819 replies to this topic

[Ovion]

Dee Eight is really just a gibbering fanboy at this point.

Not been here 8 months, claims to have some 6-8,000 matches last I checked, declares to know everything, regardless of what's happened before, when we know what's going on and that they can change things, have changed things before.

It's a pure sales pitch, not a proper rewards program.

[SourKraut]

Well Dee Eight is right about one thing, PGI is under no obligation to provide an appreciation program (but they should be consistent in its implementation)...just like Dee Eight is under no obligation to police these forums and defend PGI (right or wrong) under any circumstance...but both of them do so anyhow, lol!

[MovinTarget]

They really didn't change anything, except open up another option for mechs that weren't obtainable before today. Perhaps they did at one point clearly state that everything was locked in place, set in stone, and immutable, but if they did they still have the right to change the rules, because they wrote these rules.

Yes, they have to live with the potential that many of you will ragequit, stop spending, etc etc etc, but something must be working for them because they haven't gone bankrupt yet and they (mostly) don't cave to player demands for free swag.

[YUyahoo]

MovinTarget, on 29 September 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

They really didn't change anything, except open up another option for mechs that weren't obtainable before today. Perhaps they did at one point clearly state that everything was locked in place, set in stone, and immutable, but if they did they still have the right to change the rules, because they wrote these rules.

Yes, they have to live with the potential that many of you will ragequit, stop spending, etc etc etc, but something must be working for them because they haven't gone bankrupt yet and they (mostly) don't cave to player demands for free swag.

For most of us, or at least for me anyhow, that's not what this is about, its not about "give me more stuff because I spent more money" (<--that is "entitlement" which has nothing to do with this), I'm not asking for something extra or beyond what the program encompasses nor am I asking for something "just for me"....what I asking for is that all similar purchases be appreciated similarly for the benefit of everyone and up until this point PGI stance has been that they formulated this program without considering mech pack hero and reinforcement purchases as a way to qualify for "top tier" rewards but have heard our feedback "loud and clear" and will "consider" changing the program for next year (maybe) but this years program is locked and cannot be changed...yet they just "changed" it an our ago to include something that wasn't part of the program when it was first announced. Yes I am fully aware that this is PGI's program and they can build it any way they want...but if the true objective of their Appreciation Program is to recognize and appreciate us, the community then why can it be amended after its announcement to include one thing but not the other? (this is a question that only PGI's answer counts...it doesn't matter what any of us, including Dee Eight, post in response)

[MovinTarget]

YUyahoo, on 29 September 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

For most of us, or at least for me anyhow, that's not what this is about, its not about "give me more stuff because I spent more money" (<--that is "entitlement" which has nothing to do with this), I'm not asking for something extra or beyond what the program encompasses nor am I asking for something "just for me"....what I asking for is that all similar purchases be appreciated similarly for the benefit of everyone and up until this point PGI stance has been that they formulated this program without considering mech pack hero and reinforcement purchases as a way to qualify for "top tier" rewards but have heard our feedback "loud and clear" and will "consider" changing the program for next year (maybe) but this years program is locked and cannot be changed...yet they just "changed" it an our ago to include something that wasn't part of the program when it was first announced. Yes I am fully aware that this is PGI's program and they can build it any way they want...but if the true objective of their Appreciation Program is to recognize and appreciate us, the community then why can it be amended after its announcement to include one thing but not the other? (this is a question that only PGI's answer counts...it doesn't matter what any of us, including Dee Eight, post in response)

I get that, I do. However, don't mistake my stance as white knighting here, I often state that while PGI has no legal, moral, or <insert 3rd adjective here that I can't think of> responsibility to adjust their loyalty rewards practices and at the same time I state they will have to deal with the consequences of their decisions.

Bottom line is that you and other players/customers are asking that your purchases be regarded similarly to those that have qualified for rewards. Clearly from PGI's perspective, they are not equal, for whatever reason (again, they don't tell us so we are left with conjecture). Until PGI either yields or offers clearer guidelines that one would hope leads to warm fuzzies come next August... this is what we got.

[YUyahoo]

MovinTarget, on 29 September 2016 - 06:19 PM, said:

I get that, I do. However, don't mistake my stance as white knighting here, I often state that while PGI has no legal, moral, or <insert 3rd adjective here that I can't think of> responsibility to adjust their loyalty rewards practices and at the same time I state they will have to deal with the consequences of their decisions.

Bottom line is that you and other players/customers are asking that your purchases be regarded similarly to those that have qualified for rewards. Clearly from PGI's perspective, they are not equal, for whatever reason (again, they don't tell us so we are left with conjecture). Until PGI either yields or offers clearer guidelines that one would hope leads to warm fuzzies come next August... this is what we got.

I understand this point fully, I really do and I don't think you are "white knighting" as some other frequent forum posters do. Ultimately yes PGI makes the rules but they still can be wrong and it seems they can make adjustments even when they claim not to be able to...but it seems only when/how they feel like it. As others have mentioned this feels less and less like an appreciation program and more and more like marketing ploy to encourage additional sales. And before someone says it, no I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

[MovinTarget]

YUyahoo, on 29 September 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

I understand this point fully, I really do and I don't think you are "white knighting" as some other frequent forum posters do. Ultimately yes PGI makes the rules but they still can be wrong and it seems they can make adjustments even when they claim not to be able to...but it seems only when/how they feel like it. As others have mentioned this feels less and less like an appreciation program and more and more like marketing ploy to encourage additional sales. And before someone says it, no I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

You are probably not wrong with how you feel. They are completely dependent upon these sales to show growth/stability (since there is no subscription base to depend on. I don't know about Canadian companies but in the US, for many, the end of September is the end of their earnings/expenses for the tax year (I should know, my boss grumbles enough about it enough). They may be trying to drum up some last minute sales so that they can show to those invested/investing in the company that they are making money or that things are looking up.

Again, conjecture.

[YUyahoo]

MovinTarget, on 29 September 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

You are probably not wrong with how you feel. They are completely dependent upon these sales to show growth/stability (since there is no subscription base to depend on. I don't know about Canadian companies but in the US, for many, the end of September is the end of their earnings/expenses for the tax year (I should know, my boss grumbles enough about it enough). They may be trying to drum up some last minute sales so that they can show to those invested/investing in the company that they are making money or that things are looking up.

Again, conjecture.

It is different in Canada...year end is in the spring for our government (march for crown corporations) but for independent business/corporations the year end depends on when the business in question signed their articles of incorporation (or business charter). For HST (Canada's VAT) for business, unless they have opted otherwise HST collected from sales of product/services is due Dec 31 each year (some business elect to make monthly, quarterly or biannually submissions instead)...at least that has been my experience in Canada.

[Dee Eight]

MovinTarget, on 29 September 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

I don't know about Canadian companies but in the US, for many, the end of September is the end of their earnings/expenses for the tax year (I should know, my boss grumbles enough about it enough). They may be trying to drum up some last minute sales so that they can show to those invested/investing in the company that they are making money or that things are looking up.

Again, conjecture.

Canadian businesses count their years of operation from the initial date of incorporation, founding, etc. My dad's company was incorporated June 30th, so when I wrote the accounting & invoicing system for it, the business year was July 1 to June 30.

Tax years here however, go by the calendar year. While individuals have to file their income tax returns before April 30th of the new year, most businesses have to submit money depending on the type of business they conduct. Our Federal sales tax (the GST) get remitted monthly for example. Provinces which adopted the harmonized sales tax (merging their provincial tax with the federal one) also collect it monthly. Quebec still has a seperate PST and I do not know the reporting period there but when Ontario had a seperate PST, you could pick your reporting period when you got your business license and tax registration number (I chose the six month option).

[RAM]

Jay Leon Hart, on 29 September 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

Thanks, I needed to smile after today

No problem, Dee - you are after all good for more than the odd chuckle yourself


RAM
ELH

[RAM]

Alexander Garden, on 29 September 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

They do contribute toward eligibility for the 2016 Program.
Acquiring any one of these Hero 'Mechs prior to the deadline would qualify you for the base Clan Reward.
Acquiring any six would qualify you for the Top-Tier Clan Reward.

Will purchases after October count for next year's program?


RAM
ELH

[Willothius]

Ovion, on 29 September 2016 - 04:43 PM, said:

...when we know what's going on and that they can change things...

YUyahoo, on 29 September 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

...will "consider" changing the program for next year (maybe) but this years program is locked and cannot be changed...yet they just "changed" it an our ago to include something that wasn't part of the program when it was first announced.

MovinTarget, on 29 September 2016 - 06:19 PM, said:

...I often state that while PGI has no legal, moral, or <insert 3rd adjective here that I can't think of> responsibility to adjust their loyalty rewards practices...

YUyahoo, on 29 September 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

...and it seems they can make adjustments even when they claim not to be able to...but it seems only when/how they feel like it.

Hasn't anyone considered that, while the text description might not have reflected it, the actual eligibility for Clan Heroes was already present in the background all along, meaning the program actually didn't change??

To me, that would make perfect sense: They knew those Clan Heroes were coming, so the Customer Appreciation was already designed/coded to include those, but to avoid *spoilers* they didn't post them in the original description of the program.
(I guess they also did this with the Bushwhacka; then nobody complained that the program had "changed", as this inclusion made sense)
And now they've just updated the description of the thing to include the newly anounced stuff.
That's how I would do it.

~Willothius: "Brain used LOGIC! It's super effctive!" WILL.

[Edited for sneering referral to DV's mini-signatures]

Edited by Willothius, 30 September 2016 - 04:40 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Willothius, on 30 September 2016 - 04:37 AM, said:

Hasn't anyone considered that, while the text description might not have reflected it, the actual eligibility for Clan Heroes was already present in the background all along, meaning the program actually didn't change??

To me, that would make perfect sense: They knew those Clan Heroes were coming, so the Customer Appreciation was already designed/coded to include those, but to avoid *spoilers* they didn't post them in the original description of the program.
(I guess they also did this with the Bushwhacka; then nobody complained that the program had "changed", as this inclusion made sense)
And now they've just updated the description of the thing to include the newly anounced stuff.
That's how I would do it.

So in a nutshell, you think PGI possibly planned ahead?

[MovinTarget]

RAM, on 30 September 2016 - 01:42 AM, said:

Will purchases after October count for next year's program?


RAM
ELH

Technically yes, but it is hard to say *how* they will count seeing as with these Clan Heroes they introduce yet another wrinkle in their sales approach, leaving the door open for the criteria for qualification to be slightly more ambiguous up until the moment they announce it.

I maintain that the ideal thing for them to do now is to come out in Nov/Dec 2016 with an announcement of what would qualify for the 2017 loyalty rewards... even if they don't announce what the rewards themselves are. State clearly what one needs to do during a specific period of time (oct 2016 - oct 2017) and offer a page we can check over that span to verify we are qualifying for stuff.

They should leave caveats in the announcement such that if they devise a new pricing plan or offering during the year that isn't a "Wave" or "Collector's Pack" they are free to include them into the program as they desire.

Will there be blowback?
of course, these are MWO players we are talking about.

Will the salt be more tolerable than announcing the conditions 10 months into the qualification period and 2 months before the deadline?
I am thinkin' yes.

Also, it allows people to *plan* their purchases over the course of the year, knowing they're getting something (whatever it is) at the end of the year. This way people would *know* if they want to qualify for loyalty rewards "buy this, not that".

It's admittedly more rigid than what they are doing, but a heck of a lot more transparent.

Edited by MovinTarget, 30 September 2016 - 05:54 AM.

[RAM]

MovinTarget, on 30 September 2016 - 05:53 AM, said:

Technically yes

Technically they SHOULD, but after they boned the Performance Steam Packs who rightfully knows these days...


RAM
ELH

[Willothius]

MovinTarget, on 30 September 2016 - 05:43 AM, said:

So in a nutshell, you think PGI possibly planned ahead?

Well... if you phrase it like that it just sounds silly.

[Dee Eight]

Oh they definitely planned ahead to include things announced later, but didn't tell us would be included at the time because it'd spoil their timing plans for the new mechs.

[Taufey]

Alexander Garden, on 29 September 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

They do contribute toward eligibility for the 2016 Program.
Acquiring any one of these Hero 'Mechs prior to the deadline would qualify you for the base Clan Reward.
Acquiring any six would qualify you for the Top-Tier Clan Reward.

Will buying any three and a Collector's pack qualify?

[MovinTarget]

Taufey, on 01 October 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

Will buying any three and a Collector's pack qualify?

Next MWO weekend event: "Lets Make a Deal"

[C E Dwyer]

Taufey, on 01 October 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

Will buying any three and a Collector's pack qualify?

Seems reasonable, though I suspect PGI will haggle you up to "Only if one of the three is an assault hero, and the other two are not lights"

Seriously though it won't hurt to ask billing support, chances are, that it's something they haven't considered, but also if they say it's not going to qualify, don't make a salty thread about it

Edited by Cathy, 02 October 2016 - 09:14 AM.