215 replies to this topic

[Iron Buccaneer]

Two faction is just bad game design lore aside. And this is all a result of bad design. Either way there are other games to play. If you make a game based on an established setting then that setting needs to be respected. I could give a crap about random stompy robot games. Or at the very least I would look for one that works better than this one. I play because this was Battletech. I would guess an awful lot of other people do as well.

[DarklightCA]

MischiefSC, on 07 September 2016 - 11:33 PM, said:

So the key to fixing Faction Warfare was removing Factions and just have it be IS v Clan with a leaderboard?

Because that's what this is. There are no 'populated planets'. Just a single QP queue that instead of being split pug/premade with a matchmaker is split IS v Clan. The 'planets' are not less relevant than they were before.

I never said it was going to fix all of Faction Warfares problems. I just said that PGI was being realistic about the population the gamemode has. If making it IS vs Clan makes Faction Play another version of Quick Play than the gamemode already is another version of Quick Play so it doesn't matter regardless as factions currently still don't matter.

As much as I prefer having multiple factions fighting each other, that's just not realistic for the population this gamemode represents. I'd rather have the capability to get games rather than maintain this illusion that factions actually matter because the only things factions are currently accomplishing is spreading out the population and making it difficult for people to find games.

As for planets, they have always been pointless and planetary rewards has not changed that any as the planet cap removed any form of competitive elements it could have had. This won't make planets anymore relevant no but I wasn't arguing that point. Just that PGI is finally being realistic about what they can accomplish for this gamemode and the limited population is has.

Edited by DarklightCA, 08 September 2016 - 02:03 PM.

[Iron Buccaneer]

So because of bad game design we should continue bad game design? This game isn't good enough to be a generic shooter.

[MortZA]

eh, I like. Might actually get a game within a reasonable amount of time.

QP maps with respawns sounds interesting (I wonder how they're going to stop spawn camping?)

[DarklightCA]

Iron Buccaneer, on 08 September 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

So because of bad game design we should continue bad game design? This game isn't good enough to be a generic shooter.

Everything about Faction Play is bad game design, yet you still play it. I am sure PGI would prefer to have kept the 10 factions but how is keeping a limited population spread out between those 10 factions good game design? Being the most common complaint about the gamemode is people struggling to find games or waiting 15 minutes to get one.

[Baulven]

DarklightCA, on 08 September 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

Everything about Faction Play is bad game design, yet you still play it. I am sure PGI would prefer to have kept the 10 factions but how is keeping a limited population spread out between those 10 factions good game design? Being the most common complaint about the gamemode is people struggling to find games or waiting 15 minutes to get one.

If they fixed the myriad of self inflicted problems and issues there would be population.

[DarklightCA]

Baulven, on 08 September 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

If they fixed the myriad of self inflicted problems and issues there would be population.

You think that is the more likely scenario here? That after many years of creating a bad gamemode that PGI will out of the blue scrap Faction Play and create a amazing new one in a short amount of time that everybody will love and everybody will flock to from around the world.

As nice as that would be, condensing the population is the more realistic thing PGI can do at this point.

[-Waffler]

I still don't understand the whole Lore argument. Is the game supposed to be played like a book? Or did everyone forget that this was a multi-player game?

[Baulven]

DarklightCA, on 08 September 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

You think that is the more likely scenario here? That after many years of creating a bad gamemode that PGI will out of the blue scrap Faction Play and create a amazing new one in a short amount of time that everybody will love and everybody will flock to from around the world.

As nice as that would be, condensing the population is the more realistic thing PGI can do at this point.

Well no I don't think at this point it will work because PGI has gone far out of its way to destroy good will from a niche die hard franchise. I don't think there is much that would get the majority of people to come back.

As for lore, yes I want to be a ghost bear. I am not any of the other factions, I never have been from table top to any game that it was an option.

[Gerwig]

Reducing buckets will absolutely not fix anything about the game mode. It will however make the game mode more palatable for the people that are hanging on while other changes can be implemented. Long queue times may reduced and may actually increase the population a little as wait times are a huge issue for people.

Faction play won't ever be fixed until you can alleviate some of the pug vs. organized team combat and the failure of asymmetric balance. Add the fact that there has to be a way to balance the population so there aren't 3x the players on one side which of course also include the most seasoned players.

Unfortunately Russ has been obstinate towards many suggestions over the years on how to do so.

Quickplay shouldn't get a group mode, it's either quick play, faction play(group play) and private lobbies for comp play.

[Iron Buccaneer]

DarklightCA, on 08 September 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

Everything about Faction Play is bad game design, yet you still play it. I am sure PGI would prefer to have kept the 10 factions but how is keeping a limited population spread out between those 10 factions good game design? Being the most common complaint about the gamemode is people struggling to find games or waiting 15 minutes to get one.

Last year I played CW. I almost never played QP. This year when I do play I tend to QP. I tend to drop a few Factions matches a week but I just don't like the direction the game went in Phase 3. I tried to like it at launch but it just didn't work. They drastically reduced the buckets among other things and it didn't matter at all. Doubling down on the bad ideas from Phase 3 won't make people want to play this mode.

[Gerwig]

Reducing the bucket sizes didn't help because the changes were so bad it cut the population in half if not more.

[Positive Mental Attitude]

Considering most of the so called factions aka loyalist are do nothings I dont see much changing on that front, if they quit nothing will change from the playerbase of actual players standpoint. Also considering the mercs are the ones who play all the time and they dont care about lore, or if its called red vs blue I'm happy.

I'm also very happy that lore specialist dont get to vote the actual players away from the fights.

Good riddance.

[DarklightCA]

Iron Buccaneer, on 08 September 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

Last year I played CW. I almost never played QP. This year when I do play I tend to QP. I tend to drop a few Factions matches a week but I just don't like the direction the game went in Phase 3. I tried to like it at launch but it just didn't work. They drastically reduced the buckets among other things and it didn't matter at all. Doubling down on the bad ideas from Phase 3 won't make people want to play this mode.

The bucket changes they made did not matter because the population was still spread out between 10 factions. There was a lot of people playing at phase 3 launch and you could still notice issues with populations.

I was dissapointed in phase 3 as well because I had thought planetary rewards would have inspired more unit activity but they had put a planet cap on it so beyond conquering the 6 planets required planets still remained useless and there was enough planets for everybody so no competition was sparked.

As much as everybody wants factions to remain as I would imagine PGI as well, there just isn't any population to support it.

Edited by DarklightCA, 08 September 2016 - 03:06 PM.

[Gerwig]

There is more they could do to keep factions in, but I would almost rather PGI realize their limitations and keep keep it simple so that they dont screw it up.

[Iron Buccaneer]

DarklightCA, on 08 September 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

The bucket changes they made did not matter because the population was still spread out between 10 factions. There was a lot of people playing at phase 3 launch and you could still notice issues with populations.

I am not defending phase 3 or faction play design, I was dissapointed in phase 3 as well because I had thought planetary rewards would have inspired more unit activity but they had put a planet cap on it so beyond conquering the 6 planets required planets still remained useless and there was enough planets for everybody so no competition was sparked.

I am not a big fan of how faction play was made and I am not defending the idea as a game changer to make it more interesting. I am just defending the idea of their change to make it IS vs Clan as it's the most realistic thing they could have done. As much as everybody wants factions to remain as I would imagine PGI as well, there just isn't any population to support it.

We've already had two major events where we had one IS vs Clad bucket. Those didn't work out that well so one bucket sucks as well. There used to be active units in every faction. Sometimes things would slow down a bit but if you wanted a match you could usually find one. There were plenty of times that fighting was going on on most if not all fronts.

This is still just QP 2.0 to me. Don't much care for QP 1.0....

[Tarl Cabot]

Playing Devil's Advocate here.

• Originally the QP queue was supposed to only be a place holder until CW went live, hai?
  
• Mercs that went Clan and who fought OTHER Clans were spit on for the most part... Clans were supposed to fight ONLY IS.....hai?
  
• Southern Houses could NOT attack a Clan held planet until Clans pushed down or the Houses pushed up, many complained about that, hai?
  
• The good thing about Southern Houses, without Clan involvement, could fight each other, something the Clans basically spit on and rarely did. Why would a Clanner want to fight another Clanner with only Clan mechs..., hai?

• Phase 3 - the biggest issue has been the Long Tom and its damage, and how it was activated. For the Clan VS IS, the Clans were generally favored. Pugs already felt cornered (defense since they rarely attacked) vs units which generally launched attacks, Clan or IS, as that is the only way to MOVE forward.

So new guy Derek is working on the FP with Russ. Hopefully that is a good first step.. look at previous results if in doubt. Clans do not want to fight Clans, merc or loyalist. IS vs IS, so, so, but more so for those that do NOT like/care for the Clans, it had given them an out. Again, previously Southern Houses could not attack/CLAIM worlds vs Clans unless the Clans made it south.

No player-made Alliances at the moment, as such "Alliances will be hard-coded, hopefully for the time being, with special events for Clan vs Clan (about fraking time, may they soiled in their mechs) and IS vs IS (nothing new here).

Using single drop QP maps/modes in part of the tug of war. Again, this was original expectation when PGI started MWO. Then later the rewards will be reviewed and increased, no details provided on that, iirc. Scouting mode will be altered in it will not trigger the LT mechanism, as it will be REPLACED.

4 Buckets? 4 Clan borders. CFC, CW, CGB, CSJ. The question should be, where will the borders be set at? Are they moving up the timeline, as the current map is set at the Periphery Campaign. Will they move it up to the First or Second Wave?

There are a few other things I am missing atm. Really though, even before Phase 3 and after Phase 3, is what PGI is planning really THAT bad? We never did have the ability to cut supply lines behind a Clan marching south, or a House marching north, east, etc. The planets captured or lost had no real meaning, and it took the same effort. And...how am I kidding.. frak it.

/orders a bottle of sake...

The End.

[justcallme A S H]

I went to bed, this post was on like page 3... Now it's page 7.

People got excited fast.

[Novakaine]

PGI basic error was allowing merc units to jump between whatever faction it chose.
Whenever they chose.
In "lore" and I know how some hate this term.
Clans would never hire mercenaries.
Period.
If you want to be Clans then be that and vice versa.
Play your opposite mechs in quick play or group play you if want.
But your faction was permanent or maybe once a year given the option to change.
Secondly each faction should have had "perks" for being a part of it.
Reduced prices for certain mechs, cbill bonuses for low population factions and reduced cost for certain weapons.
Any number of ways to to make a certain factions appealing.
And thirdly no one wants to wait 15 to 30 minutes only to get stomped by elite groups.
And that's what has really driven pugs away let face it.
Fixes for this should be simple, but with PGI........

[Fake News]

did pgi speak to any drop commanders before putting forward this **** idea?