819 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Hotthedd, on 12 August 2016 - 06:19 PM, said:

but the technology to make them is barely understood enough to keep making them, much less improve them. They are machines that are not easily destroyed, even by other 'mechs.

That is 3025 era, jihad era is a bit different since improvements were being made all the time and mechs were common compared to the "family heirloom" era of 3025. They are easily destroyed just as they are easily replaced in that era.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 August 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

That is 3025 era, jihad era is a bit different since improvements were being made all the time and mechs were common compared to the "family heirloom" era of 3025. They are easily destroyed just as they are easily replaced in that era.

Yeonne Greene, on 12 August 2016 - 11:15 PM, said:

You know, the fun part about battleships is that they went to all big-gun configurations because having the typical heavy-primary and light-secondary lacked synergy. The splashes just made calling fall of shot difficult, and the small guns were useless at the ranges the big guns could still do work while the big guns were even more dangerous at ranges where the small ones could finally be threatening.

They figured out that boating was the best way to boat.

Ironically, though, secondaries were reintroduced over time...pretty much entirely for dealing with aircraft.

FupDup, on 12 August 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

Just look at that crutch-hugging tryhard, he's supposed to be doing the honorable thing by chain-firing all of those guns!

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 12 August 2016 - 06:41 PM, said:

See... there is TT, then there are the books. A 600m shot in a modern vehicle firing weapons simultaneously is nothing. Literally child's play.

So are you trying to base this game off the books, which many are wildly conflicting, or the board game itself?



USS Iowa says "hi"

You guys just need to accept that you are wrong and he is right. Nothing else is acceptable.

[Johnny Z]

39 pages for this topic. Proof that everyone wants Power Draw.

[Gas Guzzler]

Johnny Z, on 13 August 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

39 pages for this topic. Proof that everyone wants Power Draw.

Most of the posts are anti-power draw.

[pyrocomp]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 August 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

Most of the posts are anti-power draw.

While this may be true (arguably) can you say the same about most posters (unique, without double count of you and Quicksilver)?

[LowSubmarino]

My mechs and builds laugh about some pathetic energy draw hehe.

They are impervious to such nonsense hehehe

[Andi Nagasia]

Johnny Z, on 13 August 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

39 pages for this topic. Proof that everyone wants Power Draw.

Gas Guzzler, on 13 August 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

Most of the posts are anti-power draw.

its controversial, which means it holds peoples interest,
until we know about how it will work it will remain a Hot Topic,

[AntleredCormorant]

Is the point just to make people stop using lasers/PPC? A power limit shouldn't do much to weapons that are basically self-powered like an autocannon shell or missile.

If it's really about TTK I agree with others that've said it'd be much easier and less disruptive to simply increase the value of armor. However if the purpose is to kill the stacked laser meta then introducing wattage or whatever makes sense.

Generally speaking I am against kludged mechanics meant to police style of play.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

AntleredCormorant, on 13 August 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

However if the purpose is to kill the stacked laser meta then introducing wattage or whatever makes sense.

This is the purpose, despite lasers not being dominant anymore.

[FupDup]

AntleredCormorant, on 13 August 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

Is the point just to make people stop using lasers/PPC? A power limit shouldn't do much to weapons that are basically self-powered like an autocannon shell or missile.

If it's really about TTK I agree with others that've said it'd be much easier and less disruptive to simply increase the value of armor. However if the purpose is to kill the stacked laser meta then introducing wattage or whatever makes sense.

Generally speaking I am against kludged mechanics meant to police style of play.

The motivation was to basically extend the idea of Ghost Heat (can't alpha strike the same weapon group over a certain damage limit) to nearly every weapon type (probably excludes MGs and stuff). In particular, it was also meant to link together every weapon type so that Ghost Heat couldn't be sidestepped anymore.

For example, PPCs and Gauss or PPCs and AC/5 were the new combo after the quad PPC Stalker got killed by Ghost Heat. Power Draw ("Ghost Power") tries to prevent combos like that which bypass the current system. Another example would be combined Clan LPL and ERML, although that one has fallen out of favor a while ago. The Gauss Rifle in general is one of the main targets of Ghost Power, since PGI didn't want to give the Gauss any Ghost Heat because of TT tradition for Gauss being heatless.

Note that I'm not really defending it, just explaining it.

[Johnny Z]

FupDup, on 13 August 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

The motivation was to basically extend the idea of Ghost Heat (can't alpha strike the same weapon group over a certain damage limit) to nearly every weapon type (probably excludes MGs and stuff). In particular, it was also meant to link together every weapon type so that Ghost Heat couldn't be sidestepped anymore.

For example, PPCs and Gauss or PPCs and AC/5 were the new combo after the quad PPC Stalker got killed by Ghost Heat. Power Draw ("Ghost Power") tries to prevent combos like that which bypass the current system. Another example would be combined Clan LPL and ERML, although that one has fallen out of favor a while ago. The Gauss Rifle in general is one of the main targets of Ghost Power, since PGI didn't want to give the Gauss any Ghost Heat because of TT tradition for Gauss being heatless.

Note that I'm not really defending it, just explaining it.

Go ahead defend it. Its good for the game. Looks like its coming in anyway. 100 point alphas getting leashed is good. Regardless of the complete nonsense to the contrary. Gas Guzzler isn't even serious anyway, hes having fun trolling this knowing full well its good for the game.

[FupDup]

Johnny Z, on 13 August 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Go ahead defend it. Its good for the game. Looks like its coming in anyway. 100 point alphas getting leashed is good. Regardless of the complete nonsense to the contrary. Gas Guzzler isn't even serious anyway, hes having fun trolling this knowing full well its good for the game.

The primary issue is that PGI is going to put a leash on alphas much smaller than "100 points." If Ghost Heat is anything to go by, the magic number will probably be somewhere around 30.

The reason this is an issue is that if the alpha is capped too low, then dakka builds will reign supreme since they have low alpha strikes (immune to Ghost Power) but high rate of fire to compensate for it.

Basically, Ghost Power might have been okayish if Pea Gee Eye wasn't in charge of it. But since they are in charge of it...

[AntleredCormorant]

Rouken Vordermark, on 13 August 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

This is the purpose, despite lasers not being dominant anymore.

I still face plenty of laser vomit & boat ML's myself, but I'm just a low-tier scrub.

That being said. I'm not sure what they're trying to fix is actually broken.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

AntleredCormorant, on 13 August 2016 - 05:01 PM, said:

I still face plenty of laser vomit & boat ML's myself, but I'm just a low-tier scrub.

That being said. I'm not sure what they're trying to fix is actually broken.

They're not a bad option, and the uncertainty of the map selection makes mid range builds (of which most laser boats are) more desirable.

[Johnny Z]

How soon this will be in game is the big question.

Edited by Johnny Z, 14 August 2016 - 01:26 AM.

[Navid A1]

I'm really eager to test it before I give judgement.
Knowing PGI, it will most likely has to be heavily tweaked in order to be ready for implementation.
And again knowing PGI they will probably tweak it in the exact opposite way that the community will suggest.

[Crushko]

No, we dont want energy draw.

If there are no alpha strikes, dakka gets too strong. Also the Hidewarrior Meta has nothing to do with alphas, but with too high (de-) acceleration.

Edited by Crushko, 14 August 2016 - 01:49 AM.

[Kalleballe]

Yes I want power draw.

Werther it will be better depends entirely on tuning.

[Andi Nagasia]

Crushko, on 14 August 2016 - 01:35 AM, said:

No, we dont want energy draw.

If there are no alpha strikes, dakka gets too strong. Also the Hidewarrior Meta has nothing to do with alphas, but with too high (de-) acceleration.

how does hide warrior have nothing to do with Alphas?
doesnt it have everything to do with alphas? Poke -> Alpha -> Hide -> repeat?
most mechs have over 30damage alpha, why poke if your not gonna poke with all your weapons?

[Mudhutwarrior]

I base any future actions on past results.

So yes I have zero faith this will work.