238 replies to this topic

[MadcatX]

M A N T I S, on 22 June 2016 - 10:41 AM, said:

Nope. Good pilots are spatially aware and probably were using the former tool optimally, since it was close to an optimal design. Scrubs who are not spatially aware were most likely the least affected.

Remove the tool that the good pilot knows how to use optimally and he ends up being as spatially aware as a scrub essentially?

[dervishx5]

MadcatX, on 22 June 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Remove the tool that the good pilot knows how to use optimally and he ends up being as spatially aware as a scrub essentially?

I know, I think it's funny too.

Use the Force Luke.

[Minimum Viable Kieransky]

Please add me to the list.

Prosperity Park, on 21 June 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

Sorry, I only have vitriol for people who are rage quitting until the hot fix.

So you only have vitriol towards actually skilled players.

[William Mountbank]

Coolant, on 22 June 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

I'll continue to play even if they don't change the mini-map at all (but they are), because with a simple toggle the map behaves the same way as in MW4:Mercs. Yes, you could have the close-in rotating map with toggle too, but for some of us the default was the mini-map the way it is now in the 21st patch. If you are complaining you obviously didn't support MW4 when many of us have been supporting the franchise for a decade or more.

The MW4 minimap standard setting was a rotating 1000m ring, similar to the MWO minimap before this patch.

Quote

Seems to me like it was very nearly a victory of the "sim" faction over a majority who had no idea what was happening.

Sim would be having a minimap tied to the mech radar, which is mounted on the torso. As with all real world radar systems, the radar readout would move with a change in orientation of the radar emitter. Having a minimap linked to the artificial north of the map is less sim, and more arcade.

[razenWing]

Coolant, on 22 June 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

I'll continue to play even if they don't change the mini-map at all (but they are), because with a simple toggle the map behaves the same way as in MW4:Mercs. Yes, you could have the close-in rotating map with toggle too, but for some of us the default was the mini-map the way it is now in the 21st patch. If you are complaining you obviously didn't support MW4 when many of us have been supporting the franchise for a decade or more.



Which is exactly why a few "leaders" of teams shouldn't tweet Russ asking him to meet with them privately so they can chat about the way Faction Play or anything else should work...which means the rest of us are being spoken for without our consent.

First of all, as you said so yourself, it was A TOGGLE. It's not one or the other. (and with mektek, you can even do BOTH) So don't mislead people that the true map format of MW4 is the legacy format. Most people don't play on map mode anyhow (go look at all the youtube playthroughs, literally no one stray from using RADAR mode). For the few of that do? As most of us said, we don't care if you like it that it. What we DO care, is that we aren't allowed to play the RADAR mode, and instead, HAVE TO defer to MAP mode. And for that, we blame PGI.

And again, we are not targeting you guys, we are angry at PGI. Which for some reason, your side feels the need to constantly try to mock the masses and defend PGI for no raisen, when in fact, both of us want the same thing... for PGI to give us what we want. So go blame PGI for the mess. Go ask PGI to setup a TOGGLE like in MW4.

(and you want to talk legacy? I go back to mw3 and have ties with mw2. THAT'S legacy. And legacy has ALWAYS been RADAR, not map.)

Edited by razenWing, 22 June 2016 - 11:37 AM.

[smokytehbear]

Burke IV, on 22 June 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

Seems to me like it was very nearly a victory of the "sim" faction over a majority who had no idea what was happening. With the skill of a politician this was inflicted on the masses and if people had kept quiet somebodys vision of what the game should be would have come true. Pilot the mech or be the mech. I dont own siesmic module i dont think it was worth the price (that half a mec and im poor) and shouldnt really be in the game anyway.

Thank you for your compliments on my political skill (at least I think that's what you're saying, might be misinterpretting). And yes, without our and everyone else that made a thread's efforts, perhaps Russ' "vision" of this game may have been implemented and all those names (some of them actually big names) you see in the first post would be gone for good. Is this what you wanted?

I agree the game is stagnant, dying even. The solution to make it grow/live again isn't things that alienate huge numbers of die-hard fans. Like has been said by hundreds already in various places including this thread, if it was just a toggleable option we all would have won.

Coolant, on 22 June 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

I'll continue to play even if they don't change the mini-map at all (but they are), because with a simple toggle the map behaves the same way as in MW4:Mercs. Yes, you could have the close-in rotating map with toggle too, but for some of us the default was the mini-map the way it is now in the 21st patch. If you are complaining you obviously didn't support MW4 when many of us have been supporting the franchise for a decade or more.

Wrong. I've played every game since MW2:Mercenaries and loved every one of them. Doesn't mean I loved every single part of every one of them though, and this particular example from MW4 was just as bad an idea then as it is now.

Interesting note though that it was toggleable. Wonder why that never crossed PGI's mind.

Sader325, on 22 June 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

List is pointless , half the people on it are probably still ingame.

Well I certainly hope not. Would be pretty deceitful of them. Can't speak for anyone but myself, but I haven't and won't be logging in until the hotfix is applied.

MadcatX, on 22 June 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Remove the tool that the good pilot knows how to use optimally and he ends up being as spatially aware as a scrub essentially?

dervishx5, on 22 June 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

I know, I think it's funny too.

Use the Force Luke.

I'm pretty good at darts. As long as I'm allowed to use my eyes. Saying that I'm not actually better than a blind man at throwing darts because I'm just relying on a tool is stupid. I bet if you poked my eyes out I would be back at "scrub level." This is your logic.

Edited by smokytehbear, 22 June 2016 - 12:16 PM.

[dervishx5]

smokytehbear, on 22 June 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

I'm pretty good at darts. As long as I'm allowed to use my eyes. Saying that I'm not actually better than a blind man at throwing darts because I'm just relying on a tool is stupid. I bet if you poked my eyes out I would be back at "scrub level." This is your logic.

My logic is that I find humor in other's angst.

[smokytehbear]

dervishx5, on 22 June 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

My logic is that I find humor in other's angst.

Oh, my mistake. That's fair.

[Revis Volek]

dervishx5, on 22 June 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

My logic is that I find humor in other's angst.

if you havent found out he is getting kicks from just toying with you then you might wanna just ignore him.


He didnt comment a single thing about the MAP he just commented about us. What does that say?

[Yosharian]

I didn't think it could be _that_ bad but upon entering MWO tonight... yep, it's that bad

[smokytehbear]

Revis Volek, on 22 June 2016 - 12:23 PM, said:

if you havent found out he is getting kicks from just toying with you then you might wanna just ignore him.


He didnt comment a single thing about the MAP he just commented about us. What does that say?

Well I do enjoy a bit of good friendly banter here and there.

And honestly, yes I have noticed. Been trying to figure out this guy's angle for some time now in multiple threads. Eventually settled on the fact he doesn't really have one.

But no hate. He's bumping the thread, and I am a demagogue anyway so I'm not trying to convince him.

[Yosharian]

My thoughts:


https://s32.postimg...._clusterf_k.jpg


https://s31.postimg....o_map_FUBAR.jpg

[Fnord Asteroid]

Add: ChromeDaedalus


reason: siesmics are useless. wtf? 6 million C-bills doing what, taking up space?


edit for reason

Edited by ChromeDaedalus, 22 June 2016 - 12:36 PM.

[Yosharian]

ChromeDaedalus, on 22 June 2016 - 12:35 PM, said:

Add: ChromeDaedalus


reason: siesmics are useless. wtf? 6 million C-bills doing what, taking up space?


edit for reason

Yeah seismic seems absolutely useless now

I would definitely prefer it if the old map view was kept, I don't like the new one at all, don't feel like it's an improvement.

Edited by Yosharian, 22 June 2016 - 12:46 PM.

[M A N T I S]

MadcatX, on 22 June 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Remove the tool that the good pilot knows how to use optimally and he ends up being as spatially aware as a scrub essentially?

No. I mean they have trained their brain to process complimentary pieces of information efficiently, producing meaningful output. Removing the coordinating piece of critical data (torso to leg relative orientation) and now one piece of input is first person (your mech)... the second is a static aerial view. The two pieces of information are now fundamentally disconnected and optimal processing is now impaired.

You're not going to have any appreciation of this experience if you were unable to process it in the first place. So, if you don't get it, forget it. Your experience will be the same, I guess.

[Accused]

If there was only some other way to orient yourself like force feedback, animated movement scheme on your control panels, a directional arrow that didn't disappear on hills or in white terrain, etc etc.

What we got was something that wasn't tested and certainly never made it's way to the test server and was thought good enough by the people who made this game to go live without any input from people who played this game (or were given feedback and promptly ignored.)

PGI (Russ) even knew something like this would happen, the community knew there was going to be a hotfix when the last town hall played, and it still made it to the live servers.

Where is the oversight? Yeah, I'm not going to be playing much until it's fixed because it's ******** pure and simple.

[Frack the System]

Add me plz, thx.

[Yellonet]

What's this? The local emo-I'm-a-victim list?

[Belacose]

What's the point of keeping all this going? Surreal enjoyment of argument? Vanity?

Yellonet, on 22 June 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

What's this? The local emo-I'm-a-victim list?

Edited by Belacose, 22 June 2016 - 03:26 PM.

[Genghis Prawn]

The mini map pre-patch was a tactical display while the battlegrid is a strategic display. The post-patch mini map is now a strategic display and as such is now wasted critical screen space in a tactical situation. It takes too long to get oriented to be useful in a rapidly changing tactical situation. I used the mini map for quick orientation to nearby enemy and friendly positions (as that is what i needed in the tactical situation) and then acted as needed. Now it is confusing and disorienting (i know it is changing to a more tactical display but not fully reverting to what it was). I don't want a strategic map on my valuable screen space when i am fighting for my mechs existence .. it obscures my lower view for shooting down with my arm weapons. A tactical map i can accept even though i prefer to be able to see light mechs that are close to me .. a strategic map is completely useless to me in that situation and for most of the fight i am in. I understand they have a vision for informational technology .. however in my experiences in drops the best drop leaders never use the map markers .. all orders are given verbally thru voice (either ingame voice for pug matches or private comms for group drops) so i tend to ignore map markers .. they are distracting from the fight i am in. If i don't have the time to bring up the battlegrid to see markers .. i don't have time to pay attention to markers on a strategic map that disorients me in a fight. Smart phone GPS orients to the viewer and direction of movement .. Auto GPS orients to the viewer and direction of travel .. movement and location is intuitive ... overview maps can be brought up and used or referenced if desired .. the post patch map is counter intuitive and not useful in a rapid nearby battle situation. In the few drops i made i found the only way i could play was to ignore the map altogether and try to use sound cues ... if i am ignoring the map it defeats the purpose the developers intended. Someone posts a help marker ... i can't find them .. so what good does it do? .. so i ignore it ... and what good does that do? The importance of an applications GUI is that it needs to be intuitive .. the coolest GUI is useless if the users can't use it and stop using the application .... if I have learned anything from application development is that the UI must be intuitive to both new users and users of previous versions and competing applications.

PGI .. don't lose site of intuitive GUIs in the process of developing and implementing a vision

Edited by Genghis Prawn, 22 June 2016 - 03:30 PM.