241 replies to this topic

[CMetz]

East Indy, on 01 September 2016 - 07:49 PM, said:

It's a test server — why stop at 25? Try 20. Either Energy Draw controls giant boat alphas or it doesn't. Right now, it's looking like it doesn't. Anyone who'd throw a fit over it doesn't want the game to change.

Exactly. Lets see what can be done and see how the game plays. 20-25 is great. I just want to see a more rolling battle.

[Appuagab]

Summary: «we didn't read your feedback, but have these random tweaks to energy consumption and damage nerfs to underused large lasers».

[Mcgral18]

Oh...the isUAC5 also has a 8 second jam time....


Here, I was thinking it was only the cUACs which were hit because of their weight and slot characteristics over isACs



I was wrong

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 01 September 2016 - 09:34 PM, said:

Oh...the isUAC5 also has a 8 second jam time....


Here, I was thinking it was only the cUACs which were hit because of their weight and slot characteristics over isACs



I was wrong

Well, Paul did say... ALL the ACs.

Paul Inouye, on 01 September 2016 - 02:47 PM, said:

• Ultra Autocannons:
  
  • Global UAC jam time increased to 8 seconds (From 5 Seconds.)

The funny thing was that I missed that the first time I read/skimmed it.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 September 2016 - 09:40 PM.

[Jingseng]

I feel it is worth pointing out that, unless the ED structure of C ER PPC is different/unreported, there's a rather drastic edge given to IS ER PPCs... 5 less ED and 1s less CD... and the difference between IS PPC and IS ER PPC remains largely defined by he min range (and extreme range sniping efficiency).

It seems to me the ED of the IS ER PPC could instead be used to create a gradient between all three...

[Mystere]

Prosperity Park, on 01 September 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

Yeah, but do we need to "test" how balanced the PPCs will be in this situation? I mean, the 12 ton / 4 slot CERPPC setup seems so much better than the 21 tons / 9 slots of IS PPC needed to accomplish the same damage, heat, and energy draw that I don't think there's any need to "test" it.

Meh! I did not claim to know what the person who prepared the test was thinking. I ain't responsible for that.

[VitriolicViolet]

well i like the reduction in draw for lasers but the jam time increase for UAC and CUACs is a bit unbalanced. imo they should have scaling jam time based off caliber, as others have said it shouldnt take just as long to clear a CUAC 2 as a CUAC 20.

the extra duration on the lasers is a bit eh, ill have to see when i hit the PTS again.
I would really like PGI to take a look at LRMs, they always seem to be forgotten any time they adjust balance.

The PPCs should be interesting i run them on only a few mechs and dont use them on my few Clan mechs. That said my 3 PPC Zeus should be happy. imo they look like they balanced the PPCs fairly well (against each other ie PPC, ERPPC and CERPPC) but i will have to log in to the PTS later to test that.

overall im happy with what they have done this time (on paper), PTS1 and 2 were hectic. will be patching the PTS soon.

Ultimately though i am one of those players who doesnt change style build or mech regardless of what they do to weapons quirks etc. My most used mech is the Heavy Metal which i bought after they nerfed it.

[Polkastein]

Too bad PGI didn't have the foresight to make all mechs stock. Some mechs would be better than others of course, but it would definitely be better for their business model and possibly resolve all this alpha/energy draw talk. They would be able to sell new mechs as time and technology progresses in-game. Come get the newest Hunchback, now with pulse lasers! Or retrofit for a considerable sum of c-bills to the newest stock loadout. Hero mechs could actually be viable unlike most of them at this time. Oh well, we're way past that point. Missed opportunity there.

[DerMaulwurf]

So the cER-PPC is going to have higher DPS, better alpha damage, better heat efficiency, lower weight and less slots than its IS counterpart. While having the same speed and range.

Even on überquirked IS-mechs the contest will be close. And on low-quirked chassis you can pretty much forget mounting IS-PPCs.

Sounds legit.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Pariah Devalis, on 01 September 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

On the latter, I never expected PGI to test beyond around 13.5 damage, but given ED limits all weapons based on damage output, this is the perfect time to make it the hot gauss it should be. It's also a huge boon to smaller Clan mechs. C-ERPPC are hot, even without ED or ghost heat. Boating them might not be the greatest idea in the world on a larger mech. However, 15 damage C-ERPPC gives smaller Clan mechs, like the MLX or the ADR, or the SHC access to a high damage weapon system. They can finally, finally go for a "few but large" gun approach, especially when they lack the hardpoints to go with the "many but small" approach.

Do you honestly think the Adder was weak? It hits as hard as most IS 40-45 tonners and 2 ERPPC on it is legitimately good. On live server.

So are MPL builds, LPL builds, SRM builds, you name it.

It has ALWAYS been restricted to a few but large, because a maximum of 5 hardpoints.

The Shadowcat, similarly has been remarkably strong with a 2LPL build "few but large" for MONTHS, using MASC, ECM and high hardpoints to dominate at range.

Also, I think Major Lag would like to have a word with you about his ERPPC mistlynx.

[Mystere]

Paul Inouye, on 01 September 2016 - 02:47 PM, said:

• Weapon Value Changes:
  
  • Autocannons:
    
    • CAC/2
      
      • Energy Consumption decreased to 2 Energy total (from 2.4)
    • CAC/5
      
      • Energy Consumption decreased to 5 Energy total (from 6)
    • CAC/10
      
      • Energy Consumption decreased to 9 Energy total (from 10)
    • CAC/20
      
      • Energy Consumption decreased to 18 Energy total (from 20)

Can't we just get rid of these weapons once and for all? Wiping out 4 weapons that don't even exist in the lore is a great step toward weapons balance for the simple reason that there will be less weapons to balance.

[Deathlike]

Mystere, on 01 September 2016 - 10:46 PM, said:

Can't we just get rid of these weapons once and for all? Wiping out 4 weapons that don't even exist in the lore is a great step toward weapons balance for the simple reason that there will be less weapons to balance.

I think the side problem is that they aren't even "copies" of the CUAC versions that don't have the jams. They should be using similar if not identical values of the weapons in question.

it would take actual effort to redesign LBX since figuring out that old code is Lostech.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 September 2016 - 10:49 PM.

[PyckenZot]

Just reading through this I like what I see and am very eager to go test it out.

One thing though,... ERPCC,... 15 pinpoint damage unlimited ammo gun. I fear it already!

[Kin3ticX]

this is basically going to be ME if/when power draw hits live



and dat 15 damage C/ERPPC lol, seems counter intuitive but im sure it will be fine in the new chainfire everything meta.

[CPTCruz2015]

Just tried UAC's. It seems that the UAC/20 is actually drawing 28 energy instead of 18. It also appears that it will still draw power when it jams. Is this intentional? I might try to provide video later.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

Paul Inouye, on 01 September 2016 - 02:47 PM, said:

• Large Lasers
  
  • Large Laser
    
    • Damage decreased to 8 (from 9)
      
    • Duration increased to 1.15 (from 1)
      
    • Energy Consumption decreased to 7.2 ( from 9)
  • ER Large Laser
    
    • Damage decreased to 8 (from 9)
      
    • Duration increased to 1.3 (from 1.25)
      
    • Energy Consumption decreased to 7.2 (from 9)
  • Large Pulse Laser
    
    • Damage decreased to 9 (from 10)
      
    • Duration increased to 0.8 (from 0.67)
      
    • Energy Consumption decreased to 8.1 (from 10)
  • C ER Large Laser
    
    • Damage decreased to 10 (from 11)
      
    • Energy Consumption decreased to 9 (from 11)
  • C Large Pulse Laser
    
    • Damage decreased to 11 (from 13)
      
    • Duration increased to 1.2 ( from 1.12)
      
    • Energy Consumption decreased to 9.9

A lot of those weapons don't make any sense anymore. Why would you put in 7 tons worth of equipment (IS-LPL) for less damage than a PPC, for less range, with no pinpoint with a pretty long duration? Sorry, you are forgetting a lot of cross-balancing aspects here.

You would have to reduce the heat on those weapons to justify the change, that they are not "hot" anymore, because the range is still rather low, the burn time is rather high and the tonnage for those weapons is also pretty high.

Also: Its unintuitive, why your energy recharges while the laser is still firing. Make it tick-based. Yes, it will become a regeneration vs. burn-time vs. ED-per-tick thing that will be harder to balance, but here, an increased duration would have a direct effect on how well you can wield a weapon vs. pinpoint-ish behavior. This is exactly the core of why you introduced ED - to reduce a massive alpha to one component. Increasing the duration would have already done the trick w/o ED.

Please re-evaluate the base mechanic.

[Sergei Pavlov]

Deathlike, on 01 September 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Believe it or not... SHS also increased heat capacity (back then and now). So, that's wholly inaccurate. You may not have noticed it, but it's there.



Just wanted to expand on my earlier comments...

Reducing the energy draw on the IS LL is like trying to set up a 2 second CERLL that has zero Ghost Heat/Energy Draw penalties... just because the energy draw value is lowered, doesn't make the weapon itself practical (just like MGs in the current game).

You are right, I forgot about that.

I understand that HS and DHS must increase Heat Cap somehow. But MWO should be more similar to Solaris (2.5 sec / round), instead of Battletech (10 sec / round). And Solaris had a much more restrictive HS Heat Cap increase.

Let me rephrase the idea in a more calm way (I was a bit salty yesterday night):

1) Fix Heat Capacity at 30 + HS * 0.1 or DHS * 0.2, or any other formula that keeps it under control.

2) Set heat dissipation at 1 Heat / 0.5 seconds for HS and 2 Heat / 0.5 seconds for DHS, or any other formula that speeds up dissipation higher that it is now.

3) Increase weapon cooldown globally (they are already doing that - that's great).

4) Reduce Ballistics ammo capacity globally to compensate for their lower heat. Ammo was always the limiting factor for ballistics. Make it so.

5) Tweat weapon heat generation to balance everything out, if necessary.

The result is a much more simple system, easier to understand and remember.

[PitchBlackYeti]

The IS LL changes...I don't even...

Welcome back PPC meta, especially with those 15 dmg CERPPCs...

Really guys, we already went down this road before, there was a time where almost no one used IS LLs and LPL's because they were simply too heavy for the bang provided (especially LPL). If you want to castrate a weapon this much again, I'd rather you flushed all weapon quirks first and carried on from there.

[BLOOD WOLF]

What some people don't get and you would have thought by now, There is more to balancing than theoretical post's about ED. You have to also demonstrate why their is a flaw.

If you haven't noticed by now, paul has been taking data from the PTS.

Just want to mention that.

[Leopardo]

Nah pgi really give some energy system from the crowd a chance - or just read and implant what they suggest
Bcuz what you going to do and doing is wrong way now but was started good