84 replies to this topic

[FirstRock]

Mudhutwarrior, on 27 July 2016 - 03:25 AM, said:

No offense but if your a high level player in quick play what do you expect?

Every stinking sport has progression. You don't see little league players playing pros.

Been saying this since the beginning but for some reason top players are stuck in thinking everyone is the same. Their not.

Until you figure this out your lost. Instead you insult and complain when in actuality its the system employed that makes game play terrible for both sides. You cannot change human nature but you can make adjustments for it.

Usually when the sentence starts out "no offence" they offend

[Ghogiel]

Besh, on 27 July 2016 - 05:35 AM, said:

Xcept that was NOT all you were saying .

Honestly, I have games were I do 2digit dmg. and die within 1min. after gamestart, and still see people doing SO horribly stupid things that it makes me call them out in TextChat on occasion . Me taking one wrong turn and dieing to a skilled shooter does not disqualify me from seeing and commenting on glaring mistakes others make .

Raking in high dmg. numbers is SO ridiculously easy in this Game, its not even funny anymore . And you can do it WHILE totally screwing your team . Like people in an "long Range" Assault sitting back 100ms of Meters bhind the actual fight, where Teammembers fight and get killed, contributing nothing, and then afterwards going for the cheap shots/kills .

Saying somebody outperformed someone else basing that on "dmg. done", really does not work .

Ewww. are you one of those players I see doing double digit dmg and dieing and then backseat driving all match, basically insinuating your team doing x y or z is why you lost the match and not your sub par performance hampering the team?

There is no argument to make here. Statistics are pretty clear on this anyway. If your team does more dmg than the other team, it will usually win. So now we have established dmg is quite meaningful to victory, pls don't be that guy with the double digit scrub out and try to be telling people to l2p.

[The Basilisk]

I go full passive when I realize my team is running away or some overexcited GranTourismo drivers starts to yell push push push while the Assaults are 100m away from their drop point and the rest plays lemmingtrain supreme.

Best thing you can do now is standing back and hope those nitwits damage some enemys enough you can at least get a kill out of some damaged mechs comming to search for you.

Edited by The Basilisk, 27 July 2016 - 05:44 AM.

[FirstRock]

Besh, on 27 July 2016 - 03:10 AM, said:

• some do it ("to potatoe") cos they do not know better ;
  
• some do it for statpadding/killeeching ;
  
• some do it because their personal objective is not to assist the Team in winning, but somehow get the most possible rewards for themselves ;
  
• some do it to outright troll the Team ;
  
• some do it cos they think what THEY do is the best course of action ;
  
• some are just too drunk on occasion to be able to do anything usefull ;
  
• some simply dont care for the PUG Matches and want to get as many done as quick as possible to maximise their cbill/exp income re timeframe ;

...or any combination of the above, plus a plethora of things I didnt put into the List .

"some are just too drunk" Me sometimes

[Besh]

Ghogiel, on 27 July 2016 - 05:42 AM, said:

Ewww. are you one of those players I see doing double digit dmg and dieing and then backseat driving all match, basically insinuating your team doing x y or z is why you lost the match and not your sub par performance hampering the team?

There is no argument to make here. Statistics are pretty clear on this anyway. If your team does more dmg than the other team, it will usually win. So now we have established dmg is quite meaningful to victory, pls don't be that guy with the double digit scrub out and try to be telling people to l2p.

"If your Team does more dmg, than the other team, it will usually win", does not imply the higher dmg. = better player . Again, in my Book, LESS damage needed to get the entire enemy Team down is BETTER .

Thinking "high dmg. = better" does not at all reflect actual in Game reality . It is simply driven by the fact that it is a hard number which people can use to claim they are "better", but says not much about their actual contribution to their Team'S performance if looked at isolated .

I am also having this Idea that many people value high dmg. so highly simply because it is within their Agenda of maximising their own, personal rewards...instead of seeing what would actually have been the best for them to do to help their Team winning . They can screw up their Team, in the course rake in high dmg. numbers, and afterwards simply say "STFU, I did more dmg, than you!" .

Dont be that player .

Edited by Besh, 27 July 2016 - 05:52 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Besh, on 27 July 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

I tried to give you an idea of how wrong you are with thinking "If your Team does more dmg. than the other team, it will usually win", by mentioning how we sometimes took out an entire 8men Group in CB needing less than 1k dmg. combined . Thinking "high dmg. = better" does not at all reflect actual in Game reality . It is simply driven by the fact that it is a hardnumber which people can use to claim they are "better", but says not much about their actual contribution to their Team'S performance if looked at isolated .

I am also having this Idea that many people value high dmg. so highly simple because it is within their Agenda of maximising their own, personal rewards...instead of seeing what would actually have been the best for the to do to help their Team winning .

High dmg is essential to carrying. It's probably the most effective way to increase your odds of winning. Sure some people might be doing it for selfish reasons, but the fact is they are likely increasing their W/L by gunning it hard and doing tons of dmg.

[The Basilisk]

Ghogiel, on 27 July 2016 - 05:42 AM, said:

Ewww. are you one of those players I see doing double digit dmg and dieing and then backseat driving all match, basically insinuating your team doing x y or z is why you lost the match and not your sub par performance hampering the team?

There is no argument to make here. Statistics are pretty clear on this anyway. If your team does more dmg than the other team, it will usually win. So now we have established dmg is quite meaningful to victory, pls don't be that guy with the double digit scrub out and try to be telling people to l2p.

One Game 6 killingblows, 6 solokills and 180dmg
How?
Simple, 1 light mech and two meds are going for you and you have flamers equiped. They shut down you laser their heads.
Two other meds stand there with their backs towards you in a frame of buildings firing missiles.
Seems they forgot their back armor.
Last one was a locust that fell down a ridge right in front of my feet, a single sweap with my lasers took care of the rest.

Damage is ...nice but ultimately only the confirmation for the fact you where able to put that crosshair over a target and pull the trigger.

I don't think this topic should be expanded any further damage, kills and other factors form a complex relation that is hard to evaluate correctly.
Damage numbers are only the most obvious factors in that equation but alone ultimatively meaningless.

Edited by The Basilisk, 27 July 2016 - 05:58 AM.

[bayoucowboy]

What Besh said. And I think the rewards for high dmg are greater than the penalties for a loss. and yes, leveling new mechs can suck in QP.

[Davers]

Johnny Z, on 27 July 2016 - 03:29 AM, said:

Actually, on the bright side this up coming podcast reminds me that eventually faction play will be used a lot more and players will eventually get to know other players in their faction and who can be relied on to play their best all the time.

?

Ghogiel, on 27 July 2016 - 05:30 AM, said:

Fact is someone has to be doing the dmg or you can't win.

Well, there are those pesky objectives that win games, but no one cares about those.

[Besh]

Ghogiel, on 27 July 2016 - 05:53 AM, said:

High dmg is essential to carrying. It's probably the most effective way to increase your odds of winning. Sure some people might be doing it for selfish reasons, but the fact is they are likely increasing their W/L by gunning it hard and doing tons of dmg.

Another misconception . Needing to, or basing your PlayStyle around "carrying" is negating one of the most important aspects of MW:O : it is a TeamSport . If 12 people are totally dependent on 1 persons performance, they are more likely to get screwed than not .

[Ghogiel]

Davers, on 27 July 2016 - 05:56 AM, said:

Well, there are those pesky objectives that win games, but no one cares about those.

Yeah the statistics suggest you have to play for killing to maximise your odds of winning.

[Cy Mitchell]

Slicer, on 27 July 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

OP

Well, on the plus side, while you are leveling those sub-par Mechs, you will not be rushed into Tier 2.

I do think that the Leaderboard being posted and people using each others Leaderboards stats against one another on the Forum has made some care about the numbers more and get protective of their KDR. A bit silly but then playing one game and getting a high W/L ratio or KDR and then parking that account for the rest of the month to preserve that top spot seems awful silly to me also but it is happening.

[Ghogiel]

Besh, on 27 July 2016 - 05:59 AM, said:

Another misconception . Needing to, or basing your PlayStyle around "carrying" is negating one of the most important aspects of MW:O : it is a TeamSport . If 12 people are totally dependent on 1 persons performance, they are more likely to get screwed than not .

PUG LIFE is real.

Anyway, carrying does not in anyway preclude or diminish a players ability to use the team resource effectively to drive wins.

[Davers]

Ghogiel, on 27 July 2016 - 05:59 AM, said:

Yeah the statistics suggest you have to play for killing to maximise your odds of winning.

True. Pursuing the objectives actually makes it more likely to lose, or to win but without any rewards.

[Mawai]

Mudhutwarrior, on 27 July 2016 - 04:36 AM, said:

Well that's just sad.

That depends on what the player did to "Be forced to leave the game" ... doesn't it?

PGI has never wiped out "scores" except when they went to open beta. Thay have had one stat archive. Other than that, the only folks who have been forced to leave or had scores wiped are those who were banned for whatever reason. I leave those decisions to PGI since they have far more info than I do.

[Besh]

Ghogiel, on 27 July 2016 - 05:59 AM, said:

Yeah the statistics suggest you have to play for killing to maximise your odds of winning.

Thats a pretty buzzwordsy way of saying nothing essentially . Care to substantiate that claim by maybe pointing to said statistics ?

Davers, on 27 July 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

True. Pursuing the objectives actually makes it more likely to lose, or to win but without any rewards.

Funny thing is, some Gamemodes actually pay much better than TDM if you win by completing the objective .

Edited by Besh, 27 July 2016 - 06:41 AM.

[Mawai]

Ghogiel, on 27 July 2016 - 05:53 AM, said:

High dmg is essential to carrying. It's probably the most effective way to increase your odds of winning. Sure some people might be doing it for selfish reasons, but the fact is they are likely increasing their W/L by gunning it hard and doing tons of dmg.

Tons of damage pads your match score and increases the odds of a PSR increase even if you lose (and gives larger PSR increases when you win).

Tons of damage MAY help you win. If your team mates do not target opponents and fire at weak spots ... which is incredibly common from what I have seen spectating then doing tons of damage strips armor off every part of opposing mechs so that no matter what your team mates aim at or how bad their aiming skills then the odds of them getting a kill along with your team winning both go up. (though if all you are doing is tons of distributed damage ... LRMs become a viable option)

On the other hand, pin point applied damage is the most effective way to actually kill or disable an opponent. The problem is that if you don't finish them off ... it is a bit of dice roll as to whether your team mates can get the job done if they aren't targeting the weak spots.

[Ghogiel]

Besh, on 27 July 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

Thats a pretty buzzwordsy way of saying nothing essentially . Care to substantiate that claim by maybe pointing to said statistics ?

No one is going to believe you if say the majority of your games in conquest and assault do not end on kills but on the objectives.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 27 July 2016 - 03:23 AM, said:

PGI implementing Solo-Q leaderboard certainly didn't help. Pugs are now even more passive than before.

Tell me about it.

Yesterday, in a Skirmish fight on Canyon, we found ourselves in a localized 12v5 advantage. Someone called for a push, so I went in and took down one of the enemy and with minimal damage to myself. Afterwards, when I looked behind me, no one else was there!!! All I saw were long-range laser and LRM fire. Argh!

After extricating myself from the pickle I got myself into, I asked what happened to the push. All I got was silence.

So I went "Banzai!" into the enemy, died, quit, and dropped into another fight.

What a bunch of ******* parasites much of the player base has turned into!

Edited by Mystere, 27 July 2016 - 06:58 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Mawai, on 27 July 2016 - 06:42 AM, said:

Tons of damage pads your match score and increases the odds of a PSR increase even if you lose (and gives larger PSR increases when you win).

Tons of damage MAY help you win. If your team mates do not target opponents and fire at weak spots ... which is incredibly common from what I have seen spectating then doing tons of damage strips armor off every part of opposing mechs so that no matter what your team mates aim at or how bad their aiming skills then the odds of them getting a kill along with your team winning both go up. (though if all you are doing is tons of distributed damage ... LRMs become a viable option)

On the other hand, pin point applied damage is the most effective way to actually kill or disable an opponent. The problem is that if you don't finish them off ... it is a bit of dice roll as to whether your team mates can get the job done if they aren't targeting the weak spots.

It's a straw man to imply I mean lurmer type bloated dmg numbers when I say doing tons of dmg is better than doing little dmg. Of course I mean effective dmg with the aim to actually get the solo kill