521 replies to this topic

[adamts01]

Drunken Skull, on 11 August 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

Do you really think the only problem this game has, is that a 20 tonne mech can't throw as much pain out as a 100 tonne mech?

Drunken Skull, on 11 August 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

As for your balance, 20 tonnes on one side of the scale and 100 tonnes on the other, hmm wonder what the scales will say? Reality is hard to grasp I understand, but numbers as clear as those don't lie.

Here's the thing. I really wish lights were fine being ****, that they cost less resources to field, that you could throw a couple of those disposable mechs at a prized assault. I wish we had that game, but we don't, sadly. I'm fine being the underdog, playing a support role, cleaning up the scraps, whatever, but we don't have those roles. PGI wen't the e-sports arena shooter rout, not what I want, but whatever. The problem is there's a single chassis weight (heavy) that's the best at just about every role there is. Most of us light pilots aren't arguing for a light to "throw as much pain out as a 100 tonne mech", as that's silly, we want an equally important role, even if a little less desirable for most, but we don't have anything. We're stuck with a chassis that comes in last place at almost everything, has nothing it does the best, and after this patch nothing it even does better than another weight. Despite all the other flaws which we're both aware of, this last light nerf is what made me finally leave the game. Your statements apply to Battltech, or a realistic battlefield, not this mess we have. If there are going to be four classes, they each need something they're best at, and PGI's best solution is having imaginary squares to run around and stand in, which mediums still excel at..... epic fail.

[Mcgral18]

Drunken Skull, on 11 August 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

Resorting to personal insults is surely the last resort of a desperate person. So I am a "very special unicorn" and also a "potato" now am I? Clearly a desperate ploy to derail the conversation, defamation is also evident.

Do you really think the only problem this game has, is that a 20 tonne mech can't throw as much pain out as a 100 tonne mech? PGI dealt with this(poorly) by balancing the teams FYI, there are an EVEN number of mechs of DIFFERENT weight classes placed on EACH side in a match(essentially each lance has a maximum drop weight, Charlie Lance being for Assaults/Heavies, Bravo Lance being for Heavies/Mediums, and Alpha Lance being for Mediums/Lights).

That would be great... If the map were the size of a Continent, or at the very least, a State. However the maps are the size of a swimming pool, and you now have Alpha Lance (light mechs) racing round the pool to the other side to get up the jacksies(backsides) of the opposing team's Charlie Lance (Assault Mechs). Let the trolling Light mech fun begin... Where not only are you speed tanking, for the extra kick of it your'e picking on the mechs with the slowest aim(torso twist and asimuth movements) in the game.

It's no personal attack, it's the truth


You've failed to make a single convincing argument, and have just trolled this thread to the top, repeatedly. That's fine, I need a good laugh every now and then.

Now, why don't you go ahead and play 10 matches in Light mechs...sorry, "Troll" 10 matches, in Light mechs, and we can see your stats on the leaderboards.

Show us just how OP these robots are.


This is a 12 VS 12 Shooty Stompy Robot game, with no semblance to BattleTech. Get over it
All robots need to compete in some form or another, and "scouting" is something any 100 tonner can do. Maps are multiple square Kilometers, and with 15 minute matches, that's plenty.

And, again, anyone who can shoot, IE, not a Potato, has few issues with Lights. If they outplay you, that's that. Outplayed. Not because he has an OMGWTFBBQ OP P2W robot...like the God Quirk Cheetah

I still miss that robot...and the multiple blanket nerfs which weren't in place.


There's nothing desperate about my posts, yours are just too hilarious

Drunken Skull, on 11 August 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

your'e also picking on the mechs with the slowest speed and aim(torso twist and asimuth movements) in the game.

And, again, unless you're in a Whale, no Light is agile enough to avoid guns unless they're within 2M.


Leg Humping LOLcusts are a thing for suicidal pilots, and can ruin you if alone, but that means he's nearly stationary for any friend.

[dario03]

Drunken Skull, on 11 August 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

Let the trolling Light mech fun begin... Where not only are you speed tanking, for the extra kick of it, your'e also picking on the mechs with the slowest speed and aim(torso twist and asimuth movements) in the game.

Wait so lights are trolling assaults because they use the assaults one weakness against them?
Then wouldn't that mean that every other mech is trolling when they shoot at lights since lights are the least armored mechs in the game???

[Drunken Skull]

dario03, on 11 August 2016 - 11:56 PM, said:

Wait so lights are trolling assaults because they use the assaults one weakness against them?
Then wouldn't that mean that every other mech is trolling when they shoot at lights since lights are the least armored mechs in the game???

Now you've brought up another problem which someone else also brought up, heavies and mediums in the same vicinity as enemy lights = light mech massacre, another by-product of shoving all weight classes in a swimming pool together. We may as well be playing Paper-Rock-Scissors(Paper = Lights, Rock = Assaults, Scissors = Heavies and Mediums).

The Mechwarrior/Battletech universe is a vast, exciting, and mysterious place that has so much to offer, but sadly, MWO has devolved to a PVP only, Team Death Match only, Mechs Only, 12x12 Arena only, FPS twitch shooter.

Where the playerbase is encouraged with the idea that they must act as sneakily and as underhandedly towards their opposition as possible in order to come out on top. To boot for all the touted "tactical thinking" that goes into a match it all just boils down to who managed to play Paper-Rock-Scissors the best in the swimming pool sized map. It truly is a crying f***ing shame.

Edited by Drunken Skull, 12 August 2016 - 12:35 AM.

[Kotzi]

GrimRiver, on 11 August 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

When the ACHeater first came out I made a post about how broken and borked the hitreg and hitboxes were on it and people said I was full of BS and that I need to "git gud"

But I posted video showing half enemy team trying to take down a lone ACH running around in the middle at 69%, overheats while getting blasted but still lives on to fight a bit more.


And yet people were still in denial about.

Then later Russ confirmed that the ACH hitboxes were indeed borked.

But now it goes down like any other light.

I still haven't got a "I'm sorry you were right" lol

Oh lord, thats some neat aiming. When the ACH was shut down it was surrounded by 4 mechs. The Mist Lynx shot with lrms and hit his teammate too, that teammate didnt shoot at the ACH at all, the Blackjack had to find the shutdown ACH before he could fire Medium laser for less than half a second at him and the Griffin displayed his superb aiming again. Nevertheless this OP Cheetah only killed one mech by scratching its already cored back as it seems. It didnt kill anything else, it didnt win the game with ease. Where is the evidence for OPness.

[RestosIII]

Kotzi, on 12 August 2016 - 12:10 AM, said:

Oh lord, thats some neat aiming. When the ACH was shut down it was surrounded by 4 mechs. The Mist Lynx shot with lrms and hit his teammate too, that teammate didnt shoot at the ACH at all, the Blackjack had to find the shutdown ACH before he could fire Medium laser for less than half a second at him and the Griffin displayed his superb aiming again. Nevertheless this OP Cheetah only killed one mech by scratching its already cored back as it seems. It didnt kill anything else, it didnt win the game with ease. Where is the evidence for OPness.

'snickering'. OPness. Always gets me.

[adamts01]

Drunken Skull, on 12 August 2016 - 12:05 AM, said:

We may as well be playing Paper-Rock-Scissors(Paper = Lights, Rock = Assaults, Scissors = Heavies and Mediums).

The Mechwarrior/Battletech universe is a vast, exciting, and mysterious place that has so much to offer, but sadly, MWO has devolved to a PVP only, Team Death Match only, Mechs Only, 12x12 Arena only, FPS twitch shooter.

I agree the game is sad, but it's not, nor ever has been paper rock scissors. Any decent assault with a decent loadout has always been able to solo lights. Even if an assault is dumb enough to be solo (bad pilot) he can reverse, counter steer, and take a single well aimed shot to gimp or outright kill the light. Not since lag shied spiders of years past has this been otherwise. In lower tiers, where good aim is a rarity, the smaller (not much so anymore) faster targets seemed a little over powered, but step in to a true tier 1 match and lights get absolutely bent over by everything on the battlefield.

[Y E O N N E]

Drunken Skull, on 11 August 2016 - 09:16 PM, said:

Light mechs aren't supposed to strike fear into the hearts of anything larger than they are, theyr'e "Light", they ARE called that for a reason. They are small, don't weigh very much, hence don't carry very much armor and don't have space for very much weaponry.

It really sounds like you would like this to be "Call of Duty, Mechs" Where a Light mech is equal to an Assault mech, just as a sniper is equal to an engineer or medic in a Battlefield game. This isn't suppose to be how Battletech or Mechwarrior is, and I hope it's clear as to why; 1 weighs 20 tons 1 weighs 100 tones, do the math... one's the equivalent of a jeep or quad bike and the other is the equivalent of an M1 or T90 tank. So you would like to have the Jeep be as tanky as the M1 or T90?

1. I don't think you have ever played Call of Duty.

2. I don't think you have played Battlefield, either. Snipers are the most useless players in the game, it's the Engineers and Medics that win the matches pretty much exclusively.

3. If Lights can't be frightening, neither can assaults. If you ignore the class for a second, you'll see how stupid it is that players of one type of thing are allowed to, in your own words, troll the sh*t out of other players and pwn the whole team. Nobody will want to play anything else, because that means just playing cannon-fodder for the people playing that other thing. This would be horrible for the game.

4. "This isn't suppose to be how Battletech or Mechwarrior is." Brilliant argument, allow me to offer a rebuttle: BattleTech can go f*ck itself with a cactus. The technical fluff is miserable and should be ignored.

5. Lights are under-gunned and under-armored in this game. Why do you think there are so many T1-3 players in here defending them? We can kill them, easily, and we don't need Streak-cheese to do it (though that is always an option if you have trouble). And on attack, sure, they might be able to fire 30-point alphas...but they are hot when they do it so their total DPS is lower. Or, they have to get extremely close. Because of this, getting 900+ damage in a Light is so much more work than doing it in a Heavy or Assault.

I mean, seriously, do you have any idea how tricky it is to play a Locust 3S or 1M? Mist Lynx? That's pure unbridled skill. If you can't deal with that, you have a severe case of the git gud.

[Drunken Skull]

We can argue that Light mechs are Over Powered, or that they are Underpowered, till we are blue in the face, fact is we are both right, Light mechs ARE OP when pitted against assaults. However pitting Lights against mediums or heavies, and the Lights get their asses handed to them.

Yes I do understand that in order to "Git Gud" at piloting a Light mech you had to be EXTREMELY gud, that doesn't make what your'e doing to other players right, and you're actually hurting the game as a whole, and helping me prove my point at the same time by drawing attention to it.

If youre so Funkin Waggnels good at piloting, why do you need to use a speed tank and pick on things slower than you? Perhaps your'e not as "Gud" as you think you are and can't get by without these crutches?

Whether the Light mech class gets buffed or nerfed at this stage doesn't matter, It won't make the slightest bit of difference either way, it's just a red herring distracting everyone from the real Pink Elephant in the corner of the room that nobody's willing to acknowledge.

You think the games fine the way it is then so be it, good for you, make the crutches for your light mechs as big as you like, it only increases the LOL factor.

Edited by Drunken Skull, 12 August 2016 - 06:26 AM.

[Deathlike]

Drunken Skull, on 12 August 2016 - 06:19 AM, said:

We can argue that Light mechs are Over Powered, or that they are Underpowered, till we are blue in the face, fact is we are both right, Light mechs ARE OP when pitted against assaults. However pitting Lights against mediums or heavies, and the Lights get their asses handed to them.

No. The side that is right is the comp side on this matter.

Bad Assault pilots are bad. Bad Light pilots are bad. Assaults > Lights

Quote

Yes I do understand that in order to "Git Gud" at piloting a Light mech you had to be EXTREMELY gud, that doesn't make what your'e doing to other players right.

If you have no battlefield awareness, it's not the Light's fault you die from back shots.

Quote

Whether the Light mech class gets buffed or nerfed at this stage doesn't matter, It won't make the slightest bit of difference either way, it's just a red herring distracting everyone from the real Pink Elephant in the corner of the room that nobody want's to acknowledge.

It does matter. All Mech lives matter.

Quote

You think the games fine the way it is then so be it, good for you.

If you don't understand the game... let alone play it well, then your world view is skewed to your ignorance. Ignorance may be bliss, but facts are still facts.

[Drunken Skull]

Well in that case, In the words of Yeonne Greene; Competitive play can go "f*** itself with a cactus." After all whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

I am saying that the problem lies with game modes and suitably sized maps and objectives, and the lack of the Light mechs purpose, which is soft target domination, heres a hint; it's what all those MG's and Flamers your light mechs come equipped with are for.

THAT is the Pink Elephant in the room, keep ignoring it, by all means pretend that everythings ok and the only thing MWO needs is a Light mech buff...

SMH

You might be content being the big scary fish in the kiddy pool, but many of us wanted more from MWO than a massively borked Arena shooter in a kiddy paddle pool...

It's the same with ghost heat 2.0, do whatever you like, no amount of band-aids and heat nerfs is going to hide the fact that its a big fat pink elephant, a dull 12x12 Arena shooter that has been sterilized for the sake of "competitive play". Doesn't matter which way you turn it, a triangular mech(like all the hardpoint-starved low-alpha mechs) is not going to fit in the square hole cut in the cardboard prop that masquerades before us pretending it represents Mechwarrior.

Remember the motto "It's not just a Job, it's an Adventure"? well thats what we need in this game, some frikkin adventure, we've been playing your ideal "competitive play" Arena shooter since 2011, It's stale, it's 6 years old now, and it's boring.

it's time for PGI to pony up and give us the other 9/10ths of a game they promised us, like maybe some meaningful game content other than PVP and a leaderboard.

Edited by Drunken Skull, 12 August 2016 - 07:02 AM.

[oldradagast]

The Arctic Cheetah is a good light mech. Most other light mechs are slightly into trash-tier after the (admittedly needed) resizing. Now that mechs are on about equal footing from a volume per ton perspective, some effort should be put into helping out the horribly nerfed light mechs that ballooned in size and got nothing out of it.

It's more a case of taking the Arctic Cheetah because it's playable these days... while staying at the big 35 tonners and wondering what their purpose is in the game anymore.

[Deathlike]

Drunken Skull, on 12 August 2016 - 06:38 AM, said:

Well that case, In the words of Yeonne Greene; Competitive play can go "f** itself with a cactus." After all whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

If you're not good at it though, how do you expect to be taken seriously in any discussion? I've read enough LRMs are OP threads to facepalm a million times over, and it's not surprise people openly mock others (in those threads) about it. There's just too much complaining about things that they don't understand.. but more importantly are not willing to listen about.

Quote

I am saying that the problem lies with game modes and suitably sized maps and objectives, and the lack of the Light mechs purpose, which is soft target domination, heres a hint; it's what all those MG's and Flamers your light mechs come equipped with are for.

Gamemodes and role warfare are a problem, but that doesn't fix the core issue that the Spider-5V (and other light mechs) suffer from being irrelevant except for the top tier Lights... and even then, they aren't that good.

Again, noone takes MGs seriously... because of our balance overlord and other Tier 5 representatives that cling onto MGs needing to suck and that they are supposed to be useful in limited ways (for things that don't even exist in the game).

Quote

THAT is the Pink Elephant in the room, keep ignoring it, by all means pretend that everythings ok and the only thing MWO needs is a Light mech buff...

SMH

There's more that's needed in MWO. Light mechs getting a buff is still one of them (mostly due to the crappy upscaling efforts on many Lights).

Quote

You might be content being the big scary fish in the kiddy pool, but many of us wanted more from MWO than this...

Sure, but ignoring reality doesn't help your argument.

Edited by Deathlike, 12 August 2016 - 06:47 AM.

[Drunken Skull]

Deathlike, on 12 August 2016 - 06:46 AM, said:

If you're not good at it though, how do you expect to be taken seriously in any discussion? I've read enough LRMs are OP threads to facepalm a million times over, and it's not surprise people openly mock others (in those threads) about it. There's just too much complaining about things that they don't understand.. but more importantly are not willing to listen about.



Gamemodes and role warfare are a problem, but that doesn't fix the core issue that the Spider-5V (and other light mechs) suffer from being irrelevant except for the top tier Lights... and even then, they aren't that good.

Again, noone takes MGs seriously... because of our balance overlord and other Tier 5 representatives that cling onto MGs needing to suck and that they are supposed to be useful in limited ways (for things that don't even exist in the game).




There's more that's needed in MWO. Light mechs getting a buff is still one of them (mostly due to the crappy upscaling efforts on many Lights).




Sure, but ignoring reality doesn't help your argument.

Well I have to give you credit, you "almost" acknowledged the Pink Elephant in the room. Likewize though, ignoring the reality, and more importantly; the "big picture", isn't doing you any favors either.

Sure you will get your light mech buff, then the Assaults will start complaining because you are Pwning them, so then you will either be nerfed again or Assaults will be buffed, rinse and repeat, all the while nothing is in-fact changing or getting any better, we still have the same old stale TDM game mode on Arena kiddy swimming pool maps.

The kicker is after all of that, all of the nerfing and buffing and quirking and juggling that's eaten up all that dev time and funding, the game's no better off than when you started and your'e still left with balance issues that'd give a Chinese acrobat an aneurysm(and quite possibly a Hernia), because the REALITY of the situation is that the classes are not equal in tonnage, and not every mech is a square(Alpha-Brawler), and no matter which way up you tip things, there's no way Triangle mechs are going to fit in your 12x12 Arena square holes.

Edited by Drunken Skull, 12 August 2016 - 08:16 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Guys...I don't think he's trolling



PUG LIFE

[B0oN]

ACH OP again ?
LOK !

Get gud .

The mech´s fine, your aim and HSR ain´t .

Case closed, whining session dismissed because useless .
Now get outta here, and learn to keep aiming steady .

[Wintersdark]

Drunken Skull, on 11 August 2016 - 09:16 PM, said:

Light mechs aren't supposed to strike fear into the hearts of anything larger than they are, theyr'e "Light", they ARE called that for a reason. They are small, don't weigh very much, hence don't carry very much armor and don't have space for very much weaponry.

It really sounds like you would like this to be "Call of Duty, Mechs" Where a Light mech is equal to an Assault mech, just as a sniper is equal to an engineer or medic in a Battlefield game. This isn't suppose to be how Battletech or Mechwarrior is, and I hope it's clear as to why; 1 weighs 20 tons 1 weighs 100 tones, do the math... one's the equivalent of a jeep or quad bike and the other is the equivalent of an M1 or T90 tank. So you would like to have the Jeep be as tanky as the M1 or T90?

I said it earlier, and I'll say it again.

You keep saying "supposed to be" here, but you clearly don't know what that means.

From day one, before a line of code was written in MWO, lights being equally combat capable has been "how it's supposed to be" because that is the game design. That was ALWAYS the intent. Of course, you can't have lights able to just stand and face tank assaults, because that'd be silly. So, lights being equally combat capable requires them utilizing speed, as THAT is their advantage.

There are no other "roles" in MWO. MWO is purely a combat game. People may want something else, but that's just not what we have.

No amount of how much you think things are "supposed" to be different based on your imagination or other games made with different designs matters. Not at all. It's just random BS. You might not like it, but nobody cares what you like. Because this design exists for a very important reason, which has already been well covered in this thread. You inability to grasp this simple concept is your problem, not ours.

God knows, PGI flubbed on enough of their early design points, but this one remains, and it's important. MWO does not feature Light>Medium>Heavy>Assault as a progression curve (which is what you're asking for, even if you're too slow to grasp it), because that leads to a game where 99% of players are in assaults, and that's just dumb.



So, no, Lights are NOT "supposed to be" cannon fodder for everyone else. They were never supposed to be that. They were supposed to be equally capable mechs from the very start, and that's never changed.


TLDR: You're wrong, your posts are bad, and you should feel bad.

Mcgral18, on 12 August 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

Guys...I don't think he's trolling

I wish he was, this would be less sad that way.

Edited by Wintersdark, 12 August 2016 - 08:17 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

[Drunken Skull]

Wintersdark, on 12 August 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

STUFF

Since you are so wise and know so much better than me, how do you propose PGI make Hardpoint Starved mechs compete in this shambles of a TDM Arena shooter, where the winning meta is High-Alpha peek-a-boo?

How do you plan to placate Assault Pilots when they Rage because they've had enough of your light mech shenanigans?

You haven't got the slightest clue do you? You probably don't even think there IS a problem. At least I've TRIED to point out the real issues at heart here, and even given suggestions on possible remedies. All you've done is try to discredit me, silence me, and shoot me down, all the while crying "but PGI told me I'd have a place in the world!". Ever heard of being constructive with your criticism?

Well there IS a problem, a big frikkin problem, a 6 year old stale game that has barely made good on anything it set out to do, and is about to fall to the wayside as soon as TNBT comes along kind of problem. I won't be hanging around for the collapse, Ill be jumping ship with everyone else when Hairbrained Schemes gets their BTECH off the ground, cause seriously, there is more to the Battletech universe than this.

Don't feel sad for me because none of this will be skin off my nose. It will be sad for you in a few months time from now, because it sounds like you LIKE this game perfectly as it is now, a great many of us don't, and very very soon, we wont have to put up with this crap anymore.

Edited by Drunken Skull, 12 August 2016 - 08:39 AM.

[Deathlike]

Drunken Skull, on 12 August 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

Since you are so wize and know so much better than me, how do you propose PGI make Hardpoint Starved mechs compete in this shambles of a TDM Arena shooter, where the winning meta is High-Alpha peek-a-boo?

That says a lot about how much you don't know what the meta is.