776 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 June 2016 - 04:23 PM, said:

Maybe. Or maybe there are less really good light pilots than people want to believe.

Yes, there certainly are. That's actually important point to bring up, because a lot of people believe they are really good light pilots on account of their results with the ACH or Oxide. You put them in a Kit Fox or a Commando and they'll struggle to reach 300 damage on average. People think they're fantastic Locust pilots because they do well with the LCT-1E or LCT-1M, but then they suck when you put them into any other Locust.

However, the fact that there are really, really few people who can consistently get good results with most light mechs (not just the ACH, Oxide, etc) speaks to the fact that light mechs are woefully underpowered in MWO. From a developer standpoint, just pointing the finger at the players and saying "git gud" is a really inadequate response. And the same goes for players who primarily play mediums, heavies and assault mechs and have no sympathy for light mech players. The kind of players who say "Well, heavy mechs just happen to suit my style". No, heavy mechs are simply easier to play than light mechs.

dervishx5, on 17 June 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

I predict this thread will reach... 15 pages by the time it reaches 12AM PST.

And yet, I'm not getting any internet points for my OP.

FML.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 17 June 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

Yes, there certainly are. That's actually important point to bring up, because a lot of people believe they are really good light pilots on account of their results with the ACH or Oxide. You put them in a Kit Fox or a Commando and they'll struggle to reach 300 damage on average. People think they're fantastic Locust pilots because they do well with the LCT-1E or LCT-1M, but then they suck when you put them into any other Locust.

However, the fact that there are really, really few people who can consistently get good results with most light mechs (not just the ACH, Oxide, etc) speaks to the fact that light mechs are woefully underpowered in MWO. From a developer standpoint, just pointing the finger at the players and saying "git gud" is a really inadequate response. And the same goes for players who primarily play mediums, heavies and assault mechs and have no sympathy for light mech players. The kind of players who say "Well, heavy mechs just happen to suit my style". No, heavy mechs are simply easier to play than light mechs.


And yet, I'm not getting any internet points for my OP.

FML.

To me it speaks to a mix of lack of imagination, poor tactical application (both by teams and by the modes PGI has given us) etc than anything. Lights shoudl not be going toe to toe with Assaults, face to face, and winning. They should be able to win by leveraging their speed, etc. FocusFireWarrior: Deathmatch Online doesn't realyl allow for a lot of that. So I guess I would rather see it addressed by forcing PGI to remember roles, then by seeing MiniMe Ninjas everywhere, that are onyl viable because of artificial BS.

[Jman5]

Pretty happy with it. Practically every mech that gives me a hard time got enlarged, while many mechs I don't have trouble fighting got shrunk. One major exception is the Locust. Little bugger gives me enough trouble already. Now it's going to be crazy hard to hit with Clan UACs.

[Darian DelFord]

Alistair Winter, on 17 June 2016 - 04:38 PM, said:

Hammered into the ground? You and I definitely aren't playing the same game. In the game I'm playing, Oxides are still top 3 most popular light mechs, consistently getting better scores and more kills than other light mechs. Not as monstrously powerful as before, but still blowing most competition out of the water.

I am referring to the Accel Decel Nerf being lowered from 35 to 10. What this means for the oxide is when we need to make a stop or go we will be slower than now. ALL light mechs save for the locust are not as agile as they should be when compared to the assaults and heavies. Its almost impossible now to stay behind an assault. After this the oixde will not be feared from behind as we will not be able to stay there/

[NoiseCrypt]

ShinobiHunter, on 17 June 2016 - 04:41 PM, said:

I wish they had set the start point smaller, 35 tonners got screwed hard. Time will tell how it plays though.

Wouldn't that make all the other mechs smaller... ???

[PPC Principal]

Alright, just spend 30 minutes ranting, before i realised the image overlay was bugged. Yes, I had it fully loaded. Mixed up the new vs. original image for every mech.

Well, was mostly right though. I dont understand most of the changes. Inner Sphere pretty much got nerfed to death, exept a few really necessary adjustments, like the Catapult.

Dont get why every 35t Mech got so big and broad, its ridiculous.

Funny how every Clan Mech exept the Gargoyle got the right changes, although the heavies got buffed really good.

MWO, taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back since 2012.

Edited by PPC Principal, 17 June 2016 - 05:08 PM.

[Catho Sharn]

Well the Archer is certainly dead now.

[Bud Crue]

What was once great shall be again.
I for one welcome the return of our Stalker overlords.

Mauler: Did the quirks really need to be messed with?

My poor Zeus...yes it was small, but so what. Its small profile and super quirks were the only things making them playable. Rarely seen before now will be even more rare.

The Victor: that's it? 10 structure to the STs? Really? Uh. that aint going to save it. Still dead.

Black Knight: I admit I am concerned that this might ruin it.

Cataphract: I honestly can't tell what they did.

Dragon: hopeful. Looks good.

Grasshopper: How's the weather up there?

Quickdraw: Whew. Quirk changes are incidental and scale is a bit smaller.

Tbolt: Like the size, not so much the quirk adjustments.

[MerryIguana]

I didnt want to play lights anyways.

[Mystere]

Lights:

[Xetelian]

How did they come to the decision that mechs were in need of getting larger?

The 55 ton Mediums are HUGE
The Jenner didn't need to increase in size the rest should be brought down in size comparatively
The AWS is still a giant with saddle bags.

The Zeus was at a good size, the other assaults, like the AWS and VTR should have been brought down in scale to the Zeus's volumes.


This is NOT what I was hoping for.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Alistair Winter, on 17 June 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

Weird that you use those as examples, when the Black Knight and the Jenners (Oxide + Jenner IICs) are among the most popular mechs in the game. And the Grasshopper is up there as well.

There really weren't too many cases of bottom tier mechs that got kicked deeper into the mud. Highlanders, for sure. Zeus, I guess.

But the rescale wasn't supposed to be about making popular/strong mechs larger, to nerf them. Or did PGI change their minds during the process.

You will flat out not see most of the mechs I listed anymore. Some of them got larger AND had their quirks reduced. How is that good for the game?

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 17 June 2016 - 05:04 PM.

[Piney II]

The pre QQ begins......................

Patch day should be interesting!

[Bishop Steiner]

Catho Sharn, on 17 June 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

Well the Archer is certainly dead now.

lol... what's this "now" part.

Aside from Bandito PUG farming, it's been dead since before it's arrival. Shambling Abortion.

[Alistair Winter]

LT. HARDCASE, on 17 June 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

But the rescale wasn't supposed to be about making popular/strong mechs larger, to nerf them. Or did PGI change their minds during the process.

Correct, it was just supposed to make the size reflect their shape and tonnage. Mission accomplished.

The criticism from the fans is that it will ruin mechs that were already bad, i.e. result in worse balance. My counter-argument is that balance is effectively improved across the board, with some notable exceptions.

LT. HARDCASE, on 17 June 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

You will flat out not see most of the mechs I listed anymore. How is that good for the game?

Are you a betting man, by any chance?

[Nightmare1]

So, just to make sure I'm understanding this all correctly, PGI decided to shrink the Nova, Warhawk, Daishi, and Timberwolf to tiny size, but grow the Enforcer, Wolfhound, Panther, Firestarter, and Jenners to relatively huge size? They even made the Grasshopper and Black Knight Bigger???

Were they drunk? I can understand making the Jenners larger for gamplay balance, but the Panther? Really?

*Scratches head*

Nothing makes sense any more.

Edit: Realized that I read the Locust backwards.

Edited by Nightmare1, 17 June 2016 - 05:19 PM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Alistair Winter, on 17 June 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

Are you a betting man, by any chance?

As a matter of fact, yes, I just happen to be.

[Mystere]

To everyone who just recently bought Oxides:

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

dervishx5, on 17 June 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

Executioner, while one of the tallest mechs in Battletech, if not THE tallest, didn't need to get bigger.

I love the EXEs, my favorite 'Mech to pilot. I'm afraid that's going to have to change.

I wrote a response in the official comparison thread, but ill mirror it here:

I fear this will make the EXE the Summoner of the assault class; a 'Mech that should be good but suffers from a number of problems that deny it viability.

The one thing it had going for it was serious mobility. If the profile is made so much vastly bigger, I'm afraid that will be negated.

My other response here:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__5241558

[wanderer]

Well, increasing the size of most of my targets IS one way to buff LRMs...

(Ironically, the Orion doesn't seem to have noticed much, other than the modeling fix to the knee.)