cheaper) if you shell out $100 dollars for their premium currency and buy a year's worth of premium time.

[Red Shrike]

Personally, I got 25 mechs in total. Of those 25 mechs, 15 of them were either obtained through mech packs or as rewards. So I bought 10 mechs with C-Bills.
Doing a little math with the stats on the forums, I'd say I had to play an average of 89 games to obtain a single mech.


P.S. That being said, I still have 4344 hours of banked premium time because MWO is still not worth putting 4344 hours into.

[Salticidae]

The whole game economy is broken, I buy all the packs and I now have 1.650.000 c-bills. Have 10 + of each moduel and nothing to spend my c-bills on.

[MechaBattler]

The grind is real. But it's real in a lot of free to play games. At least we now have the option to buy premium bonus after a match. Helps take the edge off a bit.

The grind gets easier as you collect more equipment. If you're playing regular queue you only need one mech at a time, two if you're really grinding. I often plan my next purchase based on what engine I could swap in. And there's the rare-ish C-bill discount on the weekend.

[C E Dwyer]

O.P

if your saying you won't put money into this game, for what is one of the easiest games of its type for grind, you won't put money into it if P.G.I doubled the c-bill income.

I don't doubt your figures are accurate, but the figures you are complaining about, are very similar and in many cases cheaper than the competition.

I just spent £35 on a single ship for World of Warships, I only have to spend, £26 here to get 3 standard variants and the hero with C-bill boost.

Your basically trying to blame P.G.I for your lack of time or commitment to the game, I to have a family, I to have a job, and yet I've mastered every mech fully until the origins packs came along, and I own every single mech in the game, until the viper comes out, I also haven't bothered with the night gyr.

No I'm not a white night, if you bother to look at my latest posting you will see nothing but critical posts about the way P.G.I are handling or I strongly believe now, mishandling this product, but you sir are being totally unreasonable in your expectations

[GRiPSViGiL]

Gasboy, on 12 June 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

The return is fun. Good times. Good kills. Nice shots. Maybe some new friends. Also, you get 10% bonus on c-bills and XP. If you play a couple hours a week til December, about 26 weeks or so, you end up (10 dollars / 52 hours) spending 19 cents an hour. Surely you can eke out more than 19 cents of fun per hour in this game?

If not, why are you still here?

I play my stocks for the long term. I don't need more friends. I have already put in for more than PGI deserved to not deliver what they said they would, meaning I learned from my own mistake.

I already sucked all the fun out of what PGI has to offer which is redundant mechs playing different game modes like TDM for 5 years now. Still here just in case in case PGI gets their head out of their arses so I don't take a total loss.

[Ghogiel]

OP compared MWOs grind to Warfarm which is a nasty RNG based grind.

You know, the game with drop rates as silly as 0.01% on a rare spawn enemy (ie vengeful revenant)

Edited by Ghogiel, 12 June 2016 - 01:13 PM.

[Lykaon]

feeWAIVER, on 11 June 2016 - 09:56 PM, said:

I buy mech packs..
You can get 3 mechs, including a hero, and 30 days premium for $20.
It's a good deal, and it supports the game.


But honestly, I don't think you even need premium, it's only a 40% bonus, which is substantial but it's not going to to make it a major grind...

I mean, if you consider the average match is only 10 minutes, you can rack up chills incredibly fast if you play good.

I have been playing steadily for 6 months, I've bought 5 or 6 mech packs, and I own about 63 mechs total.

I believe the gripe at hand assumes two things.

one: Spending zero real money
Two: Playing fewer than 6 hours a week

Now a counter point.

Free to play games essentially have two "real" forms of currency.

There is cash money spent to make purchases and then there is time invested to earn game currency for in game purchases.

And here is why this works this way.

If you spend REAL money the developers/publishers of the game are making money from users who do actually spend money.

If you do not spend REAL money then you are not directly making the game developers/publishers money.But you still serve a purpose towards earning them REAL money. If you are playing and investing time then you are participating and providing content in the form of a team mate or a target to other players (some of whom spend REAL money).

The objective now is not to get REAL money out of the tightwads who play 100% FREE it's to get them to be online supplying content for as long as possible to increase the appeal of playing for players who do spend REAL money.

Hence THE GRIND!

The balancing act is is having THE GRIND be enough to both keep the free players online as content for paying users yet be grindy enough to encourage spending REAL money to avoid it without discouraging the FREE players to the point that they leave and are no longer acting as content for paying users.

[Felbombling]

Pjwned, on 12 June 2016 - 10:31 AM, said:

As usual, the "other games are even worse" argument is a crock of **** and doesn't make MWO any less bad.

Find a similar game to compare MechWarrior: Online to, then. I thought War Thunder or World of Tanks were a good starting point. Not my fault that MW: O comes out looking good by comparison.

[JC Daxion]

Erufen, on 11 June 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

Not quite. Say for example I want to purchase a new mech and outfit it. The cost of it will be 8,000,000 credits. To raise said amount, at an average of 150,000 credits per match, you'd need roughly 54 matches.

Each match takes about 8 minutes. So that means that, to raise 8,000,000 credits, you'd need to invest 432 minutes, or about 7 hours.

The grind time is too high.

Or you could i dunno.. spend 80 bucks, and pick up clan resistance pack III, get 4 really cool mechs, and 3 variants each, and then just play them for months and months and have earned i dunno, 100-200m by that point and spent the whole summer, or 6+ months playing and having fun casually..

So wish i did that when i started my clan account, instead i spent 6 months grinding half the mechs in that pack, and bought some timbers..




As for grind pricing.. i have been playing for over 3 years now, and have close to 80 mechs, and spent around 160 dollars, hardly a big amount to invest.. and at this point i wish i spent a little more money on packs than i have, i'd be better off really..

[Nyte Kitsune]

Seriously OP.. Not worth spending money on? Why are you still here?

I love MWO, Sure it still needs some work, but its still fun, and I don't say this because I'm sitting on 60days Active Premium and over 1 Year banked (Yes, I said 1 year). The big packs you can buy on the website (Resistance, Resistance 2, Rifleman, Warhammer, etc.) all come with Banked Premium time and each mech pack typically has 1 with a 30% C-bill booster on one variant, which you can activate the Premium Time either all at once (In game) or in increments via the website. Mech packs and even the masterpacks are a good investment, and this coming from a guy that does NOT have a disposable income.

I work for minimum wage at a gas station, yet I can still afford to throw PGI a little something to support the game, so, whats your excuse, or are you actually one of those "I'm really too cheap to pay anything for a game." type of person that likes to ride the FTP bandwagons and not really support a game?

[Erufen]

Nyte Kitsune, on 12 June 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

Seriously OP.. Not worth spending money on? Why are you still here?

Not what I said whatsoever. Not sure who you are talking to.

Nyte Kitsune, on 12 June 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

I work for minimum wage at a gas station, yet I can still afford to throw PGI a little something to support the game, so, whats your excuse, or are you actually one of those "I'm really too cheap to pay anything for a game." type of person that likes to ride the FTP bandwagons and not really support a game?

Yes. I must be.

I've never backed any game ever.

My "excuse" is none of your business. I outlined the issue, which is what we are discussing here, in the OP.

Edited by Erufen, 12 June 2016 - 05:18 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Lykaon, on 12 June 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

I believe the gripe at hand assumes two things.

one: Spending zero real money
Two: Playing fewer than 6 hours a week

Now a counter point.

Free to play games essentially have two "real" forms of currency.

There is cash money spent to make purchases and then there is time invested to earn game currency for in game purchases.

And here is why this works this way.

If you spend REAL money the developers/publishers of the game are making money from users who do actually spend money.

If you do not spend REAL money then you are not directly making the game developers/publishers money.But you still serve a purpose towards earning them REAL money. If you are playing and investing time then you are participating and providing content in the form of a team mate or a target to other players (some of whom spend REAL money).

The objective now is not to get REAL money out of the tightwads who play 100% FREE it's to get them to be online supplying content for as long as possible to increase the appeal of playing for players who do spend REAL money.

Hence THE GRIND!

The balancing act is is having THE GRIND be enough to both keep the free players online as content for paying users yet be grindy enough to encourage spending REAL money to avoid it without discouraging the FREE players to the point that they leave and are no longer acting as content for paying users.

This is correct.

Many free to play AND pay to play games use the lvl grind OR the item grind to keep players playing and there for keep the game rolling along. I don't like this form of game design. Which is why I always applaud MechWarrior online for not relying on endless tier/lvl/item grinding to have its players entertained.

MechWarrior online is putting a lot of effort into faction play to try and create none grind entertainement and maybe Solaris some day and other avenues that do not rely on grind for entertainement OR sales.

Again this game is putting effort into creating none grind game design and is in comaparison free of lvl and item and tier grind to other games. Yet this is a topic saying to the contrary.....



This goes without saying but since a few here have never played MechWarrior Online it seems, I will explain.

TONS of effort has been put into balance making nearly ANY mech a player chooses a viable mech after being mastered and outfitted.

MechWarrior Online could have tiered their mechs~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But they didn't thankfully.

MechWarrior Online could have put the mechs and content behind a lvl grind, but they didn't!!!!!

Instead a player can say "Hey I like that weight and style of mech and think I will go for that one." and then use that mech to be at the top of the game. Awsome.

So is eliting and mastering a mech and outfitting it to be a top player if piloted right anywhere close to the grind of any other game? No.

Topic closed.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 June 2016 - 05:27 PM.

[Escef]

Erufen, on 11 June 2016 - 08:01 PM, said:

And honestly, starting small and going large is not an alternative, since the payout is marginally better. I am pulling around the same amount on a loss or a win (Marauder), regardless if the mech is big or small (I thought I had screenies of my KGC-000 and my JR7-IIC, but the point stands).

Results not typical:




Typical win income with premium time on a Conquest match for me is a little over 300k. No idea WTF is going on in your matches.

Erufen, on 11 June 2016 - 08:01 PM, said:

So then comes the alternative: Buy mechs with MC. And suddenly, the premise of paying up to $40 for ONE mech seems ludicrous.

The most expensive mech in the game is the Boar's Head Atlas, which only costs around $30.