I didn't like ghost heat; I think it's a terrible idea and I think power draw will be another terrible idea. I just want to play a FPS Battletech game like MW4 but with better graphics. I feel this hairbrained invention takes us further away from Battletech for no reason other than PGI's assumed hatred for Battletech rules and their combination of pride and arrogance that they assume they have all the answers and don't need any community input.
I know that power draw seems to be simply another Ghost heat mk. 2,5 but let's hope it's more intuitive at least. Any change from the "old" ghost heat is bound to be better. Still doesn't change the fact that alot of simpler solutions were suggested by the community countless times before. Let's wait and see how this is going to turn out.
Edited by PitchBlackYeti, 14 June 2016 - 03:15 AM.
That ins't even possible in the first place, because damage and position calculations are server side.
Cool story bro. With the silly no-name-and-shame policy intact its nothing but cool story.
I assume its server side because the end of round screen shows the damage, but the mechs in match don't. I'm not sure how it works only that it is used fairly often. The absolute worste I have seen ever was just the other day.
I assume its server side because the end of round screen shows the damage, but the mechs in match don't. I'm not sure how it works only that it is used fairly often. The absolute worste I have seen ever was just the other day.
And your average ping to the server you are playing on is ?
In Battletech there are 3 ways a mech is penalized for heat.
1- Power Shutdown, and depending on how hot it was when it would be able to restart.
2- Maneuverability and Malfunctions, basically heat put wear on your mech slowing you down and sometimes causing weapons to not work properly.
3- Damage and Explosion, if you override you took damage to your engine and its protective shielding ... eventually the shielding is gone and the mech goes super nova.
In my opinion these penalties are not enforced enough or severely enough now. You see many just go in override and never take it out and just cycle through it taking little to no damage even though at 100% heat. I also see on regular bases people get shut down and then not even a second later back up and running. Lastly there is no penalty for maneuverability or malfunctions in the game, and so hopefully this new system incorporates these in.
I know that power draw seems to be simply another Ghost heat mk. 2,5 but let's hope it's more intuitive at least. Any change from the "old" ghost heat is bound to be better. Still doesn't change the fact that alot of simpler solutions were suggested by the community countless times before. Let's wait and see how this is going to turn out.
I am not sure what to think of what may or may not be done with heat/power draw or what ever.
But I assume as a matter of course an 80's table top fire control system would translate poorly to a 2016 computer sim. The theory of having such a fire control system like heat is sound. Details very likely need work.
Even if I never played this game before it would be a good guess right?
Six pages of hopes and dreams, assumptions and assertions, on a system we know absolutely ZERO about. How long ago was this proposed? How much has PGI told us about this complete reworking of a core aspect of the game?
This is the problem. Not the system, whatever it is and how ever it works. When this drops -seemingly out of the blue- into the game, most players are going to go nuts, simply because it is different that what they were used to and no one has bothered to tell them about it.
Sarcasm font on> Hey don't worry I am sure they will post an online tutorial explaining it!? <font off
PGI could address all of this angst by actually discussing this here (I know, I know, they won't because we are all so toxic, etc.) or maybe even talk at us and give us some reason to believe, or even god forbid try and get us excited about this change (put out some demo vids showing how it works in theory or practice (they're testing it right, right?)).
Odds on any of that happening?
Gonna be fun reading around here when it drops, however it ends up working.
In my opinion these penalties are not enforced enough or severely enough now. You see many just go in override and never take it out and just cycle through it taking little to no damage even though at 100% heat. I also see on regular bases people get shut down and then not even a second later back up and running. Lastly there is no penalty for maneuverability or malfunctions in the game, and so hopefully this new system incorporates these in.
Are you implying there are people who don´t toggle Override on?
Six pages of hopes and dreams, assumptions and assertions, on a system we know absolutely ZERO about. How long ago was this proposed? How much has PGI told us about this complete reworking of a core aspect of the game?
This is the problem. Not the system, whatever it is and how ever it works. When this drops -seemingly out of the blue- into the game, most players are going to go nuts, simply because it is different that what they were used to and no one has bothered to tell them about it.
Sarcasm font on> Hey don't worry I am sure they will post an online tutorial explaining it!? <font off
PGI could address all of this angst by actually discussing this here (I know, I know, they won't because we are all so toxic, etc.) or maybe even talk at us and give us some reason to believe, or even god forbid try and get us excited about this change (put out some demo vids showing how it works in theory or practice (they're testing it right, right?)).
Odds on any of that happening?
Gonna be fun reading around here when it drops, however it ends up working.
As you stat this is a, "core aspect of the game". We most likely will see player test server on this since it is a core aspect and from that we will get the majority of the information. So better yet some one should tweet Russ and ask him if there are any intended test servers for this.
Are you implying there are people who don´t toggle Override on?
I never do ... I know I should because it would make this game easier but I just never reach across the keyboard to do so. Instead I try not to overheat at all.
Six pages of hopes and dreams, assumptions and assertions, on a system we know absolutely ZERO about. How long ago was this proposed? How much has PGI told us about this complete reworking of a core aspect of the game?
This is the problem. Not the system, whatever it is and how ever it works. When this drops -seemingly out of the blue- into the game, most players are going to go nuts, simply because it is different that what they were used to and no one has bothered to tell them about it.
Sarcasm font on> Hey don't worry I am sure they will post an online tutorial explaining it!? <font off
PGI could address all of this angst by actually discussing this here (I know, I know, they won't because we are all so toxic, etc.) or maybe even talk at us and give us some reason to believe, or even god forbid try and get us excited about this change (put out some demo vids showing how it works in theory or practice (they're testing it right, right?)).
Odds on any of that happening?
Gonna be fun reading around here when it drops, however it ends up working.
I think they have mentioned a few things over the past few months so that they can say they did and that a few things were not a total surprise or unannounced.
*Tin foil diaper and beanie at the ready* "Better safe than sorry."
Are you implying there are people who don´t toggle Override on?
I'm still curious when they made it a toggle? It is now stupid simple to override.
I liked the system where you had to press override (and only for the next 5sec) - before you reach 100%
Much better feeling, like "activating" berserk
Of course a a light player the toggle is the better way - either you die because of random or you die because you overheat and get riped in seconds
Anyhow: a good heat mechanic wouldn't cause damage at 100%
First the override would be necessary to hit at 75% or lower - with decreasing time intervall the higher your heat gets
Last not least it wouldn't damage your Mech instantly - so when you have the heatsinks (Warhawk Prime) there shouldn't be a problem to go into "heat credit" for a brief period - instead of having this "wall of random gib"
As you stat this is a, "core aspect of the game". We most likely will see player test server on this since it is a core aspect and from that we will get the majority of the information. So better yet some one should tweet Russ and ask him if there are any intended test servers for this.
I surely hope you are correct, but I wouldn't bet on those test servers. No need to test when they "overcame the technical hurdle in the design" and since, after all they know what's best. For me, I am just happy that Russ is deigning to at least field some undoubtedly pointed and hard hitting questions about this in a future town hall.
(NGNG): So Russ, you mentioned on twitter that the new "energy draw" system is looking good, yeah? Technical hurdles all over come?
(Russ) Yes. It is looking great. in other exciting news let me tell you about the new Nightstar mech!
(NGNG): Wow that looks great! Another great addition to the game! I'll drink to that. Thanks for watching folks!
I'm for anything that reduces the high damage alpha strike gameplay and it cannot come soon enough. I am rather skeptical of the power draw system, only because I have seen many great posts detailing exactly how it would work and benefit the game, but Russ will want to put his spin on it so that it appears to be his idea. Beyond that, they could have just implemented a working heat system into the game with heat penalties to Mech performance when the heat threshold was breeched. If only there was a concept already in game that could accomplish that...
If only there was a concept already in game that could accomplish that...
There is a concept: what happens when you loose your ST on a Clan XL?
Shouldn't be that hard to use heat as trigger mechanism.
(not to mention that there are quirks)
LocationIn the Mechlab, adding more Double Heatsinks.
Posted 14 June 2016 - 04:29 AM
I do not realy like ghost heat due to all the problems it has with balance and everything.
I just hope that Powerdraw will be a better way to limit multiple weapon system alphas which are far greater than just boating, even tho it does take more skill to pull them of.
I mean, Novas are historically known as a mech that carries more weapons that it can keep firing, but that's why alpha-strikes exist.. and Novas shutdown after they alpha-strike.
First, most mechs would shut down after an alpha strike in the source material. Pilots doing it usually pass out, even in mechs with sufficient cooking in tabletop to handle it. This is because a true alpha strike is all weapons at once. A tabletop "alpha strike" is a fun way to say "I am using all of my weapons in this 10 seconds of battle.". And over ten seconds they are fired either in small groups of two or three or sequentially but never at the same time (and there are special rules for handling a true alpha strike which usually results in a shutdown and cancels out the target's attacks, and with the heatsink taxation rule you also blow out a few heatsinks if the total heat generated surpasses your total heatsinks.
Second, the Nova carries so many lasers for three reasons. To still have weapons after through armor crits and lbx. To have the ability to fire even while another set of lasers is cooling off. And to be able to focus more damage in roughly the same area (lore reason; it takes several shots to deliver the full devastation of 7 damage per laser but it fires 6 of them at once so that each time they hit the total is a devastating 7 without having to make repeated hits on the same spot unlike most mechs with lasers.).
Yes to deliver damage because over ten seconds each laser only deals 7 damage; not 21. The total damage a Nova can do in ten seconds with an alpha strike in tabletop is 84 damage. In that time they could do is 152 in MWO. In tabletop, it is 60 heat and yeah that mech would shut down. In MWO it is 64 heat and without ghost heat, the Nova could have done this twice in order to shut down!! This is because heatsink threshold has been erroneously added to mech threshold in addition to cooling. In basic tabletop heatsink threshold doesn't exist, just mech threshold (add heat against limit of 30) and cooling (remove heat by x amount in this 10 second slice, compare re!aiming heat against scale punishments, apply next round). In advanced tabletop, heatsink threshold exists as an entirely different mechanic, if you surpassed the limit it had within 10 seconds you have a chance of losing heatsinks via melting, lost coolant (evaporation, leaks) or other means.
-----
With that cleared up.
Power draw may not be a tabletop mechanic but it is a lore mechanic. I have mixed opinions on it and would seriously prefer that PGI fixed mech threshold as a separate entity from heatsink threshold and implement them correctly to control high heat alpha strikes of laser vomit and this ******** here.
(When is the last time Betty told you heatsinks were destroyed? They are not destroyed by heat anymore!! Wait for the ppc, back then ppc cool down as 3 seconds and heat was 8... 35 ppcs in 18 seconds on a mech with just 10 doubles. And back then it was more punishing than it is now, as ghost heat required heat penalties to be softer and has removed things like heatsink melting!
In tabletop, this is impossible. In lore not even a warship could pull this off. Yet I did before the game would stop me.
After fixing the heat system, then we can use a power draw system to take care of the remaining closet cases.
So while I welcome a power draw system, I know it won't mean much unless the heat system is fixed too. Heat needs to have meaning.
In Battletech there are 3 ways a mech is penalized for heat.
1- Power Shutdown, and depending on how hot it was when it would be able to restart.
2- Maneuverability and Malfunctions, basically heat put wear on your mech slowing you down and sometimes causing weapons to not work properly.
3- Damage and Explosion, if you override you took damage to your engine and its protective shielding ... eventually the shielding is gone and the mech goes super nova.
In my opinion these penalties are not enforced enough or severely enough now. You see many just go in override and never take it out and just cycle through it taking little to no damage even though at 100% heat. I also see on regular bases people get shut down and then not even a second later back up and running. Lastly there is no penalty for maneuverability or malfunctions in the game, and so hopefully this new system incorporates these in.
In tabletop there is also the pilot him or herself. Too much heat you get blackouts, thermal stroke, and eventual death from being broiled alive. How about the effect having the screen go dim or dark? The more overheats the more likely you just kill yourself. Could even add a pilot skill tree.
What frustrates me about the power draw debate is that players who support the concept continue to point to example mechanics that are clearly different from what PGI has in mind - based on what little we know about the system.
Remember that PGI's vision for power draw originally required so much server resources that it was going to destroy hit reg. No system ever described by players would have required server resources to function. Ideas like limiting output by applying heat penalties if firing more than X amount of damage would be a 100% client-side system.
So all we can guess at this time is... whatever PGI is trying to do, it's NOT what players are asking for and arguing in favor of.
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Johnny Z, on 14 June 2016 - 02:56 AM, said:
