63 replies to this topic

[McMurl]

*Some quick facts. ive been playing this game since the very beginning of open beta, im a tier 1 pilot who was put into tier 1 when the tier system was launched, and i have a complete knowledge of most, if not all, tactics and various metas throughout the game, meaning, i aint no scrublord

Moving on, i LOVE the new energy draw system. finally this game feels like a proper Battletech first person mech shoot em up. although i participate heavily in all the various metas that have popped up over the years in order to keep me a competent force on the battefield, i rarely use meta builds when dropping in the pug queues as they arent challenging enough, nor are the fun. Sure, a vomit timber can pump out copious amounts of damage, but its not hard to do so. I play this game as a range mixer. i fit SRMs and large lasers, PPCs and small lasers, LRMs and heavy autocannons. I fit my mech to mesh with the team and to be viable at all ranges. Twin ERPPCs and 4 ASRM 4s on a timber? favorite build atm. PPC, LBX5 and an SRM 6 on a summoner? yes please. (quick note, my average damage per match is 500+. while pretty average, i rarely dip under that, and in a game where having 1 PPC and 1 LBX 5 is considered not viable or useful, i think thats pretty impressive)

The new energy draw system meshes perfectly with this sort of gameplay. The kind of gameplay that Mechwarrior is supposed to be played as, for the most part. Sure, 270m pure brawlers are great to have, but only if you have a couple of them. Sure, double ERLL ravens are great at mobile sniping, but only if you have a couple of them. In the lore, 80% of all mechs, vehicles, aerospace, etc were range mixers. A couple potent long range weapons (which were the primary weapons mind you) and a flurry of medium to close range weaponry for defense. Sure, you had your outliers, such as LRM boats, cyclops', awesomes, mad dogs, etc, but they were few and far between for the most part. Sure you had your mega brawlers, such as the Atlas, Hunchback, kodiaks, etc, but they were also few and far between (all this is relative, sometimes atlas' were fielded in largish numbers, but there were always WAY more range mixers than atlas')

The new energy draw system will finally make MWO great again. Now they just gotta change the maps so that they are a bit more accomodating to this new playstyle

PS: Get accustomed to range mixing and going for constant damage builds, rather than alphas. the sooner you get used to this, the harder the switch will be for you meta junkies

[Johnny Z]

Energy draw along with the new skill tree will make the excellent game play even better. Its all win.

[Peter2k]

I like ED
Needs fine tuning and balancing
And I hope PGI is prepared to hotfix a few things once it's live
But I can see the value in it

Frankly I think I squirrel away and try a dual Gauss dual lbx something build on my dire next

I think players just gotten too used of how we play MWO since 4 years now
Basically what we have now is peek a boo and double tap; double tap the whole time

[El Bandito]

Well, somebody is excited.

[AlphaToaster]

I really liked the original tests before the changes. I got discourged by the direction they took w/ the update.

Rather than try a single change of adjusting the ED:Heat ratio, they made several changes at once.

Someone posted a really solid formula idea for ED cap as it relates to engine size which would really target the problem mechs. Which are mechs that downsize their engines to trade speed for firepower. Smaller engine caps would get smaller ED, but then lighter mechs would get a + modifier to compensate.

I feel there are better ways it can be done and I look foward to continuing testing. At some point I hope there's a two-way discussion for feedback with a final round of testing before it's released. Perhaps an Energy Draw Round Table is coming soon?

[ScrapIron Prime]

I like that energy draw is catering to mixed range mechs as well. They needed more than just map selection to discourage boating. That's battletech lore, that's what I've always run, similar to the OP.

For everyone else, the meta is going to change. It's not the first time. Life will go on. =)

[Mudhutwarrior]

The only ones who have issue are the exploit warriors. It takes effort to find a way to game the system and they are comfortable now. I think the change will be good and will expose many faux good pilots.

[Gas Guzzler]

grievoussmaug, on 25 August 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

i fit SRMs and large lasers, PPCs and small lasers, LRMs and heavy autocannons. I fit my mech to mesh with the team and to be viable at all ranges. Twin ERPPCs and 4 ASRM 4s on a timber? favorite build atm. PPC, LBX5 and an SRM 6 on a summoner? yes please. (quick note, my average damage per match is 500+. while pretty average, i rarely dip under that, and in a game where having 1 PPC and 1 LBX 5 is considered not viable or useful, i think thats pretty impressive)

None of those builds are viable when you have stiff opposition, Energy Draw or not, just FYI.

grievoussmaug, on 25 August 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

Moving on, i LOVE the new energy draw system. finally this game feels like a proper Battletech first person mech shoot em up.

That's ironic because BattleTech nor MechWarrior has ever had a mana energy bar with all weapons tied to it. Its actually the most non-MechWarrior thing ever to grace a MechWarrior game, and is more fitting of the "generic robot shooter" title then the game that we currently have.

[Johnny Z]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 August 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

None of those builds are viable when you have stiff opposition, Energy Draw or not, just FYI.



That's ironic because BattleTech nor MechWarrior has ever had a mana energy bar with all weapons tied to it. Its actually the most non-MechWarrior thing ever to grace a MechWarrior game, and is more fitting of the "generic robot shooter" title then the game that we currently have.

Gas Guzzler says, "Watch me explain how bad energy draw is by doing mental gymnastics."

[TKSax]

Yes I am sure 4 v 4 feels much more like battletech...

[Red Shrike]

I can't be bothered to download the PTS, but from what I've seen, read and heard, I'm not holding my breath over it.

[Gas Guzzler]

Johnny Z, on 25 August 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

Gas Guzzler says, "Watch me explain how bad energy draw is by doing mental gymnastics."

Im sorry that seemed like mental gymnastics to you. It just seemed like simple logic to me, as with all of my other arguments that I have made regarding Energy Draw.

If you want to see mental gymnastics, go check out my "Release the Kingfisher!" posts.

[Johnny Z]

Red Shrike, on 25 August 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

I can't be bothered to download the PTS, but from what I've seen, read and heard, I'm not holding my breath over it.

Basically unless you have an axe to grind or a mech that is easy mode over others and like that sort of thing, your going to like energy draw. I have tried both puclic test server updates and its barely noticeable in a lot of ways from the live sever.

Mechs still over heat and sometime firing is delayed a little bit. But it doesn't screw up firing.

Ok one other thing, macro use will be screwed up a bit. Exact timing macro use anyway, but the macro should recover quickly and easily it just wont be as exact. I never used one ever, but I know how they work.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 August 2016 - 08:26 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Red Shrike, on 25 August 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

I can't be bothered to download the PTS, but from what I've seen, read and heard, I'm not holding my breath over it.

That's honest, which is good. But all the folks who do like energy draw are involved in the test, whereas a significant number who do not like it are not testing it. That says a lot.

[TKSax]

ScrapIron Prime, on 25 August 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

That's honest, which is good. But all the folks who do like energy draw are involved in the test, whereas a significant number who do not like it are not testing it. That says a lot.

Hyperbole much? Both Gas and I who do not like the Energy Draw system have been testing it a lot So please show me proof of this significate number who not testing it. I mean I could say the same about people who like the system also, but I won't because that is just deflecting the conversation without proof.

Edited by TKSax, 25 August 2016 - 08:35 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

ScrapIron Prime, on 25 August 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

That's honest, which is good. But all the folks who do like energy draw are involved in the test, whereas a significant number who do not like it are not testing it. That says a lot.

Yeah you are pulling this out of your ***.

[Johnny Z]

TKSax, on 25 August 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Hyperbole much? Both Gas and I who do no like the Energy Draw system have been testing it a lot So please show me proof of this significate number who not testing it. I mean I could say the same about people who like the system also, but I won't because that is just deflecting the conversation without proof.

Fine but it really depends if your tearing it apart or trying to make it the best it can be. A front firing system is needed for this real time multi player battletech game so maybe help out a bit. Or what ever.

Now that its on test server I have no doubts. Many positives have popped up since then even. For the 10th time relying on heat for every mechanic in the game was relying on a system that shut down mechs. Mechs shutting down all match isn't cool. So now with energy draw they can add more sim elements.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 August 2016 - 08:35 AM.

[nehebkau]

In the testing I have done it has great potential. The things that need to be looked at are:

1. Power pool is currently too high -- you can alpha with it than you can in production
2. Recharge on the pool is too fast. In a perfect world it would recharge slower the more you drain from it. that way firing a small laser would be something you could do continuously with almost no charge, 1 erppc would give you a second charge (or something similar) whereas firing 2x gauss 2x ERPPCs would give you a very very very long recharge time.
3. Heat penalties are not drastic enough for going over which, if PGI implements #2 could be ignored.
4. Some allotment needs to be made for scatter-shot weapons vs pinpoint weapons in energy draw.


Really, if they GET ENERGY DRAW RIGHT they could do away with the firing timers on weapons and have it, across the board, be handled by energy draw. That way every 10 damage weapon would have the same recharge time, eveyr 15 damage weapon, same recharge time. Would make adding new and varied weapons easier.

[ScrapIron Prime]

I used the term "significant number" because it is both accurate and subjective, and because it does not imply an empirical value like using the term "most" would have. But no, I'm not going to cite number by combing threads on this forum and others to count the number of people who have said what Red Shrike stated. That there are multiple people stating such is significant.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 25 August 2016 - 08:41 AM.

[Red Shrike]

Johnny Z, on 25 August 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

Basically unless you have an axe to grind or a mech that is easy mode over others and like that sort of thing, your going to like energy draw. I have tried both puclic test server updates and its barely noticeable in a lot of ways from the live sever.

Mechs still over heat and sometime firing is delayed a little bit. But it doesn't screw up firing.

Ok one other thing, macro use will be screwed up a bit. Exact timing macro use anyway, but the macro should recover quickly and easily it just wont be as exact. I never used one ever, but I know how they work.

You know what, I'll give it a swing and report back to you.