819 replies to this topic

[mogs01gt]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 June 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

No it didn't, there was never a power draw system in lore ever.

Yes there was.

Examples
The Gauss drew energy from the engine, once you used it a few times, it limited your ability to fire multiple weapons.

Mechs had to slow their pace down from max speed in order to prevent from over heating when firing their weapons.

That is all power draw.

[dervishx5]

mogs01gt, on 14 June 2016 - 05:09 PM, said:

Yes there was.

Examples
The Gauss drew energy from the engine, once you used it a few times, it limited your ability to fire multiple weapons.

Mechs had to slow their pace down from max speed in order to prevent from over heating when firing their weapons.

That is all power draw.

The gauss thing is false. If it's in a novel it's just there for flair. There is no rule regarding this at all.

But the speed thing is true. Moving generated heat.

[Gas Guzzler]

DAYLEET, on 14 June 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

Why do you single out ballistic? of all the weapon being "boated", ballistic is the least of my problem because 3 mech can do it and they arent making the other mech of the same class obsolete, they have strong deficiencies. Where light/meds srms and heavy lasers boaters pretty much obsolete every other mech of the same class. It's really dumb that the easiest way to play is also the best.

Because ballistic boats are very dominant right now. Removing alpha strikes will make them overly so and will kick any energy boat in the nuts. It doesn't matter how many different mechs can do it, all the heavies on the team can be the same if they wanted to.

Seriously, Black Widow, Mauler, Kodiak, are all top tier mechs that beat out laser boats in most situations.

AND OMG, heavy laser boats do NOT obsolete other mechs. That is straight up 100% false. There are brawlers and ballistic boats in both the heavy and assault classes that are some of the best mechs in their class.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 14 June 2016 - 05:24 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

I'm looking forward to the new system. It makes sense and has always made sense. Energy weapons use power. Ammunition based weapons use power to feed ammo and move the weapon gimbals. And, this acts like a pseudo heat scale.

Now, all we need are heat penalties when you exceed 50% of your heat max and we're cooking with fusion created ionized gas!

dervishx5, on 14 June 2016 - 05:16 PM, said:

The gauss thing is false. If it's in a novel it's just there for flair. There is no rule regarding this at all.

But the speed thing is true. Moving generated heat.

No, there is no rule. But, the power draw on a rail gun is extreme. Now, it should be assumed that a fusion reactor put into a mech would have enough power to make it move at flank speed and fire all of its weapons. That isn't to say that it should be able to feed all of that at once and without any sort of side effects. I always thought that Gauss Rifles should have caused a "brown out" effect for a few seconds after firing, to signify the power drain. It would have been cosmetic only, of course, but more immersion factors would have been nice.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 14 June 2016 - 05:33 PM.

[dervishx5]

Trauglodyte, on 14 June 2016 - 05:24 PM, said:

No, there is no rule. But, the power draw on a rail gun is extreme. Now, it should be assumed that a fusion reactor put into a mech would have enough power to make it move at flank speed and fire all of its weapons. That isn't to say that it should be able to feed all of that at once and without any sort of side effects. I always thought that Gauss Rifles should have caused a "brown out" effect for a few seconds after firing, to signify the power drain. It would have been cosmetic only, of course, but more immersion factors would have been nice.

Fun fact: charge up a gauss in your mech in MWO and pay close attention to your monitors.

[InspectorG]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 June 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

Because, this isn't a fighting game nor is it built remotely like one.

Yeah, its not. But people already set their Weapon Groups in combos to keep DPS while hot, its not that different of an idea. Im not advocating chain combo and stuff like that.

dervishx5, on 14 June 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

Does the OP really think that PGI gives a **** what the community wants?

All the Pillars. Soon™.

[MechWarrior319348]

I think I'll probably be done with the game when they implement it. I've had years of fun, and I dont really feel like going through more balance transitions.

Time to move on I think. Its just... meh. Feel satisfied and done with the game.

[Pjwned]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 June 2016 - 04:52 PM, said:

No, it needs to know the position of your LOCKED target so it knows what distance the shot should converge on.

That's what it already does right now though, the only difference is that it always does that regardless of locks or not.

The only added burden to HSR is checking for target locks because what you're saying right here is what already happens currently.

Quote

Depends on how target locks and shots are handled.

Projectile weapons (PPCs, ACs, gauss rifle, SRMs) would not be a problem because the distance they are converged at is determined when they are fired, so they wouldn't be affected by this.

Like I said lasers could still be a potential problem depending on how their convergence would be affected by changes in target lock status.

I don't know what issues machine guns or flamers would present for HSR with a lock-based convergence system, but presumably they would just be left alone.

Quote

Because it adds extra computations, when the servers already have trouble with a tick rate of 30.

"Extra computations" is only a problem when it has a measurable impact.

[DAYLEET]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 June 2016 - 05:23 PM, said:

Because ballistic boats are very dominant right now. Removing alpha strikes will make them overly so and will kick any energy boat in the nuts. It doesn't matter how many different mechs can do it, all the heavies on the team can be the same if they wanted to.

Seriously, Black Widow, Mauler, Kodiak, are all top tier mechs that beat out laser boats in most situations.

I dont have a problem with ballistic being dominant. I really dont see what the problem is with those weapons.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pjwned, on 14 June 2016 - 06:26 PM, said:

That's what it already does right now though, the only difference is that it always does that regardless of locks or not.

The only added burden to HSR is checking for target locks because what you're saying right here is what already happens currently.

Where exactly was this explained, because the is unnecessary data for HSR to keep track of? Or is this just an assumption?

Pjwned, on 14 June 2016 - 06:26 PM, said:

Projectile weapons (PPCs, ACs, gauss rifle, SRMs) would not be a problem because the distance they are converged at is determined when they are fired, so they wouldn't be affected by this.

I understand that.......the point is, that if the time you lock a target is desynced from the time you fire, there would be a problem, not sure whether this would be an issue, but depends on how the netcode handles that (of which we know little of).

Pjwned, on 14 June 2016 - 06:26 PM, said:

I don't know what issues machine guns or flamers would present for HSR with a lock-based convergence system, but presumably they would just be left alone.

Since all of those are hitscan, yes, they would be affected just like lasers.

Pjwned, on 14 June 2016 - 06:26 PM, said:

"Extra computations" is only a problem when it has a measurable impact.

Vector computations aren't necessarily cheap when you are talking milliseconds.

[dervishx5]

Sentence by sentence quoting is bad forum etiquette, Quick. You know better than that.

[Gas Guzzler]

DAYLEET, on 14 June 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

I dont have a problem with ballistic being dominant. I really dont see what the problem is with those weapons.

What happened to balance?

What is the problem with Clan lasers? Why can't they be balanced instead of mediocre?

I don't see why ballistics get to be stronger than other weapons?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 14 June 2016 - 07:20 PM.

[wanderer]

mogs01gt, on 14 June 2016 - 05:09 PM, said:

Yes there was.

Examples
The Gauss drew energy from the engine, once you used it a few times, it limited your ability to fire multiple weapons.

Mechs had to slow their pace down from max speed in order to prevent from over heating when firing their weapons.

That is all power draw.

The first has never been a rule in tabletop. Ever. It was fluff. In one book. For a 'Mech that happened to be impossible to make legal to begin with. Poor Vlad, a total cheater!

The second was part of an actual, functional overheat system. PGI is still using the system from the alpha build, with the added lulz of having taken out the part where your ammo explodes around 90% heat or so. Too much heat makes a 'Mechs muscles- myomer - stiffen and become less efficient, thus too much heat not only slowed your 'Mech, but made it tougher to aim as your giant robot started moving even it's weapons like someone had replaced the lubricant with superglue and given the pilot a case of the shakes...if MWO had actually modeled that.

(Ironically, triple strength myomer gets MORE efficient when heated to a point that regular weapon systems find a mite less so, but we don't have THAT in MWO either. Again, insufficiently complex heat system!)

For that matter, they didn't even finish modeling actuators. Or proper engines. Or gyros. Or damage to any of them.

Energy draw is global ghost heat. It doesn't improve the system, it simply gets rid of the current grouping arrangement in favor of adding up X amount of "power" per weapon before ghost heat kicks in. The game doesn't change, Paul simply shuffled the cards.

Edited by wanderer, 14 June 2016 - 09:13 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

dervishx5, on 14 June 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

Sentence by sentence quoting is bad forum etiquette, Quick. You know better than that.

Meh.

[Andi Nagasia]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 June 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

What happened to balance?

What is the problem with Clan lasers? Why can't they be balanced instead of mediocre?

I don't see why ballistics get to be stronger than other weapons?

i still dont see how Ballistics will get Stronger with Power Draw?

[Mcgral18]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 June 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

i still dont see how Ballistics will get Stronger with Power Draw?

They won't be any weaker, while everything else is, thus their relative power level rises

[MechPorn]

If it balances out the weapons....yes. If it makes obsolete chassis balanced with the meta ones....yes.

[Carl Vickers]

Thats just it, it doesnt balance out the weapons, ballistics are given the same value, power wise, as lazors.

Lets hope PGI relise that due to being limited to ammo, ballistics need to be given a lesser value than lazors.

Yes TTK will go up but only because peeps are firing 30 points in alpha form, then another 30 points in alpha form .5 seconds later. Methinks macros will become a big thing.

[TheLuc]

I finally saw the video of how the power draw system works, from what a seen its really just ghost heat mk2.

instead of a certain amount of a weapon type generating extra heat, it affects all weapons with a small green bar next to the heat one so you actually see how it affects the heat scale. I don't think it will change much from what we already have, just have to chain fire as usual.

What a waste of resources, player retention is what is needed, PvE, solo and coop missions against an AI that will bring in players. Keeping this game PVP only just kills it.

[Crushko]

Mechwarrior shouldnt be about peaking around a corner firing a big Alpha and go hiding.
Actually Light/Mediums should eventually do this, but not Heavys/Assaults. They should brawl.

Having to fire weapon groups in sequences will bring more brawling to this game. More skill because even with only a 0.5 seconds delay hitting the same hit zone takes more skill, especially if there is movement.

On top of that we also get rid of artificial Meta Builds like 3 LPL, 3 MPL. Now we can eventually bring 4 LPLs at the same heat. It feels more natural.