776 replies to this topic

[Felbombling]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 June 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

Looks to me as though the Assault Mechs are inflated by comparison. Does the extra bulk seem necessary to justify the 80 ton difference? Very interesting... thanks for the insight, Bishop.

[STEF_]

Rampage, on 19 June 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

I do not understand why people think that every Mech must be balanced against every other Mech.

Is it a novelty for you?
Community discussed about this since the beginning.

About BT comparison: lol, is there anyone still thinking mwo has something to do with BT? really?

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimax, on 19 June 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

Scale has to be included in balance considerations, or PGI will need to start doling out armor and structure quirks by the truckloads.

have you perchance perused the Quirk section at smurfy?

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 June 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

As noted before, many time, scale should NEVER be used as a balancer (nor hitboxes). It simply IS: It's a baseline that allows one to build the variables around it.

If we are going to start subjectively balance mechs by scale, the Victor, Archer and Summoner would have to be scaled down to the size of the OLD Firestarter.

No truer words spoken.

That said, I can appreciate the intent behind inferring that scale should be used as a balance metric... But like you referenced with 100% accuracy, it becomes a slippery slope that would nullify the efforts to create a scale baseline.

Yes, this is a shooter and scale does play into the viability of mech classes. That said, one cannot simply ignore the math behind establishing each mechs scale for the sake of some arbitrary assumption of vulnerability.

[Mister Blastman]

Stefka Kerensky, on 19 June 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

Read my post: I don0t care about this, because when someone shoots, it's the dimension of the silouette that matters.
That's why months ago I stated that volumetric rescale would be plain $h1t.

New catapult can be next meta.
PXH will be a circus mech, trust me.

PXH was going to be a circus 'mech before the rescale. It was going to just be plain... bad. It had no hope. It was doa.

Let's see how it plays out before we judge. Frankly I think the larger sizes for the majority of robots are only going to exacerbate the ttk problems we have (convergence).

[Belacose]

Thanks for posting this thread, Bishop!

Was feeling a little bummed out after seeing that other thread, being that I had pre-ordered the Phoenix Hawk.

[Chagatay]

But can it run through the Executioner' legs that is the question. King Crab even looks better as it has a very wide stance. Could it wiggle/wrap through?

Edited by Chagatay, 19 June 2016 - 07:51 AM.

[STEF_]

Mister Blastman, on 19 June 2016 - 07:44 AM, said:

PXH was going to be a circus 'mech before the rescale. It was going to just be plain... bad. It had no hope. It was doa.

Quirks make a mech good or bad.
But rescale made PXH really doa....

[Andi Nagasia]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 June 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

My God Bishop you know what this means?
inside Every Atlas's is a Hidden Locust!

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 June 2016 - 07:44 AM, said:

have you perchance perused the Quirk section at smurfy?

The amounts are insufficient for the survivability issues this rescale is going to create for many mechs.

[Roughneck45]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 June 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

Makes me want an Atlas with Locusts for legs.

Now thats a quad mech Russ can get behind hahah

Edited by Roughneck45, 19 June 2016 - 07:49 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimax, on 19 June 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

The Catapult is also 20T heavier, which means it has more armor and structure, and more firepower.

On top of that, we don't really shoot mechs from the top frequently enough for the top down view to be as heavily weighed in performance as the front and side profiles.


This isn't theory craft, this experience is the reality in game right now and has been since its inception.

and in practice the extra armor is near meaningless, considering the inability to use it's arms to soak damage anyhow, and how much more easily it is hit from flanking shots....since last I checked (maybe comps do it difference) but most of the game isn't spent, I hope, staring at each other, but moving, twisting, jumping, etc.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Roughneck45, on 19 June 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

Makes me want an Atlas with Locusts for legs.

Now thats a quad mech Russ can get behind hahah

Don't tell anyone, but the Kodiak is two Hunchbacks stacked on top of two Urbies.

[Ryllen Kriel]

Bishop, could you please now build a space wall to keep the Clanners out? They don't pay taxes and don't want to become Inner Sphere citizens and are taking all our entitlements!

Jokes about Trump out of the way, good volumetric comparisons. The only way to still be sure is to wait another two days I guess.

[Bishop Steiner]

Chagatay, on 19 June 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

But can it run through the Executioner' legs that is the question. King Crab even looks better as it has a very wide stance. Could it wiggle/wrap through?

I need to check..I think height is the issue, in most cases... more than thigh gap.... hmmmmmm.

[cazidin]

So. What happens if PGI misses the mark on scaling an upcoming mech like say, the Viper or the Huntsmen? They promised they wouldn't but...

[DaZur]

You know, looking at this anthropomorphic reference sheet. I wonder if PGI's baseline was the lowest commonn denominator... The pilot.

Think about it... They establish what is the smallest reference point (pilot) established what was the smallest mech in game (Locust) and derived once sizing that mech to fit a pilot in the most cramped and uncomfortable position possible, established "that" mech constituted 20 tons and then scaled everything else based on that reference point.

Obviously, PGI threw a metric ton of math into the mix but just from a logic stand-point... It kind'a makes sense.

Bishop Steiner, on 19 June 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:

[1453 R]

Wait...you're saying that the forum reaction to a feature which has only been previewed and not even actively implemented yet, and thusly one which we have no actual experience of yet, might be overblown and disaster-mongery, based on questionable conclusions drawn from incomplete information under faulty assumptions by people with agendas to push and/or no ability to cease the strange jerking motions of their knees?

NO! You're lying! That sort of thing NEVER happens around here!

[Cy Mitchell]

Stefka Kerensky, on 19 June 2016 - 07:44 AM, said:

Is it a novelty for you?
Community discussed about this since the beginning.

About BT comparison: lol, is there anyone still thinking mwo has something to do with BT? really?

Community can discuss it, cry about it, scream about it, whatever. It will never happen. It is impossible to balance this many different shapes, sizes and configurations in any meaningful manner.

I see people here that think a Locust should be balanced with a Kodiak. Pffft!

Edited by Rampage, 19 June 2016 - 07:59 AM.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Trauglodyte, on 19 June 2016 - 06:58 AM, said:

The one thing, Bish, that I will say is that the top volume doesn't really matter in MW:O. So, this image essentially shows that the Phoenix Hawk kind of got hosed in a way. I'm probably not wording this correctly. The point is, the volume from the front and the side make it seem like the PH is closer to the Catapult than it should be. It is only when you look at it from the top that you see all of the mass that is missing. But, mass from the top doesn't mean anything because we're not driving LAMs and we don't have aerospace fighters doing attack runs on mechs. This is the only area where I think anyone can gripe and it makes sense to be upset about that. The Cat should be squat but, in the world in which we play, it should be close to where it was than it currently is because, as I said, that top portion doesn't mean much.

Most of the humanoid mechs are getting "shafted" as you say. Look at the difference between a Marauder (a chicken legged, aircraft torso, fairly thick arms) and the Grasshopper (a straight legged, humanoid torso, and humanoid arms).

It is the way the mechs are designed, combined with how they would need to "spend" their volume on. Frontal profiles only, GHR got shafted. Side/top profiles only, MAD got shafted.