183 replies to this topic

[Mudhutwarrior]

nehebkau, on 18 July 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

So, in other words, PGI isn't acting very Canadian -- eh?

LOL, Being french I know that the french are never welcoming and never have been. We will take you money sure but then ask you to leave. It's like that for Parisian french and Canadians to a slightly lesser degree.

[JaxRiot]

nehebkau, on 18 July 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

So, in other words, PGI isn't acting very Canadian -- eh?

I think PIG relocated to North Korea, which would explain a lot.

Someone is going through these threads and being very gratuitous with the delete/censorship button.

They dont want to communicate, or hear our ideas, and especially dont want to see any criticism.

Which seems kind of odd to me since the Devs dont even use these forums any way. So why would they even care?

They just want us to shut up and buy Mech Packs.

Ya.. Not very Canadian at all.

Edited by JaxRiot, 18 July 2016 - 08:19 AM.

[RedDragon]

Well, to be honest, I never understood how Andi became a Mod in the first place. He was/is a nice and likeable guy, but he formatted all his texts as if they were poems and used random capitalization. I always thought if he had to communicate with me in an official matter, I wouldn't be able to take him seriously because of that. For someone who in some way represents a company, there should be some professional standards when it comes to communication. On the other hand ... well, it's PGI, perfectly fits with their "don't care" attitude.

That aside, I find it a bit ridiculous that they "fired" their mods without thinking twice about it because of such a rather small reason. The guys put a lot of work into the forums, so at least they could have gotten away with a warning this time.

[Novakaine]

I imagine PGI HQ is like the HQ of a certain country in a certain war.
Sixty odd years ago.
The Captains and the Generals saying we should'nt do this or don't do that.
A lot of screaming and ranting ensues.
And people are sent to the unemployment firing squad.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Xocoyol Zaraoul, on 17 July 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

Source?

One of the mods via TS.

He is currently unable to post here at all, pending feedback on his rebuttal/request for readmission.

[Rebas Kradd]

JaxRiot, on 18 July 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

I think PIG relocated to North Korea, which would explain a lot.

Someone is going through these threads and being very gratuitous with the delete/censorship button.

They dont want to communicate, or hear our ideas, and especially dont want to see any criticism.

In that case they're pretty incompetent, because 95% of the criticism is still around. Up to and including the post I just quoted.

I think it's more likely that what some people call "communicating" or "sharing ideas" is actually juvenile and abrasive ranting, and deserves the deletion it gets. That's been the case with Outreach: that sub is actually full of criticism, much of it from the mods themselves, and most of the people who accused them of censoring criticism were actually just posting empty bile and couldn't tell the difference, or didn't want to.

Look, guys...Derek overstepped his bounds and admitted it. He used his mod position to try to act as an unofficial community manager/player advocate, and got snipped for it. There are plenty of boards out there who would do the exact same thing. He owned up to it, why can't you?

[RedDragon]

Novakaine, on 18 July 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

I imagine PGI HQ is like the HQ of a certain country in a certain war.
Sixty odd years ago.
The Captains and the Generals saying we should'nt do this or don't do that.
A lot of screaming and ranting ensues.
And people are sent to the unemployment firing squad.

I can't count the times this meme fitted perfectly to how I imagine PGI makes decisions ...

[Bishop Steiner]

Rebas Kradd, on 18 July 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

Look, guys...Derek overstepped his bounds and admitted it. He used his mod position to try to act as an unofficial community manager/player advocate, and got snipped for it. There are plenty of boards out there who would do the exact same thing. He owned up to it, why can't you?

End of the day the Derek/Andi thing is a symptom. Not the problem.

The Problem is for the last 4 years, PGI has done a singularly terrible job communicating with their playerbase in any meaningful way.

The Community Manager is invisible.

One of the "Big Three" of the Devs has been MIA for years.

The other seems to spend his time playing Candy Crush, Stalking the invisible Community Manager, and playing with the Dartboard of Destiny.

The "Visible" one seems more interested in belittling his playerbase, then halfheartedly pushing through fixes we the community came up with 4 years ago... and pretending PGI came up with the idea.

Few are denying that Derek overstepped, and got his wings clipped. But what is being lamented is that when the community tries to have any kind of dialogue with PGI, we get told to shut up and buy mech packs.

RedDragon, on 18 July 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

I can't count the times this meme fitted perfectly to how I imagine PGI makes decisions ...

lol. So true.

BTW about your siggy? Bryan was right about when Community Warfare would start rolling out. This Community has been fighting itself since early 2013. You just thought he was referring to ingame community warfare....

[Sjorpha]

RedDragon, on 18 July 2016 - 08:48 AM, said:

That aside, I find it a bit ridiculous that they "fired" their mods without thinking twice about it because of such a rather small reason. The guys put a lot of work into the forums, so at least they could have gotten away with a warning this time.

The thing is 95% of that "work" they can do just as well without being mods, which is exactly why they shouldn't be mods.

You don't want forum warriors to also be moderators of a forum, no matter how nice and constructive they are. If someone is a resources in terms of community work they are better suited to do that instead of moderating.

This isn't a slight against Andi or Derek, I wouldn't be a good mod either for exactly the same reasons. You have to choose to some degree what your role is on a forum, being a good mod requires you to maintain a fairly stoic and neutral behavior, if you want to be more opinionated and driven that's great but then someone else should be doing the moderating.

These forums could really use better moderation, but that is also about setting a good practice more than about who moderates. There doesn't seem to be a consistent praxis here. Problematic threads are locked, deleted or ktowned for example seemingly arbitrarily and with little explanation, which makes people feel they can't trust the authorities, it would be much better if there was just one consistent action taken instead. i would also like to see temporary mutes for people out of hand with a muted badge shown rather than the all or nothing bans.

[cazidin]

RedDragon, on 18 July 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

I can't count the times this meme fitted perfectly to how I imagine PGI makes decisions ...

Why is The Doctor an office manager? Did he forget who he was, again? Oh. And did that guy live?

Bishop Steiner, on 18 July 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

End of the day the Derek/Andi thing is a symptom. Not the problem.

The Problem is for the last 4 years, PGI has done a singularly terrible job communicating with their playerbase in any meaningful way.

The Community Manager is invisible.

One of the "Big Three" of the Devs has been MIA for years.

The other seems to spend his time playing Candy Crush, Stalking the invisible Community Manager, and playing with the Dartboard of Destiny.

The "Visible" one seems more interested in belittling his playerbase, then halfheartedly pushing through fixes we the community came up with 4 years ago... and pretending PGI came up with the idea.

Few are denying that Derek overstepped, and got his wings clipped. But what is being lamented is that when the community tries to have any kind of dialogue with PGI, we get told to shut up and buy mech packs.

Absolutely correct, Bishop. That's why we need a new Moderator. Somebody who talks with the community. Somebody who is intelligent. Somebody... like me. Vote for me as Supreme Community Moderator?

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 18 July 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

Why is The Doctor an office manager? Did he forget who he was, again? Oh. And did that guy live?



Absolutely correct, Bishop. That's why we need a new Moderator. Somebody who talks with the community. Somebody who is intelligent. Somebody... like me. Vote for me as Supreme Community Moderator?

Well here's the thing. We don't need a new Moderator. That is not the Moderators job, which is what got Derek and Andi into their pickle. Moderators really are here to be seen, work in the shadows to keep things orderly, and not to be heard. They are NOT agents of change. They are supposed to be agents of order.

If you want to be an Agent of Change, in fact it's pretty incumbent one NOT be a Mod.

No. What we need is a Community Manager who interacts with the Community. One that is allowed to by the Powers That Be.

None of us really know what Tina's job duties are, what the bosses allow, etc. What we do know, is that for whatever reason, actualyl interacting with the community in a meaningful manner has never been encouraged of that post in the 4 years of MWO.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 July 2016 - 09:39 AM.

[JaxRiot]

cazidin, on 18 July 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

That's why we need a new Moderator. Somebody who talks with the community. Somebody who is intelligent. Somebody... like me. Vote for me as Supreme Community Moderator?

Mods who communicate with the community end up getting fired, dont they?

But hey, have you seen the newest Mech Pack for sale?

[cazidin]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 July 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

Well here's the thing. We don't need a new Moderator. That is not the Moderators job, which is what got Derek and Andi into their pickle. Moderators really are here to be seen, work in the shadows to keep things orderly, and not to be heard. They are NOT agents of change. They are supposed to be agents of order.

If you want to be an Agent of Change, in fact it's pretty incumbent one NOT be a Mod.

No. What we need is a Community Manager who interacts with the Community. One that is allowed to by the Powers That Be.

None of us really know what Tina's job duties are, what the bosses allow, etc. What we do know, is that for whatever reason, actualyl interacting with the community in a meaningful manner has never been encouraged of that post in the 4 years of MWO.

Alright. I'll just change it to Supreme Community Manager. Tina can keep her job.

(Though I appreciate your answer, my comment wasn't meant to be taken too seriously. Your point is very similar to mine, though. We have a community manager who doesn't seem to do very much. Yes. She posts when it's necessary but we don't see much interaction from her. Derek, an unpaid moderator, created new topics of discussion far more often.)

JaxRiot, on 18 July 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

Mods who communicate with the community end up getting fired, dont they?

But hey, have you seen the newest Mech Pack for sale?

I'll communicate that there's a new mech pack for sale. I think that's a reasonable compromise.

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 18 July 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

Alright. I'll just change it to Supreme Community Manager. Tina can keep her job.

(Though I appreciate your answer, my comment wasn't meant to be taken too seriously. Your point is very similar to mine, though. We have a community manager who doesn't seem to do very much. Yes. She posts when it's necessary but we don't see much interaction from her. Derek, an unpaid moderator, created new topics of discussion far more often.)



I'll communicate that there's a new mech pack for sale. I think that's a reasonable compromise.

Yes, one would think a CM would be organizing bake sales, polls, etc. Getting a feel for the pulse of the community and what they want, to present to PGI to see what aspects might dovetail with their vision and plan.

[cazidin]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 July 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

Yes, one would think a CM would be organizing bake sales, polls, etc. Getting a feel for the pulse of the community and what they want, to present to PGI to see what aspects might dovetail with their vision and plan.

Careful, Bishop. If PGI read their own forums they might take that idea seriously and use Tina's cute factor to sell cheaply made baked goods like pies, muffins, etc. Or maybe I took the wrong message from that? I hunger now...

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 July 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

Yes, one would think a CM would be organizing bake sales, polls, etc. Getting a feel for the pulse of the community and what they want, to present to PGI to see what aspects might dovetail with their vision and plan.

To date, I don't recall any community manager that PGI has put into that position that has accomplished that.

This actually suggests that the purpose of the community manager is not what we think it to be.

[Rebas Kradd]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 July 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

End of the day the Derek/Andi thing is a symptom. Not the problem.

The Problem is for the last 4 years, PGI has done a singularly terrible job communicating with their playerbase in any meaningful way.

Yes and no.

Most people have "not communicating" and "not implementing my pet idea" confused. For some, if their preferred suggestion doesn't get a personal acknowledgement from a dev and an immediate spot on next month's docket, then PGI "Didn't Listen™".

The reality is, PGI gets 500 proposals a day, mostly repeats of what was said yesterday. They cannot possibly do all of them at once, or even all of them in a year, and in fact already have a full docket at any given moment. Any "communication" from PGI would probably be simply repeating that reality. It wouldn't make anyone happy.

There are other ways PGI has screwed the pooch on communication, yes. The recent tournament comes to mind - PGI actively solicits feedback then fails to implement any of it. IF THEY ENGAGE IN DEBATE, then yeah, it becomes them to discuss the ideas that were presented. PGI lacking any kind of Q&A venue right now really hurts them. It could provide official answers to a lot of common questions (like why they don't allow community-made maps).

[dervishx5]

Why am I still not banned?

[cazidin]

Should I be worried? I see atleast 2 different moderators checking on this topic every few hours.

[Rebas Kradd]

dervishx5, on 18 July 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Why am I still not banned?

Because despite popular opinion, PGI doesn't really censor all that much.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 18 July 2016 - 10:06 AM.