102 replies to this topic

[Calvyr]

I have to believe that somebody, at some point, actually played a match, or at least walked a mech around the different maps with this new map. That's the puzzling part. It's pretty obvious that it's not legible, so why was it pushed out?

I'm really trying to be more positive and optimistic lately, but it's getting more and more difficult to do that when I see things like this.

[SQW]

Calvyr, on 24 August 2016 - 06:16 AM, said:

I have to believe that somebody, at some point, actually played a match, or at least walked a mech around the different maps with this new map. That's the puzzling part. It's pretty obvious that it's not legible, so why was it pushed out?

I'm really trying to be more positive and optimistic lately, but it's getting more and more difficult to do that when I see things like this.

In my OP, I mentioned working with a guy that changed the first letter of a signage when the instruction was "change the color to X". In his mind, he did the job. Not once did it occur to him that an instruction to change just the first letter would be odd and the end result looked silly. Nope, he did his job and did not spare a second though on the result.

People like that exists and I imagine someone like that also exists in PGI. Also, it's remarkably difficult to fire these people because getting a replacement would be extra hassle nobody wants and doing something incompetently is different to making an actual mistake...after all, the only people suffering are the players/customers. So the idiot stays on year after year....

[cazidin]

Did PGI break the map AGAIN?

[SQW]

cazidin, on 24 August 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

Did PGI break the map AGAIN?

Yes. The grid number is even harder to see than before on most maps let along with snow ones. It's infuriating.

[bukidog]

SQW, on 24 August 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

In my OP, I mentioned working with a guy that changed the first letter of a signage when the instruction was "change the color to X". In his mind, he did the job. Not once did it occur to him that an instruction to change just the first letter would be odd and the end result looked silly. Nope, he did his job and did not spare a second though on the result.

People like that exists and I imagine someone like that also exists in PGI. Also, it's remarkably difficult to fire these people because getting a replacement would be extra hassle nobody wants and doing something incompetently is different to making an actual mistake...after all, the only people suffering are the players/customers. So the idiot stays on year after year....

^^ even more when that person is Russ?

FIX THE ******* MAP
AND THEN LEAVE IT ALONE

Edited by bukidog, 24 August 2016 - 06:54 AM.

[ImperialKnight]

Telemachus Rheade, on 23 August 2016 - 08:24 PM, said:

PGI, fixing and breaking things that don't need fixing since 2013.

Why did the minimap need an update in the first place? Who asked for it?

apparently Russ has been watching too much World of Tanks on Twitch

[SQW]

Had my first Frozen City game. It wasn't pretty.

[OnkleFester]

It would be nice, if they would put screenshots of changes like these forward, so everyone can give feedback before they waste time implementing complete utter crap.

Horrible minimap.

The minimap should be a hex grid map, with LEVEL1, LEVEL2 (ect) to indicate elevation, LIGHT, HEAVY, for woods, ROUGH, or RUBBLE for terrain, with a bare minimal artwork. It should literally look like the table top maps from the starter set.

[jonfett]

I feel like PGI is running a shill game on us.

"Look over here at the shiny new PTS servers with their new power draw updates and we really, really, really promise, hope to die, pinky swear, we will never roll any updates into PROD without your feedback first". <PGI>while everyone is focused on power draw, sneak new updates into PROD to screw with players ability to actually play game without having to buy things with real money</PGI>

[Hunka Junk]

Theory 1: There is a saboteur who works for Hawken or some such that has infiltrated PGI. This individual saw the chaos caused by the last map change, and made sure that this patch also featured a map change.

Theory 2: There is a troll working for PGI who wants to get fired but has chosen to intentionally screw things up until someone notices that he is screwing things up instead of developing the game. The map change was for the lulz.

Seriously though, how can you go from the uproar over the last map change to shrinking the minimap by 50% 2 months later?

It's like cutting a tree down because it's blocking the view from a window and then screwing the tree back into the stump 2 months later.

It truly is comic.

And sad.

And embarrassing.

But I'm glad they're listening.

[bukidog]

Hunka Junk, on 24 August 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

But I'm glad they're listening.

If only they were.
just in case, also post in the patch response forum http://mwomercs.com/...-feedback-1481/

[sneakolai]

Dear PGI Map Designers:

There is a concept you may or may not have learned, but which was certainly drummed in my head when I studied graphic design: contrast. I specifically refer to contrast in regard to hue, value, and intensity. Contrast is necessary for legibility or visibility. In layman's terms, if both the foreground and background are the same, it's impossible to see anything. This works if camouflage is the intended effect, but when designing something that's MEANT to be visible, it's of utmost importance to amp up the contrast.

Another basic lesson I learned as a freshman had to do with typography. Similar to the whole contrast in color/value/intensity, a character (text) needs a certain weight and "color" (thickness, really) to be visible. If the letters are too thin, they can fade into the background. This is especially true if on some kind of textured background. The letters are, effectively, camouflaged.

So why were thin, small letters placed as markers on the minimap grid squares? They are all but invisible on most maps. They become part of the terrain, matching the visuals of rivulets, ravines, and other paths that were so lovingly given so much detail.

In related ridiculousness, the tiny, hard-to-see lettering does not change to anything better when pressing 'B' to use the large map. This map takes up something like 20x the screen real estate of the minimap, but the lettering is the same size (or only fractionally larger). Shouldn't the markers, too, be significantly larger and thicker?

You also fail to take into consideration the needs of those individuals who may be color blind. I may need to squint to read the coordinates (and I already wear glasses, so thank you for that), but the colorblind may not be able to see them at all. The "color blind friendly reticule" does nothing to compensate or mitigate.

The above observations are true on the following maps:

Forest Colony
Frozen City
Caustic Valley
River City
Emerald Taiga
Vitric Forge
Alpine Peaks
Tourmaline Desert
Canyon Network
Crimson Strait
HPG Manifold
The Mining Collective
Viridian Bog
Boreal Vault
Sulfurous Rift
Hellebore Springs
Polar Highlands

This constitutes a full 85% of the playable maps.

The grid coordinate text is tolerable on: Grim Portico, Grim Plexus.

It's okay on: Terra Therma.

Those maps are tolerable/okay because of – you guessed it – contrast. White text can be read on a purple or charcoal grey/black background. Even then the lettering needs to be thicker or bolder, because it’s still starting to fade, but it’s better on these maps because there is an automatic contrast between white and black (or purple).

PGI, what were you thinking? Are you deliberately trying to drive away the player base? It's a VIDEO game, meaning VISUALS are important.

Did anyone at PGI test these? Or, to backtrack even further, why were they implemented at all? Was there a great clamoring for something like high def minimaps? Was there an outcry of "I need to see every rock, every speck of dust, every tree -- twice!" or something? Was it flawed somehow? And did you learn nothing from suddenly changing the minimap last time? Have you ever heard the phrase, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it?" Or, for you artists, "Less is more?"

There is a reason I -- and plenty of people -- only put a minimal amount of money into this game. As a gamer, I am annoyed. As a graphic designer, I am appalled. Graphic designers who implemented this, you should be ashamed.

Please get your act together and make it palatable to play Mechwarrior again, PGI.

[RestosIII]

sneakolai, on 24 August 2016 - 10:21 AM, said:

Dear PGI Map Designers:

There is a concept you may or may not have learned, but which was certainly drummed in my head when I studied graphic design: contrast. I specifically refer to contrast in regard to hue, value, and intensity. Contrast is necessary for legibility or visibility. In layman's terms, if both the foreground and background are the same, it's impossible to see anything. This works if camouflage is the intended effect, but when designing something that's MEANT to be visible, it's of utmost importance to amp up the contrast.

Another basic lesson I learned as a freshman had to do with typography. Similar to the whole contrast in color/value/intensity, a character (text) needs a certain weight and "color" (thickness, really) to be visible. If the letters are too thin, they can fade into the background. This is especially true if on some kind of textured background. The letters are, effectively, camouflaged.

So why were thin, small letters placed as markers on the minimap grid squares? They are all but invisible on most maps. They become part of the terrain, matching the visuals of rivulets, ravines, and other paths that were so lovingly given so much detail.

In related ridiculousness, the tiny, hard-to-see lettering does not change to anything better when pressing 'B' to use the large map. This map takes up something like 20x the screen real estate of the minimap, but the lettering is the same size (or only fractionally larger). Shouldn't the markers, too, be significantly larger and thicker?

You also fail to take into consideration the needs of those individuals who may be color blind. I may need to squint to read the coordinates (and I already wear glasses, so thank you for that), but the colorblind may not be able to see them at all. The "color blind friendly reticule" does nothing to compensate or mitigate.

The above observations are true on the following maps:

Forest Colony
Frozen City
Caustic Valley
River City
Emerald Taiga
Vitric Forge
Alpine Peaks
Tourmaline Desert
Canyon Network
Crimson Strait
HPG Manifold
The Mining Collective
Viridian Bog
Boreal Vault
Sulfurous Rift
Hellebore Springs
Polar Highlands

This constitutes a full 85% of the playable maps.

The grid coordinate text is tolerable on: Grim Portico, Grim Plexus.

It's okay on: Terra Therma.

Those maps are tolerable/okay because of – you guessed it – contrast. White text can be read on a purple or charcoal grey/black background. Even then the lettering needs to be thicker or bolder, because it’s still starting to fade, but it’s better on these maps because there is an automatic contrast between white and black (or purple).

PGI, what were you thinking? Are you deliberately trying to drive away the player base? It's a VIDEO game, meaning VISUALS are important.

Did anyone at PGI test these? Or, to backtrack even further, why were they implemented at all? Was there a great clamoring for something like high def minimaps? Was there an outcry of "I need to see every rock, every speck of dust, every tree -- twice!" or something? Was it flawed somehow? And did you learn nothing from suddenly changing the minimap last time? Have you ever heard the phrase, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it?" Or, for you artists, "Less is more?"

There is a reason I -- and plenty of people -- only put a minimal amount of money into this game. As a gamer, I am annoyed. As a graphic designer, I am appalled. Graphic designers who implemented this, you should be ashamed.

Please get your act together and make it palatable to play Mechwarrior again, PGI.

"The past holds wise men as well as fools; Why, then, do we listen only to the foolish When we have another choice?" -The Rememberance (Clan Diamond Shark), Passage 12, Verse 14, Lines 4-7

[IG 88]

sneakolai, on 24 August 2016 - 10:21 AM, said:

Dear PGI Map Designers:

There is a concept you may or may not have learned, but which was certainly drummed in my head when I studied graphic design: contrast. I specifically refer to contrast in regard to hue, value, and intensity. Contrast is necessary for legibility or visibility. In layman's terms, if both the foreground and background are the same, it's impossible to see anything. This works if camouflage is the intended effect, but when designing something that's MEANT to be visible, it's of utmost importance to amp up the contrast.

Another basic lesson I learned as a freshman had to do with typography. Similar to the whole contrast in color/value/intensity, a character (text) needs a certain weight and "color" (thickness, really) to be visible. If the letters are too thin, they can fade into the background. This is especially true if on some kind of textured background. The letters are, effectively, camouflaged.

So why were thin, small letters placed as markers on the minimap grid squares? They are all but invisible on most maps. They become part of the terrain, matching the visuals of rivulets, ravines, and other paths that were so lovingly given so much detail.

In related ridiculousness, the tiny, hard-to-see lettering does not change to anything better when pressing 'B' to use the large map. This map takes up something like 20x the screen real estate of the minimap, but the lettering is the same size (or only fractionally larger). Shouldn't the markers, too, be significantly larger and thicker?

You also fail to take into consideration the needs of those individuals who may be color blind. I may need to squint to read the coordinates (and I already wear glasses, so thank you for that), but the colorblind may not be able to see them at all. The "color blind friendly reticule" does nothing to compensate or mitigate.

The above observations are true on the following maps:

Forest Colony
Frozen City
Caustic Valley
River City
Emerald Taiga
Vitric Forge
Alpine Peaks
Tourmaline Desert
Canyon Network
Crimson Strait
HPG Manifold
The Mining Collective
Viridian Bog
Boreal Vault
Sulfurous Rift
Hellebore Springs
Polar Highlands

This constitutes a full 85% of the playable maps.

The grid coordinate text is tolerable on: Grim Portico, Grim Plexus.

It's okay on: Terra Therma.

Those maps are tolerable/okay because of – you guessed it – contrast. White text can be read on a purple or charcoal grey/black background. Even then the lettering needs to be thicker or bolder, because it’s still starting to fade, but it’s better on these maps because there is an automatic contrast between white and black (or purple).

PGI, what were you thinking? Are you deliberately trying to drive away the player base? It's a VIDEO game, meaning VISUALS are important.

Did anyone at PGI test these? Or, to backtrack even further, why were they implemented at all? Was there a great clamoring for something like high def minimaps? Was there an outcry of "I need to see every rock, every speck of dust, every tree -- twice!" or something? Was it flawed somehow? And did you learn nothing from suddenly changing the minimap last time? Have you ever heard the phrase, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it?" Or, for you artists, "Less is more?"

There is a reason I -- and plenty of people -- only put a minimal amount of money into this game. As a gamer, I am annoyed. As a graphic designer, I am appalled. Graphic designers who implemented this, you should be ashamed.

Please get your act together and make it palatable to play Mechwarrior again, PGI.

you should e-mail that to them

[bukidog]

IG 88, on 24 August 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

you should e-mail that to them

He should, it is well written and addresses the problem clearly.
However, cuz I'm pissed, I did email feedback@mwomercs.com
and received this:

Greetings MechWarrior,

The ticket (206080) you sent to feedback@mwomercs.com has been entered into the Feedback queue. While we do not currently have the resources to guarantee a direct response to each feedback ticket, the Community and Support staff will sort and compile your feedback into a consolidated monthly report before distributing it to the relevant department.

Edited by bukidog, 24 August 2016 - 11:11 AM.

[RestosIII]

bukidog, on 24 August 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

He should, it is well written and addresses the problem clearly.
However, cuz I'm pissed, I did email feedback@mwomercs.com
and received this:

Greetings MechWarrior,

The ticket (206080) you sent to feedback@mwomercs.com has been entered into the Feedback queue. While we do not currently have the resources to guarantee a direct response to each feedback ticket, the Community and Support staff will sort and compile your feedback into a consolidated monthly report before distributing it to the relevant department.[/color]

Monthly report: "As usual, people be pissed, yo."

[C E Dwyer]

SQW, on 23 August 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

Seriously PGI, it was already hard enough to make out grid coordinates with the old mini map especially when Polar Highland was introduced. Instead of making grid coordinate more readable in white-with-black-border like every type setter would tell you, you've made it MORE TRANSPARENT?!

It's these amateur and head scratchingly dumb moves that make people question the competence of some of your employees. I once worked with a guy that instead of changing the color of the entire word in a signage as requested, he just changed the first letter and call it done. Yes, this mini map change is that level of stupid.

The F*** is the new minimap that's what the F*** is

[sneakolai]

IG 88, on 24 August 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

you should e-mail that to them

bukidog, on 24 August 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

He should, it is well written and addresses the problem clearly.
However, cuz I'm pissed, I did email feedback@mwomercs.com
and received this:

Greetings MechWarrior,

The ticket (206080) you sent to feedback@mwomercs.com has been entered into the Feedback queue. While we do not currently have the resources to guarantee a direct response to each feedback ticket, the Community and Support staff will sort and compile your feedback into a consolidated monthly report before distributing it to the relevant department.

I did send it; I also wanted to share with the community 'cuz I wanted everyone, PGI and playerbase, to know that there are (hopefully) well-reasoned, constructive, concerned responses.

As an aside, "she." Not that I'm offended.

[JediPanther]

If pgi knew how to program their game wouldn't be a pos frekenstien of cry engne ver .oo? Their only decent programmer quit years ago and the only thing they can do is insert new mech a month and maybe change an xml spread sheet for "balance." But I'm sure russ' thinking of e-sports,the mech warrior convention of 13 hours with its blitz of news coverage, and the new energy draw system will be here soon and fix every thing.

[AztecD]

Whiplash Wally, on 23 August 2016 - 08:16 PM, said:

Plus the zoom is so far out the new directional arrows are pretty much useless unless you waste a UAV spotting a single mech.

no way, it has directional arrows?

i cant see crap on the new minimap, its zoomed out and the grid letters are just hard to read