819 replies to this topic

[Stone Wall]

I don't like the idea of energy draw. So you guys are saying Alphas would be capped at 30? If you could Alpha up to 30 and not shut down, that would hurt larger mechs.

[Bud Crue]

Johnny Z, on 10 August 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

Mechs and sci-fi and even retro huge vehicles are huge now. Massive, and going into the next few years for sure. Like 100% for sure.

Mechs in both of these trailers.
There is a new Star Wars film coming each and every year for the next few years and no less than 5 studios working on Star Wars games according to Gamespot.

"Mechs" as you use the word in the context of the clips you present above, are generic. Mechs, that is to say: giant futuristic vehicles be they humanoid in shape or other, have been around for far longer than the IP of BattleTech and MechWarrior. The popularity of that generic mech concept -via their presence in a variety of mediums- does not mean that the specific IP of BattleTech and MechWarrior are equally popular or even remotely similar in popularity to the generic mech concept you refer to. In other words: Because there are "mechs" in the form of AT-ATs etc. in a StarWars film, and StarWars films are popular, does not mean that BT and MW are somehow also of increased value/popularity merely because they too have "mechs".

[Johnny Z]

Fart Huffer, on 10 August 2016 - 02:10 AM, said:

Marvelous! Simply Marvelous, what a sht show this game and community are! They have no problem inventing entirely new mechanics for problems that dont really exist and the idiot player base thinks is great! SUBTRACTING more from a game that is already SOARLY lacking in any real substance seems to be their only real solution to anything.

If however some one were to suggest ADDING something to the game...like lets say maybe.....REFLECTIVE ARMOR, you know, the thing that already exists in the universe to solve this problem and no....the sht lords cry them selvs to sleep at the mere thought of it because its not the right year for that. Simply amazing.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, I will not read 20 pages of posts from people whos IQ is a lower number than their shoe size.

Same guys that complained about quirks. Quirks were a straight up win.

Yep some will maybe say they were not of course, but they were.

Quirks were an entirely new addition to MechWarrior. If this power draw is as successful an addition, then awesome.

Bud Crue, on 10 August 2016 - 03:54 AM, said:

"Mechs" as you use the word in the context of the clips you present above, are generic. Mechs, that is to say: giant futuristic vehicles be they humanoid in shape or other, have been around for far longer than the IP of BattleTech and MechWarrior. The popularity of that generic mech concept -via their presence in a variety of mediums- does not mean that the specific IP of BattleTech and MechWarrior are equally popular or even remotely similar in popularity to the generic mech concept you refer to. In other words: Because there are "mechs" in the form of AT-ATs etc. in a StarWars film, and StarWars films are popular, does not mean that BT and MW are somehow also of increased value/popularity merely because they too have "mechs".

Mechs being shown in the highest budget feature games and movie trailers actually does in fact mean they are more popular.

I left out the other mech games because they are not even in the running. I had hopes for Titanfall and tried Hawken but nope.

Personally I think MechWarrior and Battletech are second only to Star Wars in value. Potentially tied.

Star Wars has a few surprises coming up is why I say even that.

Edited by Johnny Z, 10 August 2016 - 04:02 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Johnny Z, on 10 August 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

Mechs being shown in the highest budget feature games and movie trailers actually does in fact mean they are more popular.

So you are asserting that because there is an ATAT in StarWars that therefore MWO has become more popular by association, merely because an ATAT is a mech and MWO has mechs?

[Johnny Z]

Bud Crue, on 10 August 2016 - 04:02 AM, said:

So you are asserting that because there is an ATAT in StarWars that therefore MWO has become more popular by association, merely because an ATAT is a mech and MWO has mechs?

No you said that. I said mechs.

[Bud Crue]

Johnny Z, on 10 August 2016 - 04:02 AM, said:

No you said that. I said mechs.

Sorry, in the context of your response to SQW above, I had assumed you were making an association between the general popularity of "mechs" to your earlier assertion that the BT and MW IP is "worth a fortune". But apparently not. My error. Carry on.

[Johnny Z]

Bud Crue, on 10 August 2016 - 04:09 AM, said:

Sorry, in the context of your response to SQW above, I had assumed you were making an association between the general popularity of "mechs" to your earlier assertion that the BT and MW IP is "worth a fortune". But apparently not. My error. Carry on.

Argue about relative worth of a property like MechWarrior Online? I can say its worth many times what it was when PGI game studio got it and that its worth a fortune and that I know a thing or two about properties of all sorts from since I was a baby. That means nothing.

But I can for sure say mechs are a lot more popular now. ALOT. They are in the most expensive entertainment property, period, are they not?(Star Wars) Also in many other new games coming out in one form or another. Also being worked on by one of the most advanced games to date, MechWarrior Online. So regardless of opinion the MechWarrior property is worth for sure a lot more than it was. I think any reasonable person might even say its worth a fortune at the moment.

Edited by Johnny Z, 10 August 2016 - 04:52 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 June 2016 - 09:41 PM, said:

People who want energy draw:

1) Terribads
2) People who are perfectly fine with Long range PPFLD and ballistic boats (low alpha, high DPS) being the only viable loadouts

Literally the stupidest waste of time I have ever seen.

Awww, looks like you will have to adjust to more then just alpha, alpha, alpha.

You poor thing.

Let me go get my violin.

[SQW]

TWIAFU, on 10 August 2016 - 04:46 AM, said:

Awww, looks like you will have to adjust to more then just alpha, alpha, alpha.

You poor thing.

Let me go get my violin.

Considering even COD regards their teen fan base highly enough to trust them with weapons that has recoil and COF rather than hit-scan, MWO may be their last refuge.

"Yeah! Five cERLLs onto one pixel! I RUUULE!1!!"

[Satan n stuff]

SQW, on 10 August 2016 - 05:20 AM, said:

Considering even COD regards their teen fan base highly enough to trust them with weapons that has recoil and COF rather than hit-scan, MWO may be their last refuge.

I'm pretty sure that's really just to balance out the players who actually can aim.

[Gas Guzzler]

TWIAFU, on 10 August 2016 - 04:46 AM, said:

Awww, looks like you will have to adjust to more then just alpha, alpha, alpha.

You poor thing.

Let me go get my violin.

Right because I can't alpha 4 ac5s over and over and over again under the Energy Draw system. Oh wait I can. 3 PPCS? Perfect. 3 UAC10s? Perfect. 3 LPLS? WOW blowing up the damage cap, heat penalty incurred! 6MPLs? Damage cap again!! Dual gauss? Perfect.

The problem isn't about adjusting it's about balance. Nice try though. Please, show me you aren't completely ignorant by not completely missing the point.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 10 August 2016 - 07:29 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Satan n stuff, on 10 August 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure that's really just to balance out the players who actually can aim.

I love the "players' aim" argument, LMAO!

You DO realize that it is more difficult to hit a single component with multiple shots of a weapon that it is to point-n-click every weapon at once, and be guaranteed to hit precisely on the reticle, right? Therefore, players with better aim would be the ones to benefit from fewer alphas being used.

[Gas Guzzler]

Actually with a single big alpha if you miss you miss and get nothing. With small alphas you might miss one but get the next so really that isn't exactly true.

The biggest issue is how they balance lasers with everything else. Lasers need to be able to do more alpha damage than PPFLD or dakka dps in order to be viable.

[Johnny Z]

Hotthedd, on 10 August 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

I love the "players' aim" argument, LMAO!

You DO realize that it is more difficult to hit a single component with multiple shots of a weapon that it is to point-n-click every weapon at once, and be guaranteed to hit precisely on the reticle, right? Therefore, players with better aim would be the ones to benefit from fewer alphas being used.

A player with better aim doesn't care about any of this. Exploiters is another matter entirely.

1 alpha or 10 alphas the player with "better aim" wins anyway.

10 alphas an aim botter is way easier to spot. Way.

10 alphas doesn't allow a wall hacker to jump someone and insta gib them. Hes now going to have to fight someone that can shoot back.

etc.

Limits on extreme alphas is awesome for this game. Even a new player that cant shoot straight or pilot will at least get a second more to see whats going on.

I don't care who it is, for legit players its all win this energy draw thing.

Edited by Johnny Z, 10 August 2016 - 07:39 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

SQW, on 10 August 2016 - 05:20 AM, said:

Considering even COD regards their teen fan base highly enough to trust them with weapons that has recoil and COF rather than hit-scan, MWO may be their last refuge.

"Yeah! Five cERLLs onto one pixel! I RUUULE!1!!"

Ghost heat 1.0 doesn't allow you to do 5 ERLLS at once already. Do you even play this game? Lol

[Hotthedd]

Gas Guzzler, on 10 August 2016 - 07:31 AM, said:

Actually with a single big alpha if you miss you miss and get nothing. With small alphas you might miss one but get the next so really that isn't exactly true.

The biggest issue is how they balance lasers with everything else. Lasers need to be able to do more alpha damage than PPFLD or dakka dps in order to be viable.

Let's be honest. How often do we really miss? Check your own stats and I can guarantee you that you do not have a single weapon less than 50%. When a large alpha hits (and it usually does), most mechs in the game that are hit are left with exposed internals somewhere, and 12 guys on the other team with TS/VOIP. One click. That mech is effectively out of the game for a little while at least, assuming he can find cover and tactically reposition.

That is why alpha strikes in MW:O are the default method of fighting for every single good player. There is no choice to be made, grouped weapons fired simultaneously and hitting the same spot are better than chain fire 100% of the time. This is a problem with the game design. There should be a choice. There should be a benefit to chain firing over alpha spamming.

[Gas Guzzler]

Hotthedd, on 10 August 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

Let's be honest. How often do we really miss? Check your own stats and I can guarantee you that you do not have a single weapon less than 50%. When a large alpha hits (and it usually does), most mechs in the game that are hit are left with exposed internals somewhere, and 12 guys on the other team with TS/VOIP. One click. That mech is effectively out of the game for a little while at least, assuming he can find cover and tactically reposition.

That is why alpha strikes in MW:O are the default method of fighting for every single good player. There is no choice to be made, grouped weapons fired simultaneously and hitting the same spot are better than chain fire 100% of the time. This is a problem with the game design. There should be a choice. There should be a benefit to chain firing over alpha spamming.

Accuracy measurements by this game are very misleading. First, if you graze a component for a millisecond with a laser it counts as a hit. Second, it doesn't take into account that you hit the component you were aiming for.

What logical reason is there to benefit chain firing? I don't see it. I chain fire when I am not under duress and if I have two different projectile weapons that don't have the same velocity (like ER PPC and Gauss).

The issue I see is, loadouts like 4 AC5 are untouched by energy draw, same with 3 UAC10s, or 2 UAC10s and 2 UAC5s, or 6 UAC5s. How are laser loadouts ever going to compete with those if they can't alpha and twist? Laser vomit already falls short of those loadouts nowadays, this is just going to put the nail in the coffin.

It's not a player skill thing, it's primarily a balance issue. The other issue is the perceived low TTK which is typically a result of someone screwing up. I see it all the time, I've done it myself, it happens, but it is avoidable. The real joke is that Energy Draw is not going to change TTK. Ballistic DPS is not known for high TTK... it tears through armor like butter.

[Johnny Z]

Gas Guzzler, on 10 August 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

Accuracy measurements by this game are very misleading. First, if you graze a component for a millisecond with a laser it counts as a hit. Second, it doesn't take into account that you hit the component you were aiming for.

What logical reason is there to benefit chain firing? I don't see it. I chain fire when I am not under duress and if I have two different projectile weapons that don't have the same velocity (like ER PPC and Gauss).

The issue I see is, loadouts like 4 AC5 are untouched by energy draw, same with 3 UAC10s, or 2 UAC10s and 2 UAC5s, or 6 UAC5s. How are laser loadouts ever going to compete with those if they can't alpha and twist? Laser vomit already falls short of those loadouts nowadays, this is just going to put the nail in the coffin.

It's not a player skill thing, it's primarily a balance issue. The other issue is the perceived low TTK which is typically a result of someone screwing up. I see it all the time, I've done it myself, it happens, but it is avoidable. The real joke is that Energy Draw is not going to change TTK. Ballistic DPS is not known for high TTK... it tears through armor like butter.

4 AC 5's is a 20 point alpha. Being used by a very slow and large assault mech.

If 4 ac 5's is the new big damage load out then its a good move.

[Gas Guzzler]

Johnny Z, on 10 August 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

4 AC 5's is a 20 point alpha. Being used by a very slow and large assault mech.

If 4 ac 5's is the new big damage load out then its a good move.

Actually it will be on a 73 kph Warhammer most often.

You realize that that Warhammer outperforms evil laser vomit Black Knights already right?

[Johnny Z]

Gas Guzzler, on 10 August 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

Actually it will be on a 73 kph Warhammer most often.

You realize that that Warhammer outperforms evil laser vomit Black Knights already right?

Ok fine if you say so.

No offense but I hope the energy draw is in tomorrow.

Ideally it would be 25 point limit on alpha with .5 recovery or something like that. This lets a dual AC 20 jagermech chain fire basically and that a strong mech doing really good damage.

Lets a 50 kph King Crab Dual ac 20 do the same thing.

4 LL Stk is fine to like this.

Edited by Johnny Z, 10 August 2016 - 08:07 AM.