175 replies to this topic

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Pariah Devalis, on 02 July 2016 - 03:07 AM, said:

A crow killing medium? Hm... I suspect one such mech should be around 55 tons, reasonably fast, quirked for durability, maybe carry ECM, and can pack ample close range firepower.

Oh.... Wait. The Griffin 2N already exists.

I don't normally say this, but "git gud." In the 55 and below range, IS mediums have better tools available to squish Clan mediums. Better autocannons, tighter clustering SRMs, much higher durability quirks, and Clans are far more vulnerable to flamers than the IS are due to lower heat caps and hotter guns. All of which that has a far higher rate of fire and better damage application than streakcrows. Aim for legs and you almost cannot lose. Almost.

The GRF-3M is actually better thanks to much better tankiness. The 2N is close, but not the best.

[Kmieciu]

Ok.

Now let's talk about stopping 4 Stormcrows , each armed with 5xASRM6. It's got more alpha and comparable DPS to the best IS mediums.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Really tough...Probably gotta go full Griffin/HBK-4SP and shoot legs alone, and even then, idk,

Best bet is probably 4GRF-3M with 2flamers and 4SRM4, going somewhere around 110, and abusing the JJs.

Or if it's gather, just bring 4 lolcusts and enjoy clanner tears. I think the LCT-1V might actually have a really good chance if that happens. Stay outta that 297, shoot the legs off with 0.3 duration LPLs.

quirked IS MPLs with precise leg aim might also stand a good chance (BJ-1X, for one).

Honestly though, no team runs a full 5XSRM6 stormcrow deck.

[Kmieciu]

Keshav Murali, on 07 July 2016 - 01:02 AM, said:

Honestly though, no team runs a full 5XA-SRM6 stormcrow deck.

It was a 4x Splatcrow premade that ended my crew's winning streak.

We had GRF-3M, HBK-4SP, 2xCN9-AH and farmed the clan pugs hard until we met those guys. It was the one and only match where my Cent was cored. One second I have CT armor, the next I got hit by 2 60 DMG alphas and bite the dust.

These guys were dedicated. Did not even collect any intel until they dispatched us.

When my corp switches sides I'm willing to try an even more nasty Stormcrow build: 6xFlamer 4xSRM6+A 15 DHS. 6 C-Flamers weigh as much as 3 IS flamers and can instantly bring the the enemy heat to 90%.

Edited by Kmieciu, 07 July 2016 - 03:10 AM.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Kmieciu, on 07 July 2016 - 03:04 AM, said:

It was a 4x Splatcrow premade that ended my crew's winning streak.

We had GRF-3M, HBK-4SP, 2xCN9-AH and farmed the clan pugs hard until we met those guys. It was the one and only match where my Cent was cored. One second I have CT armor, the next I got hit by 2 60 DMG alphas and bite the dust.

These guys were dedicated. Did not even collect any intel until they dispatched us.

When my corp switches sides I'm willing to try an even more nasty Stormcrow build: 6xFlamer 4xSRM6+A 15 DHS. 6 C-Flamers weigh as much as 3 IS flamers and can instantly bring the the enemy heat to 90%.

Well, I guess it's unfortunate then...I did not see more than one splat crow a team at most when I was Kurita the day before.

6 Flamers? yeah, that will be ridiculous..

[WANTED]

Most teams that rocked me were running a compliment of clan mechs, hunchieiic with 2xLbx-20s and sitting back hammering us while engaged with combo SRM crows or nova with a ton of smpls. Then add in jennerIIc. Hard to beat

[MischiefSC]

Due to lighter weapons and half-space endo/FF good Omnis and IIC Clan mechs are especially effective in lighter tonnages. It's always been the case, it's just not as relevant in Invasion where IS can stack heavier tonnage and Clans focus on 3xheavies and a medium or 4xheavies.

The arguments about 'oh, IS mediums are just as good at scouting' are the same arguments as 'KDK3 isn't better than the other assaults, you just have to know how to beat it'.

The extra structure on a Griffin is irrelevant if it takes 1 more hit while closing than it's able to give out when the brawl starts. In terms of actual value the Griffin has about 20 pts of additional structure. 1/2 to 1/3rd of an alpha from most Clan mediums (and lights). It's got a max range of 270m, less with the flamers. So if you get hit 1x beyond 270m, 1 hit, your 'extra tankiness' is lost. used up. Expended.

The 3M is better against most Clan heavies than it is against most mediums, save the ERSL/SPL Nova - if he can get the drop on it. If he can't the Nova will core him in 1 hit generally.

So at best a 4man IS team of skilled players vs a 4man team of skilled Clan players is pretty well balanced. If you have the skills to keep a fight in the IS mechs optimal range and situation and have great coordination you can do fine against Clan mediums.

If, however, the IS team isn't a very well coordinated team who understands exactly how to play it they're going to be at a significant disadvantage against even an equally mediocre Clan team. Skillcrows are not bad - not great, but not bad. Even in a 4man (especially in a 4man). The ability to puke up 240 pts at 400m that's 100% going to hit, even if it splatters, that's about 70% of the total point value of a 3M Griffin. Your odds are about 50% that you'll completely cripple or kill said Griffin with 1 coordinated Streak burst, turning the fight into 3v4 before the IS team is even firing a shot.

Hence the balance issues. If the IS side has many pugs playing (which they absolutely will) the imbalance exceeds what coordinated teams can keep up with. Clan bads and mediocres have an edge against IS bads and mediocres if they don't bring terrible mechs.

The question isn't 'how does a decent 4man team beat Scrows'. The question is 'how do mediocre IS pugs beat Scrows'.

[Joey Tankblaster]

@MischiefSC

*sarcasmmodeon*

GET GUD or L2p



*sarcasmmodeoff*

[Albino Boo]

MischiefSC, on 07 July 2016 - 04:46 AM, said:

The question isn't 'how does a decent 4man team beat Scrows'. The question is 'how do mediocre IS pugs beat Scrows'.

If IS pugs all ran ECM mechs, the average Scrow pug won't get locks.

[Count Zero 74]

Save CW !! Remove Clans !!

[Ironic Quark]

Albino Boo, on 07 July 2016 - 05:45 AM, said:

If IS pugs all ran ECM mechs, the average Scrow pug won't get locks.

Yes, and Griffin 2N is more than enough.

Edited by Ironic Quark, 07 July 2016 - 09:51 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Albino Boo, on 07 July 2016 - 05:45 AM, said:

If IS pugs all ran ECM mechs, the average Scrow pug won't get locks.

Are you... really?

Clan BAP.

If you don't have one on any mech you take in FW pugging you're bad. If you're in a 4man with no streaks, no need. Otherwise everyone should have BAP.

ECM is only 90m too and you're going to be faster. It's a pretty minimal impact on streaks

[R3av3r]

MischiefSC, on 07 July 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

Are you... really?

Clan BAP.

If you don't have one on any mech you take in FW pugging you're bad. If you're in a 4man with no streaks, no need. Otherwise everyone should have BAP.

ECM is only 90m too and you're going to be faster. It's a pretty minimal impact on streaks

Also, streak crows mount TAG. Which, you know, beats ECM.

[AnimePops]

After playing 10 loss games trying different things, my idea would be to reduce the clan streaks to 270 like the IS. Your not going to get rid of them by going to 45, you still will have Shadowcat's doing the same dang thing. We tried to out range them. We tired to out DPS them. We tried to brawl them with Griffans. We tried to leg them.... Only other idea I can think of is play the ECM passive scout and LRM Medium Hybrids.

[Vxheous]

Northern Nomad, on 30 June 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

Yeah, but twenty seconds into the fight it will be 3v4, then 2v4.. etc. You're losing mechs too quickly to win.

I'm not a bad player, my KDR is 1.61, but I have yet to win a scouting match today, so far I've played ten.

20 seconds into the fight, you should have at least one of them dead if not two of them dead as well

[MischiefSC]

Anunaki, on 07 July 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

After playing 10 loss games trying different things, my idea would be to reduce the clan streaks to 270 like the IS. Your not going to get rid of them by going to 45, you still will have Shadowcat's doing the same dang thing. We tried to out range them. We tired to out DPS them. We tried to brawl them with Griffans. We tried to leg them.... Only other idea I can think of is play the ECM passive scout and LRM Medium Hybrids.

Was thinking on this. Streak range to 270 like every other SRM and possibly dialing speed back a tiny bit to make AMS more effective vs them.

Not a bad balance solution to ssrms at all.

[Hit the Deck]

For PUGging, on average it's almost impossible to counter massed Streakcrows. Note that I'm talking about PUGs and average results here.

As for your individual effort, bringing flamers helps because firing those Streaks is hot.

[Insufficient Skill]

Depends. On pilots first and foremost. On map, on win conditions. Today I discovered on Polar Highlands, that my LCT-1V actually runs faster backwards than a skillcrow forward. And of course my LPL beats the clan's Streaks in terms of range (esp. extended range). So, there were some nice an easy kills, especially when I was on Gather Intel and they had to try and kill me.

[Jon Gotham]

Kmieciu, on 07 July 2016 - 12:32 AM, said:

Ok.

Now let's talk about stopping 4 Stormcrows , each armed with 5xASRM6. It's got more alpha and comparable DPS to the best IS mediums.

4 Skillgriffs are equally as bad, if not worse due to better survivability. that "more alpha" is usually one extra launcher, with a worse dispersion/spread. Couple that with no structure quirks.....
I just don't get where the clan superiority mantra is coming from.....

[Stikyard]

Lets not forget how easy it is to build an IS mech badly.

IS cant lock and spam, shooting legs with an AC 20 isn't very easy... well compared to auto hit streaks.

This is nothing new and now that our newer Steam players have experienced Faction in all it's glory, can we finally put that last nail in the coffin?