597 replies to this topic

[Serevn]

I get to the point where It doesn't matter what I'm using to play with... I'm completely absorbed into the game and controls are automatic in the back of my subconscious mind.

[Hellya]

Romulus Stahl, on 16 July 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

You appear to be the one raging, the game is named "MechWarrior Online", it is based on the the BattleTech universe, and you are piloting a Mech. The controls that you are trying to rationalize in the future have already been established. If you don't like it get over it, or go play a game in your own imaginary universe, this one has substantial documentation on how things work.

There is no documentation just novels and fantasy (that thing you live in). Your rage is clearly out of control and no one has to accept your rules at all.

Get over yourself, find something that pleases you because you clearly are hostile to everyone on these forums.

[Ohmwrecker]

I used to play Mechwarrior (and all the other robot type games like Heavy Gear and Earthsiege) exclusively with joysticks, but I'm thinking the mouse and keyboard might be better in today's world. I do have a very high end HOTAS (the Thrustmaster Warthog) which I love for flight sims but there's going to be way more motion going on in a mech in comparison. Flight sims you've got a pretty stable platform, but a robot on the ground is a totall different experience.

One big factor is I don't have a twist stick anymore, so that's another consideration. I'd hate to use rudder pedals for torso twisting.

[Romulus Stahl]

Hellya, on 16 July 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

There is no documentation just novels and fantasy (that thing you live in). Your rage is clearly out of control and no one has to accept your rules at all.

Get over yourself, find something that pleases you because you clearly are hostile to everyone on these forums.

Actually the novels don't have that much in regards to controls, there is more in the TR's, and Manuals, not to mention the pods that were the real goal. The OT was/is "Why do people think MW is designed for Joysticks", hence my input to support why people think it is/should be a game suited for a joystick configuration.
As to raging you are the one not staying on the discussion and clearly attempting to make things personal.

Edited by Romulus Stahl, 16 July 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[Viper69]

Viper69, on 16 July 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

WHy dont people just shut up and use whats best for them? Why do Keyboard and mouse guys and joystick guys feel the need to try to convert people into the fold like some religious zealots? If it works for you fine S.T.F.U and play, if I blow the crap out of you will you care what I am using to do it with?

eZZip, on 16 July 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Strange how you call out all keyboard/mouse players as 'religious zealots' despite more joystick players making a point about it in this thread. It's pretty irrelevant in MW, anyway, since it's doubtful that the advantages of either control device would be overpowering like they would definitely be in regular FPSs.

Did you even read what you quoted? May want to re-read that buddy before making much more of an ...well you get the point.

Edited by Viper69, 16 July 2012 - 05:19 PM.

[RedDragon]

As many have observed already, the point should not be to convert people to play with stick or mouse. It's a question of preferences. But you should refrain from disregarding one or the other, because 1) We don't have enough input (pun!) yet to say what is better, and 2) Even if there would be a (empirically measurable) "better" way to control your mech, there would still be people who just can't use one or like to use the other. Some people even use the arrow-keys for FPS and beat many WASD-players.

As to why a mouse should be better than a joystick: The mouse has one advantage over a stick - speed of movement. In MW you have a fixed speed of turning (both for chassis and torso). So that advantage is negated. Plain and simple as that.
Everything else is based on preference of the individual player.

I for one can't imagine to play with keyboard and mouse. The throttle alone is much more intuitive to me than keys could ever be. You just set it to a value and your mech moves. Push it backwards and your mech reverses. You don't have to stay on a key or hit a seperate key for reverse.
Same goes with the stick itself. In MW3+4, I used my MS FF2 and had all the controls in one hand, chassis by the main stick, torso by the twitch axis and looking around (and arms) by the top hat.

In the end, it doesn't matter. If a stick has advantages over a mouse, but you can't use it, then it doesn't have advantages for you and vice versa. Use what ever you want, the best method is the one you mastered the most. A good player isn't a player with the best input device, it's the player who knows to use the means he has available in the most efficient way.

[Rooster68W]

The last mech game I played with a joy stick was STEEL BATTALION for the origional XboX. that game was a lot more fun with that set up. Having to start your mech with toggle switches and a big red button to eject befire dying so you wouldn't have to start over from scratch. That game had a cult following online, but sadly it was before I had good internet. Joysticks will always have a special place for me, and I have seen some real skilled players on a joystick, but it took more work for that than it did just to move a mouse, and being human we are lazy creatures so we naturally migrated over to what was easier.

[Havoc3D]

thontor, on 16 July 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

My issue with that is.. both my mouse and my joystick are made for the right hand..

WHOOO!!! Lefty Advantage!
Though I have tried the mouse/stick combo and wasn't a fan.

Sticking with my joystick I think. I tried KB/MO on MW4 as I'm trying to decide which way to start with MWO and I honestly do way worse with a mouse. It's good for long range sniping as you can keep the crosshairs on someone easier to keep LRM lock, but it's too herky jerky when you try to get multiple axes moving at once. Especially at speed in a faster mech it becomes almost impossible to hold the crosshair on someone while turning your torso/adjusting throttle with WADS.

This game really does need constant linear input on any/all given plane IMO. Twitchy speed isn't all that important. It's a 25-100 robot...if anything else, it reminds me of flying a helicopter; might be moving and facing two different directions, or turning one way while rotating the other.

[wmau24]

The thing that all the keyboard/mouse people are seeming to forget is that the joystick people also have a keyboard and mouse. So if the joystick ends up lacking in performance you can just switch. The K/M people on the other hand will never actually know for sure, unless they buy a joystick.... But then they become joystick owners

[Wootus]

Well, it seems like we just don't know enough about the game at this point (and the ones who do know can't say) to know whether one should use a mouse + KB or a Joystick.

All I can say is that MWO sure as hell better be made with joysticks in mind. Not that I'm a joystick lover (I'll play the game however it was intended to be played) but simply because to me: MechWarrior = Joysticks. And if Piranha is really trying to make a great MW game, they will do so assuming that every single person that is going to play will be playing with a Joystick. The game should be made so that when people do use a mouse to pilot their mech, they think to themselves: "****, I seriously need to go out and get a joystick for this game"

That probably won't be the case, and the sad truth of it is they are probably just trying to make as much money as they can. And to do that they know that the vast majority of people who will be playing will use a mouse and keyboard, so will most likely design the game to accommodate them, and joysticks as a secondary priority.

The ironic thing about all this? I'd bet that more people who bought the founders packs have joysticks than don't.

[Rusteater]

Wootus, on 16 July 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

I'd bet that more people who bought the founders packs have joysticks than don't.

Poll time?

[Wootus]

Rusteater, on 16 July 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Poll time?

Poll time.

[DarkBlade337]

Riffleman, on 16 July 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Had an arguement with someone on another website about the game. Said things like joysticks will never be competative, a mouse is far superior for pinpoint attacks like torsos and legs. Just tore into joysticks in a long tirade like I and everyone else planning on using a joystick had NO idea they were inferior.

Remember the days before killstreaks, headshots, quickscoping, e-sports, constant min maxing, premade vs pug beatdowns, kill/death and win/loss ratios?

What happened to playing a game for fun over the last 10 years?

When did playing a game as a fun simulator become an everything rides on your performance stress fest.

Each Game is different and the level of realism that you want to play with changes the dynamic. MechWarrior has never been an FPS and comparing it to the likes of Quake and Doom is comparing Apples to Oranges.

Personally, the only way I EVER play a MW game (not counting the lame MW games on the XBOX) was with a HOTAS setup. It has always been about simulation. (Yes, I did own Steel Batalion for Xbox).

[Hellya]

Romulus Stahl, on 16 July 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Actually the novels don't have that much in regards to controls, there is more in the TR's, and Manuals, not to mention the pods that were the real goal. The OT was/is "Why do people think MW is designed for Joysticks", hence my input to support why people think it is/should be a game suited for a joystick configuration.
As to raging you are the one not staying on the discussion and clearly attempting to make things personal.

You are still going on about something to do with me talking about the MW universe. I am sure if you could stop issuing demands that everyone role play with you, you would have noticed that it was said to you already that I was not talking about the MW universe.

Not to sure where you are going with this, but it seems pointless to me. Since you are having issues with people posting outside the MW universe, this will be my last response to you.

[Jiri Starrider]

Romulus Stahl, on 16 July 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Actually the novels don't have that much in regards to controls, there is more in the TR's, and Manuals, not to mention the pods that were the real goal. The OT was/is "Why do people think MW is designed for Joysticks", hence my input to support why people think it is/should be a game suited for a joystick configuration.
As to raging you are the one not staying on the discussion and clearly attempting to make things personal.

Just reread the The Blood of Kerensky Trilogy. Had a nice description in it. Foot pedals for the leg movement. Joysticks (might have been on waldo's... darn, just reread it going to have to go look) for the reticle/arm movement and the neurohelmet for balance. That said it was a Stackpole book, entertaining, but perhaps a little loose with canon. Sitting in the generally accepted equivalent of a mech cockpit a la virtual world, or a decent simpit, the limitations of what you can manually input becomes apparent when compared to the anthropomorphic movements described in the novels (not just his) and artwork. But then if you give more than balance to the neurohelmet the manual controls become superfluous. Why use a stick to aim when you are moving the mech with your thoughts?


Anyway, on topic. Joystick because, Mech. That said my stick is an oooooold Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold USB, while I have a nice first flight Razer Naga I've been using for WoT, etc. So, I'll try both, see what works.

:: Sob :: If I can ever get in...

[Oy of MidWorld]

ohmwrecker, on 16 July 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

One big factor is I don't have a twist stick anymore, so that's another consideration. I'd hate to use rudder pedals for torso twisting.

Using a hotas with pedals feels very natural, at least in mechwarrior living legends. just use the pedals for turning the mech. the stick controls torso movement, x and y axis. That way, aiming is very smooth. You can stay on target in turning fights, as twisting the torso is automatically done while aiming. It just feels natural. And pulling the mech into a high speed turn using the rudder is actually fun and intuitive. I'll play MWO the same way.

[Wirecutter]

eZZip, on 16 July 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

-it's generally acknowledged amongst all that joysticks have the obvious advantage in most, if not all flight games and in some vehicle games

i would just like to say that freelancer(some space sim) did a rather nice job of making a mouse feel like a joystick =D
ur turn speed was determined by how far ur mouse was away from the center of the screen... and it had a dead zone too!

**NOTE: this in no way constitutes an opinion on whether a mouse or a joystick will be better for MWO. it just illustrates an example where mouse and joystick controls felt similar. MWO is not using this system.

[Frogbat]

Sometimes i use joysticks for games i run off emulators. Zelda Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask is like a whole new game with a joystick!

Joysticks are just to change pace a lil, get a fresh feel off a classic game.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Mechwarrior 4 I know played a hellva lot better with a joystick, i did play and beat hte campaign like 4 times w/ MnKB but joystick made it a breeze and pinpoint attacks and what not were actully easier with a joystick, considering you have to coordinate the hull with the legs...which is kinda clumsy to do with a MnKB...

MWO looks like it will play far better with a MnKB..

My one question is how do we work weapon fire groups with MnKB? I never could quite get with the program of assigning weapon groups to my mouse or keyboard...it was insanely easy wuith a joystick, fire group 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6,....firing them was as easy as pressing a Joystick button.....with a MnKB how is that going to work?

[TyrialRetribution]

i to have an x52 and i love it. i plan to use it for MWO, and personally i cant stand the idea of using a mouse. i can see the argument for mouse effectiveness due to accuracy. however a joystick has its own benefits. better large movement control for faster turns and the like as well as faster response time to a larger amount of actions, for a sim like MWO that has lots of possible commands a good joystick allows faster responses for all possible actions. for example, i plan to have about 4+ weapon setts that i can fire for different range and engagement types, plus a fire all set, and i will be able to fire all of them easily and without reducing my ability to move (by taking a finger off wasd). a skilled joystick user that has set their stick up right will also have the ability to be just as accurate at fine motor controls like aiming as a mouse.

so i expect those that have shelled out the money for a quality joystick in a game like this will have an advantage over others that use other control methods. especially thumb stick based controllers *yuk*