819 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

Mudhutwarrior, on 14 August 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

I base any future actions on past results.

So yes I have zero faith this will work.

This guy must never get any accurate reading ever in his life, if this post defines how his logical processes work.

[Andi Nagasia]

BLOOD WOLF, on 14 August 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

This guy must never get any accurate reading ever in his life, if this post defines how his logical processes work.

his Thinking is logical, im hoping MudHut is wrong, and that we get something truly exiting,
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 14 August 2016 - 08:06 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

BLOOD WOLF, on 14 August 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

This guy must never get any accurate reading ever in his life, if this post defines how his logical processes work.

Nothing makes sense to a true believer in unicorns.

Andi Nagasia, on 14 August 2016 - 08:06 AM, said:

his Thinking is logical, im hoping MudHut is wrong, and that we get something truly exiting,
Edit- Spelling

I hope I am wrong too. May seem like negative nancy but only because I know it can be so much better.

[Kirkland Langue]

What build is this system trying to prevent that the current system doesn't do a good enough job of preventing?
What build is this system attempting to allow which the current system prevents?

[Mudhutwarrior]

Kirkland Langue, on 14 August 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

What build is this system trying to prevent that the current system doesn't do a good enough job of preventing?
What build is this system attempting to allow which the current system prevents?

I don't think anyone at PGI knows. Then again I side with the convergence crowd and PGI will have no part in that.

[Andi Nagasia]

Kirkland Langue, on 14 August 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

What build is this system trying to prevent that the current system doesn't do a good enough job of preventing?
What build is this system attempting to allow which the current system prevents?

preventing 6CMPL + 2CLPL and like 74Damage Alphas that circumvent GH,
allowing 3PPC and 3CER-LL(almost) like Builds that currently suffer from Huge GH,

[Davers]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 August 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

This is the problem though. They will not become good again. Everyone will shift to the next best thing, the next best way to put out whatever the arbitrary damage limit is. Want a good Orion? You can put an AC20 and 3 SRM6s with Artemis on the VA and go to town with it as long as you can get into a brawl. Mixed builds occur, its just typically a mix of 2 different weapon types. Mixing a third in is typically not as desirable as more ammo or heatsinks.

Won't energy draw kill this build? You couldn't fire more than 2 srm6 without penalty, and the ac 20 would have to be seperate as well.

[BluefireMW]

The most important thing about any new system is just, not to leave exceptions.
All have to be part of it and not the people crying most are not involved or get a special.

Edited by BluefireMW, 14 August 2016 - 08:29 AM.

[BluefireMW]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 August 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

preventing 6CMPL + 2CLPL and like 74Damage Alphas that circumvent GH,
allowing 3PPC and 3CER-LL(almost) like Builds that currently suffer from Huge GH,

Great you got the Clan Weapons. How about 3 ER Large and 6 MP Inner Sphere?
Or 3 Large Pulse and 6 Med Laser?

[Gas Guzzler]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 August 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

how does hide warrior have nothing to do with Alphas?
doesnt it have everything to do with alphas? Poke -> Alpha -> Hide -> repeat?
most mechs have over 30damage alpha, why poke if your not gonna poke with all your weapons?

How about poke, Dakka repeatedly until it looks like someone takes notice, then hide again?

So yeah, it's not quite all about alphas.

BluefireMW, on 14 August 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

The most important thing about any new system is just, not to leave exceptions.
All have to be part of it and not the people crying most are not involved or get a special.

So maintaining balance isn't important then? I fail to see how nuking alpha playstyles but letting non alpha playstyles like dakka do whatever they want will be good for the game. The DPS game along with smaller alphas (30 damage) plus DPS weapons are already making a strong showing edging out high alpha laser vomit. This system just takes the high alpha laser vomit and makes it non viable. The result is worse balance than before. That should never be the goal.

[Andi Nagasia]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 August 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

How about poke, Dakka repeatedly until it looks like someone takes notice, then hide again?

So yeah, it's not quite all about alphas.

im hoping theres a bar that fills, or the reset is made to take that into account,
that way DPS Dakka only builds wont out right dominate,

[Kirkland Langue]

Seems like an utter waste of time and development resources to me.

Nobody expects that they'll "nail it", and actually emerge with a system that is widely regarded as balanced; which means that we'll almost certainly be in the exact same situation that we are in now: People complaining about balance and some builds being too strong; and it sounds like the true meta builds will not only still remain: but will actually become stronger.

3xERPPCs are desirable? PPC poptarting is already prevalent - and the goal of an entire new system is to actually make this build stronger?

I'd much much much rather PGI just spit out a few more maps, over the next couple months, than waste that time on a new Heat System. If they are really confident that the new system is going to be a huge improvement to the current one: go for it, but if the system doesn't live up to some unrealistic expectation - then either it's going to show that PGI is awful at prioritization; or it shows that PGI is clueless.

[Johnny Z]

First of all this is a great idea.

Second, the tricky part no one has mentioned is that they will maybe have to reduce heat sink effectiveness.

As far as I can tell the heat system is staying.... Power draw will enforce cooler running builds.

So Power Draw front end, Heat back end.... This still leaves cool shot as useful as well.

Edited by Johnny Z, 14 August 2016 - 09:38 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 August 2016 - 08:40 AM, said:

im hoping theres a bar that fills, or the reset is made to take that into account,
that way DPS Dakka only builds wont out right dominate,

I think like others have said, this power draw will limit alphas but allow chain firing. DPS wont change significantly, it just prohibits giant alphas.

Of course this is all guess work.

Also the botters will not be happy about this. Metrics will show them almost instantly if they try maintain max DPS. They may be able to hide through RNG but its getting to the point they are better off just being a good player.

If it does all work like this, do jump jets and or movement speed play a role in this at all?

Edited by Johnny Z, 14 August 2016 - 09:53 AM.

[xe N on]

A system that punishes huge alpha strikes is a good thing and might give a overall balance of weight classes as well clan vs. IS. In the end, that system could make quirks unnecessary.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

more mechs with diversity of armaments.

We'll probably get it timed with the Huntsman.

Edited by Mechwarrior1441491, 14 August 2016 - 02:21 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mechwarrior1441491, on 14 August 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

more mechs with diversity of armaments.

We'll probably get it timed with the Huntsman.

Nothing PGI has described regarding energy draw remotely encourages "diverse armaments". Literally nothing.

[Gas Guzzler]

I think the only thing they can possibly do to encourage "diverse armaments" is literally have an energy draw system for each weapon type. So a separate one for each of ballistics, energy weapons, and missiles, but again, this punishes mechs that only have access to one type of hardpoint, particularly energy and missile mechs.

[pyrocomp]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 August 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

I think the only thing they can possibly do to encourage "diverse armaments" is literally have an energy draw system for each weapon type. So a separate one for each of ballistics, energy weapons, and missiles, but again, this punishes mechs that only have access to one type of hardpoint, particularly energy and missile mechs.

But those can have thier own different cap via quirks (or fluff-like explanation why CPLT can boat LRMs).

UPD: or limiting quirks to affect just stock weapons of 'signature' weapons and only in a specific location/quantity.

Edited by pyrocomp, 14 August 2016 - 04:59 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 August 2016 - 03:45 PM, said:

Nothing PGI has described regarding energy draw remotely encourages "diverse armaments". Literally nothing.

True. Like you said, it does nothing to encourage or force diverse load outs. It also evens the playing field for mechs that need to use diverse load outs... or maybe more importantly, those that want to use diverse load outs will not be punished as heavily.

Diverse load outs will still be more challenging to use, but again, less punishing.

I prefer at most 2 different weapons groups. But if someone wants 3, cool, they are better off than they were.

What power draw may also do is encourage load outs with multiple ranges. This is where mech like the Nova can come out ahead by maxing its power draw friendly short range punch and then having a secondary medium or long range capability.

Also, no one knows any official details of this, so maybe power draw is something completely different to what everyone is guessing about.

Edited by Johnny Z, 14 August 2016 - 08:37 PM.