71 replies to this topic

[Requiemking]

Andi Nagasia, on 16 September 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

all very true, but as i said thats an BattleMech vs OmniMech Discussion, which is another Topic,
as with the current OmniSystem, an IS OmniMechs will have the same problem as Clan OmniMechs,

all this will do is make the playing field for when Quirks are reworked,
which is very likely in the future as with Energy Draw, & balance Changes it will bring,
which is why im asking everyone to vote, for or against doesnt matter, Please Vote
Edit-

Except, you don't seem to understand how badly this will destroy game balance. IS already have single slug ballistics that allow them to put all of their damage into a single point. Giving them ghost ammo will simply make is so that IS Ballistic Lights, such as Panther 10P, will be strictly better than Clan Ballistic Lights, such as Mist Lynx D. Clans already pay for the tonnage disparity by having bad spread on their LBX ACs and four shot burst-fire on everything else.

Edited by Requiemking, 17 September 2016 - 09:40 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Requiemking, on 17 September 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

Except, you don't seem to understand how badly this will destroy game balance. IS already have single slug ballistics that allow them to put all of their damage into a single point. Giving them ghost ammo will simply make is so that IS Ballistic Lights, such as Panther 10P, will be strictly better than Clan Ballistic Lights, such as Mist Lynx D. Clans already pay for the tonnage disparity by having bad spread on their LBX ACs and four shot burst-fire on everything else.

then it will make Buffing C-UACs easier, such as adding in a Jam bar and removing some of the Jam RNG,
if this would Put IS ACs over the Top, then Clan UACs can get their Jam Chance reduced to be fair, Right?

[Requiemking]

Andi Nagasia, on 17 September 2016 - 05:16 PM, said:

then it will make Buffing C-UACs easier, such as adding in a Jam bar and removing some of the Jam RNG,
if this would Put IS ACs over the Top, then Clan UACs can get their Jam Chance reduced to be fair, Right?

Nope, not even close. Because IS will still be better because they can outlast Clan in a protracted fight. Jam RNG, while irritating, isn't a problem. Four shot burst-fire, however, is. Yeah, the numbers on CUAC ammo/ton may look higher, but thanks to the way they fire, they have the same number of shots as an IS AC, but their damage is also spreadable, which IS don't have to deal with.

Edited by Requiemking, 18 September 2016 - 04:27 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Requiemking, on 18 September 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

Nope, not even close. Because IS will still be better because they can outlast Clan in a protracted fight. Jam RNG, while irritating, isn't a problem. Four shot burst-fire, however, is. Yeah, the numbers on CUAC ammo/ton may look higher, but thanks to the way they fire, they have the same number of shots as an IS AC, but their damage is also spreadable, which IS don't have to deal with.

your saying that 1IS-AC20 vs 1C-UAC20,
and the UAC was allows to fire and Double tap once(40Damage) with no Chance of Jam,
that the AC20(20Damage) would still be better, because its only 1 Shell,

i agree having 1 Shell is an Important Buff, but i think we need to look at this fully,
this, as a buff to IS-ACs could allow for more Reliable Clan-UACs, which i feel is needed,

[Requiemking]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 September 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

your saying that 1IS-AC20 vs 1C-UAC20,
and the UAC was allows to fire and Double tap once(40Damage) with no Chance of Jam,
that the AC20(20Damage) would still be better, because its only 1 Shell,

i agree having 1 Shell is an Important Buff, but i think we need to look at this fully,
this, as a buff to IS-ACs could allow for more Reliable Clan-UACs, which i feel is needed,

A buff, maybe. Not this kind of buff.

[Andi Nagasia]

Requiemking, on 18 September 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

A buff, maybe. Not this kind of buff.

its 1 Ton, but i can tell you, with 1-2ACs(1-2Tons) or 3-4Missiles(3-4Tons), that can add up Quickly,
(3Tons separates a 250STD, from a 275STD)(3Tons separates a 325XL, from a 350XL)
(5Tons separates a 225STD, from a 225XL)(6Tons separates a 250STD, from a 250XL)
this could allow players to take a larger Engine or even an STD engine when they would use a XL other wise,
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 21 September 2016 - 01:46 PM.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

How about this... (Forgive me, I drank a bit before writing this)...

Lets make clan weapons the OP awesome sauce they are supposed to be... But with an added penalty which I will post later...

Lets make Clan Er PPCs doe 15 damage!
Lets make all clan lasers the same beam duration as their IS counterparts but with increased range and damage!
Lets make clan acs and clan uacs solid slugs like IS mechs have!

But lets keep IS on the current ghost heat system we have now...
And migrate clan over to this energy draw system thing they want to implement!

Lets also keep inner sphere on the same heatsink table thats currently still on Live servers... But move clans over to this new lower cap higher disipation heatsink thing from pts5!

Ok sorry... i guess I went crazy talk nutzoid... I'll show my self the door...

[Andi Nagasia]

@Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky
wouldnt work, also you are Drunk! you know better,
Sir give me your Mech Keys, call a friend to come pick you up,

=Friends dont Let Friends MechWarrior Drunk=

=(unless they are at a Party, then its ok'ish)=

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Andi Nagasia, on 19 September 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

@Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky
wouldnt work, also you are Drunk! you know better,
Sir give me your Mech Keys, call a friend to come pick you up,

=Friends dont Let Friends MechWarrior Drunk=

=(unless they are at a Party, then its ok'ish)=

Forgive me! I know not what I do!

[Mawai]

Interesting idea ... but it seems to me that your suggestion simply boils down to reducing the weight and crit spaces of most of the heavier IS weapons by one ton and one space then simply forcing the player to take ammo/HS for the remaining ton/crit.

You would achieve the same balance more or less by just making the 1ton/1crit reduction and then allowing the player to choose what to fill with that additional ton/space.

However, that 1 ton/1 space reduction is pretty much the same as what the clan weapons start off at in most cases ... so the idea really is to more or less normalize the IS weapon weight and crit requirements to their clan counterparts.

[Andi Nagasia]

Mawai, on 06 October 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Interesting idea ... but it seems to me that your suggestion simply boils down to reducing the weight and crit spaces of most of the heavier IS weapons by one ton and one space then simply forcing the player to take ammo/HS for the remaining ton/crit.

You would achieve the same balance more or less by just making the 1ton/1crit reduction and then allowing the player to choose what to fill with that additional ton/space.

However, that 1 ton/1 space reduction is pretty much the same as what the clan weapons start off at in most cases ... so the idea really is to more or less normalize the IS weapon weight and crit requirements to their clan counterparts.

yes, making IS and Clan weapons Closer in Tonnage and Crit Slots bu Saving IS 1Ton of Ammo,
but by doing this this way it also keeps both sides feeling different, as to keep with look and feel of a MW Game,

[Serpentbane]

Why balance Clan and IS mechs? Why not make the game closer to BT universe, where the Clans had the techs and IS the numbers? This is not just a robot shooter after all, it’s a BT game, and the IS had to balance with numbers for a very, very long time.

Not to steel this thread, but I feel people are thinking to narrow for this game to develop into a real BT game. A ton of amo will not make this game better, it just removes the difference between Clan and IS mechs even more.
http://mwomercs.com/...-down-the-road/

Edited by Serpentbane, 20 October 2016 - 05:43 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

@Serpentbane,
well this Approach doesnt conflict with lore,
it Brings IS and Clan Closer in Balance wail also keeping both Distinctly Different,
-
10 vs 12, never worked in testing, so its unlikely we will ever see it implemented,
even 10 vs 11 wasnt balanced, and caused problems even with Clan True Tech,
but thats another Topic in it self,

[a gaijin]

Any of you that want all these changes are adding more complications to a game that's already over-engineered (adding quirks was one of PGI's most injudicious decisions).

Instead of adding additional disarrangements in the form of weapons, mechs, and tech PGI should focus on adding more play modes that will appeal to more players.

MWO team deathmatch is fun for 30 minutes a day at present. PGI needs to add more play modes that'll make people want to spend hours and hours a day playing.

A variety of really diverse play modes adds a lot more than more missile, more lasers, more guns, and mechs, or more inane quirk tweaking.

[Andi Nagasia]

Lone Wanderer, on 20 October 2016 - 08:14 PM, said:

Any of you that want all these changes are adding more complications to a game that's already over-engineered (adding quirks was one of PGI's most injudicious decisions).

Instead of adding additional disarrangements in the form of weapons, mechs, and tech PGI should focus on adding more play modes that will appeal to more players.

MWO team deathmatch is fun for 30 minutes a day at present. PGI needs to add more play modes that'll make people want to spend hours and hours a day playing.

A variety of really diverse play modes adds a lot more than more missile, more lasers, more guns, and mechs, or more inane quirk tweaking.

this isnt hard to Explain in lore or to New Players,
what this does it allow Faction Weapons to be balanced with out those Quirks you hate so much,

[a gaijin]

Andi Nagasia, on 23 October 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

this isnt hard to Explain in lore or to New Players,

what this does it allow Faction Weapons to be balanced with out those Quirks you hate so much,

In all honestly additional weapons would be cool to have in MWO...in the future. I'm actually not totally against that at all, despite what it seems like.

Right now what I really want is for what's already in the game to be optimally balanced so that any new weapons added would just have to be balanced against what's already there. And I think it kind of is or at least pretty close to optimal. It seems all weapons have their place and nothing really seems OP at the moment.

However, more than weapons, I'd primarily want is to have more play mode content added such as a 'campaign' style single-player-ish/co-op like mode added where we basically have the same kinds of missions -- with a storyline -- as we had in MW2 & 3, but replacing the enemy a.i. mechs with real people. That would be an interesting experience.

Edited for grammar.

Edited by Lone Wanderer, 23 October 2016 - 08:25 PM.

[Requiemking]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 September 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

your saying that 1IS-AC20 vs 1C-UAC20,
and the UAC was allows to fire and Double tap once(40Damage) with no Chance of Jam,
that the AC20(20Damage) would still be better, because its only 1 Shell,

i agree having 1 Shell is an Important Buff, but i think we need to look at this fully,
this, as a buff to IS-ACs could allow for more Reliable Clan-UACs, which i feel is needed,

The problem is that this pretty much destroys balance completely. IS AC20 is already a powerful, reliable weapon(unlike UAC20s, which suffer from massive ammo consumption and dodgy hitreg). It doesn't need ghost ammo, as it is already more powerful than it's Clan counterparts. The only ammo related change that needs to be made, and this applies to all ACs, is to normalise AC damage-per-ton at 200 for ALL ACs, regardless of size or side. Once that is out of the way, then it will be balanced because, as I stated earlier, Clan ACs/ Missiles are balanced because of bad spread on LBXACs/SRMs, Stream-fire on LRMs, and four-shot burst fire on everything else.

[Andi Nagasia]

Requiemking, on 24 October 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

The problem is that this pretty much destroys balance completely. IS AC20 is already a powerful, reliable weapon(unlike UAC20s, which suffer from massive ammo consumption and dodgy hitreg). It doesn't need ghost ammo, as it is already more powerful than it's Clan counterparts. The only ammo related change that needs to be made, and this applies to all ACs, is to normalise AC damage-per-ton at 200 for ALL ACs, regardless of size or side. Once that is out of the way, then it will be balanced because, as I stated earlier, Clan ACs/ Missiles are balanced because of bad spread on LBXACs/SRMs, Stream-fire on LRMs, and four-shot burst fire on everything else.

Power Draw will already shift balance, and id rather this be done for Future Balance than later,
perhaps its unnecessary, but lets look at mechs that benefit most from this, IS light & Mediums,
also this system helps create a level of Equal Balance, perhaps allowing for better Clan Quirks,
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 25 October 2016 - 07:27 PM.

[Ustarish]

its not about tonnage, weapons or even quirks...
its about clam xl engines.

how many years will it take for you guys to understand it?

[Andi Nagasia]

Ustarish, on 27 October 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

its not about tonnage, weapons or even quirks...
its about clam xl engines.

how many years will it take for you guys to understand it?

i would rather have Is & Clan weapons more balanced, Why?
so IS weapons Quirks can be Lessoned, & so Clan can get some Weapon Quirks,
also so Clan can get more Quirks in General, preferably Structure Quirks,