185 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

Deathlike, on 27 July 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

I don't think there were bad agendas necessarily... but just ideas to throw out there as potential options to be visited. It's a brainstorm, not a poopstorm. Of course not all ideas are great either...



It's kinda hard to jump on into the middle of something like that. Better to relisten to it, but I think there was some list, but I don't think it was made available to everyone.




Oh noes, what am I going to do with this dark grey suit?



Seriously though, I still have this lingering fear in the back of my head where I read the notes to the round table and find out how much PGI isn't willing to do.

Some of the ideas were bad. Like getting rid of some stuff... that was extremely important and fine.

That was kinda pushing an agenda to be honest on some cases.

and I called for a recap after they were done with the CW/FP talk. Nada. :c

as for that suit, I prefer my grey one thank you very much.

As far as what PGI will do, it's what they're willing to do. Tonight was a 130 turnout. tomorrow we'll have up toaybe 500-1000 people there since it's going to be big.

Either way, I hope it turns out alright. I swear to god, I hope it goes well. Double or nothing as they say...

[Scout Derek]

AnTi90d, on 27 July 2016 - 08:56 PM, said:

I don't really like the combine the queues idea.. and it would involve PGI recoding a good bit of their current queue system.

I do want to see alliances implemented, but I don't think we should be able to vote for them. What if everyone just votes for the faction that's next to theirs, clockwise? What if two high population factions get together and decide to ally, screwing over all the other factions for their own benefit? Having them set by the system seems like it would be both easier to implement and prevent abuse.

No one on coms spoke up for the benefit of the solo loyalist / freelancer / general pug. Maybe because no one invited them, just like none are invited tomorrow. If your whole roundtable is populated by large units from high pop factions, your ideas will probably be to your own benefit and to the detriment of everyone else forced to sit at the back of the bus.

I'm starting to think that none of this matters. People aren't putting their own self interests aside to save the mode; they're just grandstanding to secure more benefits for themselves or wasting everyone's time with grandiose wishes.

I don't like combining ques either, it will take time and may not turn out so good.

As for the loopholes, it seemed more of an ideal than an concept, something new that seemingly they thought of or heard in the chat.

As for lone wolf talk, I would have liked to see one been in there talking as well, if there was I didn't know they were there or not.



I know whatever happens tomorrow though, we will know who wants what, and why.

Once I know this I'll be deciding who I will fight for.

[N0MAD]

You seem to think that there are thousands of QP players that dont have mechs or experience in CW, i would imagine most QP players have tried CW have dozens if not hundreds of mechs, they simply do not want to play CW and forcing CW on them in the guise of an event wont sway them, sure they will go take the bribe shiny offered but then its back to QP, because well they have tried CW they got the equipment the money but..just dont want to play it,, do you know why they dont play it?, i know why i dont play it cant say everyone else feels the same. But we are not going to find out why they dont play, this round table was just about what current players want for the mode.

[Dino Might]

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__5314291

[Deathlike]

AnTi90d, on 27 July 2016 - 08:56 PM, said:

I don't really like the combine the queues idea.. and it would involve PGI recoding a good bit of their current queue system.

I do want to see alliances implemented, but I don't think we should be able to vote for them. What if everyone just votes for the faction that's next to theirs, clockwise? What if two high population factions get together and decide to ally, screwing over all the other factions for their own benefit? Having them set by the system seems like it would be both easier to implement and prevent abuse.

No one on coms spoke up for the benefit of the solo loyalist / freelancer / general pug. Maybe because no one invited them, just like none are invited tomorrow. If your whole roundtable is populated by large units from high pop factions, your ideas will probably be to your own benefit and to the detriment of everyone else forced to sit at the back of the bus.

I'm starting to think that none of this matters. People aren't putting their own self interests aside to save the mode; they're just grandstanding to secure more benefits for themselves or wasting everyone's time with grandiose wishes.

I personally don't like the idea to combine the queues. However, the concept isn't a bad idea as that may actually be necessary.

Not to say Steam numbers are everything, but just amuse yourself with the idea that we are averaging 1k players online more or less daily. By just sheer math.. since we have 10 factions, you are effectively averaging 100 players PER FACTION. You can justify whatever multiplier the Steam #s relative to actual numbers, but remember that FW is fighting against people doing QP.

That's why it becomes problematic.

Even if Steam is only 10% of the playerbase (this means you multiply the average # of players by 9, because the rest would be 9/10 of the population), that would still be rather problematic if only 10% of those are only playing FW generally speaking.

See, math really doesn't work for you until people are interested in the mode itself... which in itself is a problem.

Procurator Derek, on 27 July 2016 - 08:58 PM, said:

Some of the ideas were bad. Like getting rid of some stuff... that was extremely important and fine.

That was kinda pushing an agenda to be honest on some cases.

and I called for a recap after they were done with the CW/FP talk. Nada. :c

as for that suit, I prefer my grey one thank you very much.

As far as what PGI will do, it's what they're willing to do. Tonight was a 130 turnout. tomorrow we'll have up toaybe 500-1000 people there since it's going to be big.

Either way, I hope it turns out alright. I swear to god, I hope it goes well. Double or nothing as they say...

You weren't going to get a recap - you couldn't really spend all that time in general chat for that. There's literally so much to be said, let alone on the table, to warrant a live recap.

If you get cliff notes for it, you would be better served IMO.

[Scout Derek]

Deathlike, on 27 July 2016 - 09:08 PM, said:

You weren't going to get a recap - you couldn't really spend all that time in general chat for that. There's literally so much to be said, let alone on the table, to warrant a live recap.

If you get cliff notes for it, you would be better served IMO.

I'll probably have to watch it again....

So much fluff.....

:')

[Deathlike]

Procurator Derek, on 27 July 2016 - 09:11 PM, said:

I'll probably have to watch it again....

So much fluff.....

:')

I could give you a list of a few things covered, based on memory.

One of the things discussed was allowing to use unit coffers to be able to buy mechs "for the unit". It's an expansion of the Trial Mech idea, except that the unit owns the mech (and the mechbays I guess) that allow for the unit to build up a dropdeck for a new player... for FW or otherwise and learn what is expected of the build (no lurms plz?). You could possibly paint it with the unit colors (and add a camo, because... why not?) but it's the idea to supplement people to learn to play the game that recently joined the unit.


There was a small segment in figuring out how to restrict new players from getting into FW immediately.. the need to handhold them so they don't get a terribly bad experience for the first time (and it's not easy). References to a FW Tutorial was made (gee, where have I heard this before...).


There was a small discussion about the Long Tom (mostly in favor of removing it, and replacing it with something worth reaching for).


There was a side discussion about dropship spawn points - the idea that you can position the dropship optimally away from the enemy, especially in a camping situation.. which was semi-allievated in Phase 2, but still not an option. I don't even understand why there aren't selectable dropship spawns really.


There was a specific discussion about Scouting mode - the win condition for those going away with Intel. The problem was that the scouting team won by default when standing in the dropship zone when time was in and was being contested by the opfor.

Some ideas were to tweak that, that like capping Intel, the mech that arrives @ the dropship must be in that circle for X # of seconds (3 to 5 seconds or whatever) like when you were downloading the Intel. A variation would involve the time spent in that circle relative to how many Intel points were collected (like 1 second per Intel point, though maybe realistically .5 seconds per Intel point). It wouldn't be a instant win for the Scouting team for that instance (for the mechs left to goto the dropship needs to be able to survive those precious seconds after all).


That's a few things I recall anyways (had a convo with a friend about the event, so I'm referring to the limited log that I have on it).

[Cy Mitchell]

What boggled my mind was that people almost seemed OK with the current maps and mode. Sure, there were calls for new maps and some talk about added objectives. But new maps will take months if not years. Same for new modes. At least that is the case if the maps and modes are FP exclusive. Yet I heard very little talk about bringing the QP maps and modes over to FP where the could be included in the planets conquest. These are assets that have already been produced and can be put into FP in a relatively short amount of time.

One of the biggest reasons that I see sighted for people not playing FP is that the maps suck, the objectives suck and it is not fun. (I am included in the group that feels this way.) Most the people that say that like playing QP. It seems obvious to me that to get more people in FP you include what is good about QP into FP and then make it mean something in the grand scheme of galactic conquest. Easy peezee fix!

Why did I not hear this suggested by this panel?

Added: Leave QP as it is to act as a training ground for FP. Better yet, add the FP maps and invasion mode to QP without the re-spawn deck and let it be the true training ground for the "real" game. I have now said this in all the Roundtable threads so I am done suggesting it.

[Deathlike]

Rampage, on 27 July 2016 - 09:25 PM, said:

What boggled my mind was that people almost seemed OK with the current maps and mode. Sure, there were calls for new maps and some talk about added objectives. But new maps will take months if not years. Same for new modes. At least that is the case if the maps and modes are FP exclusive. Yet I heard very little talk about bringing the QP maps and modes over to FP where the could be included in the planets conquest. These are assets that have already been produced and can be put into FP in a relatively short amount of time.

One of the biggest reasons that I see sighted for people not playing FP is that the maps suck, the objectives suck and it is not fun. (I am included in the group that feels this way.) Most the people that say that like playing QP. It seems obvious to me that to get more people in FP you include what is good about QP into FP and then make it mean something in the grand scheme of galactic conquest. Easy peezee fix!

Why did I not hear this suggested by this panel?

Added: Leave QP as it is to act as a training ground for FP. Better yet, add the FP maps and invasion mode to QP without the re-spawn deck and let it be the true training ground for the "real" game. I have now said this in all the Roundtable threads so I am done suggesting it.

There were discussions about that actually.

The problem though is trying to figure out at a solution (optimal or otherwise).

For instance, Counter Attack is still awful, and it's a race to 48 or 30m, whichever comes first.

Most matches favor the Defense (if you're in the base) naturally... with problematic kill zones.

There were ideas involving Domination in a 4v4 version where it would be more like a seesaw battle of some sort instead of what we see in Quick Play. This would be for an alternative mode for 4v4 Scouting.


The fact that it was even discussed that there should be a Tutorial for the modes (and our potatoes need them)... it wasn't like things weren't covered... even if not enough time was spent on them.

[Sader325]

Twitch Links With Recorded Twitch Chat:

https://www.twitch.t...r325/v/80358171

https://www.twitch.t...r325/v/80361502

Edited by Sader325, 27 July 2016 - 09:47 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

It's kind of funny, most peeps I know say the attackers have the advantage cause all they have to go for is objective, hence why gen rushing to in is a thing. Deathlike says matches favor defense, if your in the base. I see it as attackers advantage cause teams attack and generally pugs defend.

This is solely due to bad map design. We dont actually have bases, what we have is a couple of gated choke points denying entry to a big *** Gauss gun surrounded by gens with a few turrets stuck in for good measure.

My idea is to use the QP maps with the new assault bases, as something surrounded by destructible walls seems like more of a base to me, let there be buildings inside for cover, ramps that allow peaking over the walls, turrets on top of the walls for flavor. Make the turrets the old kind we had on assault mode, lrm 5's with med lasors. This er large things is annoying. The dropships need to be sorted out, if they have no LOS on the enemy, they shouldnt be shooting into walls, that is shoddy programming and can potentially hurt their own team, nor should they be hitting you from 2 zones away from the spawn site.

Spawn points need to not have walls that mechs can climb up and snipe/lurm from, this only encourages spawn camping from both sides. Something like when you drop, you have 20-30 seconds to exit the spawn area or your mech just blows up (bad I know but the best I can come up with at short notice).

Alliances are great, let the peeps down south have some fun with clans, if they want. The main issue as far as im concerned is game play, we have had the same stagnant style of choke point warrior for a few years now and it is basically as boring as batshit. As a DC all you have to know is a few set plays and unless you are playing against an uber team, you get the win.

Until game play changes to dynamic and not set plays, we might as well just bash our head against a wall, tis the same thing.

Thats all for now.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 27 July 2016 - 09:52 PM.

[Scout Derek]

Sader325, on 27 July 2016 - 09:42 PM, said:

Twitch Links With Recorded Twitch Chat:

https://www.twitch.t...r325/v/80358171

https://www.twitch.t...r325/v/80361502

Much obliged for the links Sader.

[JaxRiot]

Ive been reading some of these ideas that were discussed since.

They seem like some pretty costly and time consuming ideas.

I thought they were wanting more simple and immediate ideas?

[meteorol]

What really holds CW back are the terrible, terrible maps. Some of the worst mapdesign i have seen in any game i played online, ever.

All ideas about resources, rewards etc. are mood as long as maps aren't fixed. People won't magically start playing CW if the maps stay as terrible as they are. The core gameplay of CW is critically flawed, which is the reason why it was a bust from the very first second.

Fixing maps should be their first and highest priority before everything else.

[Deathlike]

Carl Vickers, on 27 July 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

It's kind of funny, most peeps I know say the attackers have the advantage cause all they have to go for is objective, hence why gen rushing to in is a thing. Deathlike says matches favor defense, if your in the base. I see it as attackers advantage cause teams attack and generally pugs defend.

In context, matches favor defense when both teams are evenly matched. You have funnels, turrets, and pretty much stuff in the way for the attackers. I agree with the overall sentiment that the defense have the advantage.

It's more of a skill/understanding mismatch that happens a lot by design. If PUGs knew where to line up properly (know where the chokepoints are, etc etc.), they wouldn't be rolled the way they do.

When you're doing a gen rush deal, you're usually not as skilled, and even under those circumstances this is still very counterable. For a very good team, it's easy enough to stop a gen rush... primarily the opfor isn't focused on your mech.

It's really a simple concept, but PUGs are not the ones trained or well versed in what needs to happen... and that's why faction hubs are a thing. It's just the passing of that knowledge in order to play better. Still, it's not going to happen overnight.

JaxRiot, on 27 July 2016 - 10:05 PM, said:

Ive been reading some of these ideas that were discussed since.

They seem like some pretty costly and time consuming ideas.

I thought they were wanting more simple and immediate ideas?

To be fair, there are some simpler ideas. The thing is that more complicated things need a good base foundation first.. or it's just not going to work the way you'd like them to.

Edited by Deathlike, 27 July 2016 - 10:22 PM.

[Black Ivan]

N0MAD, on 27 July 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

You seem to think that there are thousands of QP players that dont have mechs or experience in CW, i would imagine most QP players have tried CW have dozens if not hundreds of mechs, they simply do not want to play CW and forcing CW on them in the guise of an event wont sway them, sure they will go take the bribe shiny offered but then its back to QP, because well they have tried CW they got the equipment the money but..just dont want to play it,, do you know why they dont play it?, i know why i dont play it cant say everyone else feels the same. But we are not going to find out why they dont play, this round table was just about what current players want for the mode.

I was thinking something like this too. CW / FW what ever you call it has been tried by many, but only few have stayed. PGI should ask why so many people don't bother to stay in the mode and go to QP or leave the game.

The target should be to make people want to play this mode.

[AnTi90d]

Deathlike, on 27 July 2016 - 10:21 PM, said:

If PUGs knew where to line up properly

Deathlike, on 27 July 2016 - 10:21 PM, said:

If PUGs knew where to line up properly

Deathlike, on 27 July 2016 - 10:21 PM, said:

If PUGs knew where to line up properly

[meteorol]

AnTi90d, on 27 July 2016 - 10:31 PM, said:

Yeah, because PUGs (and by that i mean the terribad ones that are rampant in CW) "totally" had an idea what they had to do before the map was changed.

The new map has zero impact on puggels being unable to learn the few chokepoints every single CW map has. You can learn those by using your eyes. Wouldn't even make a differnce if there was no minimap at all for the issue Deathlike (PUGs not knowing where to line up properly to receive an anticipated push) mentioned.

Edit: i was just assuming you wanted to imply the map has an impact on how PUGs are lining up. If you wanted to explain something else, this post is mood.

Edited by meteorol, 27 July 2016 - 11:43 PM.

[AnTi90d]

The crapmap:

• prevents small group dropcallers from being able to organize pugs because of the lack of spacial relationship and the lack of knowing which way they're even facing. Look at that guy over to the left. Is he sniping or is he looking west? The dropcaller has no idea, because he's currently engaged in trying to not die.

• prevents pugs from knowing if they're correctly lined up with the rest of the people.

• prevents pugs from being able to react to threats that come out of nowhere that their team sees. ECM mech on the hill and the pilots that see it turn around but the pug just continues to look down the hallway because the map doesn't let him know that his team turned around.

You people only see the game through the eyes of someone in a coordinated unit and have no ability to see from the pug's perspective.

[Johnny Z]

I'm glad they are onto faction play. That's excellent late game content, something most games don't add or get wrong.

The problem is players dont have pilot character creation yet. A pilot character that's in a faction. Factions that are not defined, or described even, in any way in game yet. Piloting mechs in a mechbay that players can walk around in, with faction banners on the walls. Basically a lot of what would make characters care about facton play isn't in yet. If those things were in, the content on the galactic war map still needs to be added.

Believe it or not the ground game in faction play is looking amazing if anyone bothers to look ahead a bit. Really, really amazing.

Edited by Johnny Z, 28 July 2016 - 12:16 AM.