232 replies to this topic

[Draelren]

I think a more simulation based experienced would be prefered. Plus to make the mechs actually take on their true names would be nice. What's a Vulture? Daishi? But then again I was always a clanner when I played.

Anyway, sorry for briefly getting off-topic.

I like the idea of the simulation, it would make me play it a lot more, and a lot longer than any MA based system. I personally had a lot of fun with MW2, 3, and 4 all. But MA I played until I beat the campaign and then dropped it. Didn't like the changes they made to it, especially the unlimited ammo.

[Basch]

Oppi, on 11 December 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:

Hey guys, I read all that talking about MW2 beeing closer to the TT, but I played it when I was quite young, never beat it and don't really remember what it felt like. Could someone give me some details on the differences between MW2 and 4, or is there some sarna page that covers them ? (didn't find one)

keep in mind MW2 was limited by the computers at the time it was out, the meches had a slight sluggish feel behind it, PPC's washed over your mech blinding you for a sec, rockets hit you like a tone of brickes knocking you around and the lasers just sliced though you. You could damn near fully custmize your mech layout from the generator, armor, and weapons as well as where you wanted it in your mech (as long as you stayed in the mech weight class).

[Raeven]

Never played MA. What did people really not like about it?

[Basch]

Raeven, on 11 December 2011 - 05:42 PM, said:

Never played MA. What did people really not like about it?

It was an arcade game, guy with the biggest gun wins, this was dubble for online play. If you didnt have the ragnarock you lose. Game play was dull, destory building recive upgrade or repair, only had 3 differnt weps on the mech and cant change any of it. However thats just my experence of the game and i never considered it MW content, just a look alike with **** poor quality.

Edited by Basch, 11 December 2011 - 06:00 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Basch, on 11 December 2011 - 05:01 PM, said:

keep in mind MW2 was limited by the computers at the time it was out, the meches had a slight sluggish feel behind it, PPC's washed over your mech blinding you for a sec, rockets hit you like a tone of brickes knocking you around and the lasers just sliced though you. You could damn near fully custmize your mech layout from the generator, armor, and weapons as well as where you wanted it in your mech (as long as you stayed in the mech weight class).

The Mechs had a real sluggish feel, not slight ERPPCs fired big blue floating balls of DOOM! That you could sidestep at ranges over 100m in a Light or Medium Mech, 200m in a Heavy/Assault Rockets weren't all that rocked a Mech around on impact either, gauss and the AC20s did that as well, as did hitting another Mech physically, ramming..or DFAing It was very simulator based, almost direct from TT, with some things, like the ERPPCs slow time to target, being just..totally out of the blue and annoying as all hells. But they sold 7 million copies of that thing, so they did something right, since none of the others in the series beat those sales.

Raeven...MA was very VERY arcade based, it was a game designed for kids, straight up, and did well for that reason with the target audience, kids. And the XBox Live multiplayer that it had, which had so many features that are now considered 'must have' for any console online game..but weren't common back then Kid's arcade action game that MS gutted the MW series for and just used the skin for fan retention..which failed.

[Basch]

Kristov Kerensky, on 11 December 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

The Mechs had a real sluggish feel, not slight ERPPCs fired big blue floating balls of DOOM! That you could sidestep at ranges over 100m in a Light or Medium Mech, 200m in a Heavy/Assault Rockets weren't all that rocked a Mech around on impact either, gauss and the AC20s did that as well, as did hitting another Mech physically, ramming..or DFAing It was very simulator based, almost direct from TT, with some things, like the ERPPCs slow time to target, being just..totally out of the blue and annoying as all hells. But they sold 7 million copies of that thing, so they did something right, since none of the others in the series beat those sales.

Raeven...MA was very VERY arcade based, it was a game designed for kids, straight up, and did well for that reason with the target audience, kids. And the XBox Live multiplayer that it had, which had so many features that are now considered 'must have' for any console online game..but weren't common back then Kid's arcade action game that MS gutted the MW series for and just used the skin for fan retention..which failed.

Thanks for picking that up, i knew i had some mistakes in their since its been quite awhile since i played MW2

[Catamount]

Mechassault was an okay game in its own right...

*runs and hides*


That said, it was a downright terribad Mechwarrior game, that subtracted much and added nothing, at least in terms of mech-related gameplay. Mechwarrior 4 may have grossly oversimplified certain aspects of the gameplay, and I was as dismayed at it breaking from the sim roots as much as anyone, but at least some of that actually had the positive impact of making a more balanced title than MW3 (no more striders boating 492,851,398 medium lasers). The MA simplification was much more massive, and served absolutely no purpose other than to compensate for the fact that a console controller is the worst interface imaginable to pilot a mech with, by making the game 100% "Aim VERY roughly in the kind-of sort-of direction of your enemy and button mash" gameplay.

Again, I can understand the fun people had, because it was not a bad game, and its modernity did mean it features some halfway decent multiplayer, but as a mechwarrior game, it basically fails abjectly, and is vastly inferior in pretty much every aspect to even the worst of the MW games.

Edited by Catamount, 11 December 2011 - 07:51 PM.

[KingCobra]

I can say yes i have played mw2-mw4mektek and all expansions plus exleast 20+ PC mech games & TT & Xbox mech.The Truth is all were a cross between the two arcade & simulation.A true simulation like microsoft flight simulator 2011 is a real time training simulator not arcade but MWO i do not think will go to this extreme in a mech simulatior why you ask?Becouse the kids would not play or support it at first.MWO needs to take a two step approch #1 a more arcade/battle game type to draw all the 10-15 year olds away from COD,Battlefield3,ect and let them just pick a mech and go fight till the time(A few months) when they just tire of this game type and want a more emersive gametype a simulated version of MWO which includes a storyline and objectives.
At this point they are hooked and want more content which would mean a PVE gametype.A total Simulation of timelines and battle events to play out of the novels & TT lore in realtime with there characters and mechs.anthing less at this point and they might drop the game.As a long time Mechwarrior i myself would like this type of PVE experiance to be able to make my character and travel down the Mechwarrior timelines doing missions and objectives for rank and honor.In truth there are many types of simulations or game types that everyone in this community is expecting out of MWO the trick will be to blend it all into one big exciting game that all will play be hooked on and stay with to call it there own great Mechwarrior expereance.

Edited by KingCobra, 11 December 2011 - 08:02 PM.

[Siris]

I always had a draw to the MA series, and although it did a poor job being loyal to the original intent of games such as MW, it did what it was designed to do well enough- be a relatively simple pick-up-and-play mech fighter that most people could do. In the second installation of MA, they became closer to a multiplayer aspect for the game, and whether or not this is a result of something is beyond me. However, a new MW game would have easily surpassed the multiplayer intent that came with MA2.

As for the original question, the MW series has always been about the mech-sim feel, as it is perhaps it's unique feature above all. However, an amount of arcade should be implemented since MWO will be about everyone duking it out and affecting the world around them in the process. Here meaning little field advantages, a small shooter twist in combat, and that overall MMO feel.

IMO

Edited by Siris, 11 December 2011 - 09:42 PM.

[EGG]

Kristov Kerensky, on 11 December 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

Just so people understand something behind the cries to make MWO as simulator like as possible...

MW2, designed, marketed and sold as a BattleTech sim sold over 7 million copies and sales topping over 70 million USD.

MW3/4, MC and MA were all less and less sim like and all sold less copies and didn't make as much money, with MW4, despite having multiple expansion packs, not actually have really good sales, to the point where MicroSoft ended the series with it and shifted over to the new XBox market with MA, which wasn't a great sales topper either.

To date, the best selling and most critically acclaimed BTU based games have been the ones that stuck as closely as possible to the TT systems and/or were simulators, not arcade games. The Tesla Pods, which were the basis for MW4 originally, down to literally using the same engine and many of the same models, did well and were straight up Mech simulators, with no arcade qualities at all. MS screwed up by taking THAT basis and dumping it for the arcade system they used in MW4, despite having the best Mech sim engine ever made as the heart of the game, complete with many of the people who'd built that engine. I was extremely excited when MW4 was originally talked about and we were informed of the fact that the folks who'd made the Tesla Pods, and the engine it used, were to be the basis for MW4. Sadly, MS did it's bit to make MW4 as dumb as possible so they could LCD it to as many people as possible, and ended up killing the franchise.

So..simple recap..MW games that are close to the TT system as possible = big money+critical acclaim+rabid fanatic fanbases
MW games that are arcade like and LCD = not big money+critically panned+rapid fanatic fanbases

I know which one I'd go for if it was my money backing the venture..how about you?

*edit- rapid fanatic fanbase for the arcade version is NOT a typo*

I can't find independent MW2 sales figures, the localditch.com MW2 site suggests $70M USD, but describes this as sales for "the Mechwarrior 2 series of games".

Which likely means: DOS, Win95, Mercs, GBL Dos, GBL Win95, TTT, Battlepack, Netmech, 3dfx, S3 Virge, STB Velocity, Matrox Mystique, ATI Rage, Playstation & Saturn!

On top of that, I'd suggest sales would have been increased by the extent to which it was packaged with PC's/3D cards, and I'd argue fewer AAA titles (of 95/96 quality) being released in that same period. Also MW3/4 had to deal with the fact that MW2 had essentially defined most of the big-mech genre in one game, much the same as CnC/RA titles had trouble overcoming their predecessors.

[Raeven]

MW3's biggest problem is it didn't get enough support for multiplayer when MP was the rage at the time. It was a fairly well balanced 'Mech simulator, but the lag in multiplayer (when we were all using 56k baud modems) was really what did it in. It had some of the best single player missions of any of the 'Mechwarrior series and took some very innovative steps with the game, such as the floating reticle.
MW3 was also hit by lack of support when FASA studios was brought online to build the next 'Mech games and FASA going out of business.

[Riptor]

Didnt the Devs said that they would try to give new players a more simple control scheme while sim fans can have their"tons o buttons" to push?

I think this had allready been asked early on and answered in one of the first interviews.

[Holmes]

Mech Assault is to MechWarrior games what Halo and Call of Duty are for the FPS genre. Ruining something great by marketing to the lowest common denominator (hence, most profitable.)

PLEASE more simulation and less arcade.

[Red Beard]

Basch, on 11 December 2011 - 05:59 PM, said:

It was an arcade game, guy with the biggest gun wins, this was dubble for online play. If you didnt have the ragnarock you lose. Game play was dull, destory building recive upgrade or repair, only had 3 differnt weps on the mech and cant change any of it. However thats just my experence of the game and i never considered it MW content, just a look alike with **** poor quality.

This gentleman has NO clue what he is saying. MA was a much deeper game than what he is suggesting. I can only say that I doubt Basch has even played this game. I put in over 5 years of play on MA and can tell you that NOTHING he just posted is valid.

While MA WAS indeed an arcade game, there was a great deal of true depth to the gameplay. True, it was not a simulator, but it did offer action gamers a chance to play a game with the BT flavor. Some people think that MA was a heretical game for the liberties that Day 1 studios took in making new mechs and weapons. I would simply say that that is being close minded. But, we are all entitled to an opinion.

MechAssault was a top selling BT game, going platinum in less than a year, and selling over 4 million worldwide through the course of it's life. Few, if any MW games can claim sales stats like that. MA also enjoyed consistent DLC release, AT NO COST. That was a brilliant portion of Day 1 studios genius. They released new maos, new mechs and new game types, at no cost.

Some didn't like the top-down view point style of play, but I did. While I agree it would not work in a simulator game, it was awesome in MA.

If you don't know what you are saying, Basch, you should refrain from posting. You only served to display your ignorance.

[Holmes]

Red Beard, on 12 December 2011 - 08:18 AM, said:

This gentleman has NO clue what he is saying. MA was a much deeper game than what he is suggesting. I can only say that I doubt Basch has even played this game. I put in over 5 years of play on MA and can tell you that NOTHING he just posted is valid.

While MA WAS indeed an arcade game, there was a great deal of true depth to the gameplay. True, it was not a simulator, but it did offer action gamers a chance to play a game with the BT flavor. Some people think that MA was a heretical game for the liberties that Day 1 studios took in making new mechs and weapons. I would simply say that that is being close minded. But, we are all entitled to an opinion.

MechAssault was a top selling BT game, going platinum in less than a year, and selling over 4 million worldwide through the course of it's life. Few, if any MW games can claim sales stats like that. MA also enjoyed consistent DLC release, AT NO COST. That was a brilliant portion of Day 1 studios genius. They released new maos, new mechs and new game types, at no cost.

Some didn't like the top-down view point style of play, but I did. While I agree it would not work in a simulator game, it was awesome in MA.

If you don't know what you are saying, Basch, you should refrain from posting. You only served to display your ignorance.

MechAssault is a terrible game, and you should be ashamed.

[Red Beard]

Holmes, on 12 December 2011 - 08:10 AM, said:

Mech Assault is to MechWarrior games what Halo and Call of Duty are for the FPS genre. Ruining something great by marketing to the lowest common denominator (hence, most profitable.) PLEASE more simulation and less arcade.

Another gentleman who has jumped onto the "Hate MA" bandwagon. No apparent knowledge of the game or it's mechanics, yet willing to try to get some forum love by crapping on MA. Nice.

If you don't know what you are saying, say nothing.

[Holmes]

Seeing that I've been in love with the BattleTech universe for over 20 years, I am perfectly capable of forming my own opinions based on my experience with the game (it came free with my X-Box.) There is no bandwagon for me to jump on, that game is a plague to BT.

[Red Beard]

Kristov Kerensky, on 11 December 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

MW2, designed, marketed and sold as a BattleTech sim sold over 7 million copies and sales topping over 70 million USD.

Where are you getting these numbers? I am not arguing that they are right or wrong, but until you can supply a link, they have little meaning.

Quote

MicroSoft ended the series with it and shifted over to the new XBox market with MA, which wasn't a great sales topper either.

Again, I really question where you are getting your info. Keep on thing in mind, none of what I am saying has any bearing on your opinion of MA. I don't care how many fellas despise that game. Facts are facts. MechAssault launched XBOX live. XBOX live is a success because MS chose the right game. It could have gone much differently. The N64 flopped, and much of that had to do with the release games. MA became a platinum hit in just under a year. That means that it sold over a million in less than a single year. I would say that's a success. Worldwide it sold over 4 million. Day 1 studio's website used to offer these statistics, but since it has gone out of business, it only carries surface level info. Just because you don't like a game, don't take liberties, and make info up.

Quote

To date, the best selling and most critically acclaimed BTU based games have been the ones that stuck as closely as possible to the TT systems and/or were simulators, not arcade games.

Not true. Again, try to avoid making things up.

Quote

Sadly, MS did it's bit to make MW4 as dumb as possible so they could LCD it to as many people as possible, and ended up killing the franchise.

Your opinion, not facts.

Quote

MW games that are close to the TT system as possible = big money+critical acclaim+rabid fanatic fanbases
MW games that are arcade like and LCD = not big money+critically panned+rapid fanatic fanbases

Wow. Your entire post is replete with bad info. Making things up just to make yourself appear to know what you are talking about will only end up backfiring. I would suggest you consider not doing it.

I didn't enjoy MW2 for the fact that it was too slow and too much simulator. You don't see me bad mouthing it or fabricating bad info to try and bastardize it do you? Fail.

[Mason Grimm]

Children! I have used the carrot, next comes the stick.... capiche?!?

[Red Beard]

Holmes, on 12 December 2011 - 08:23 AM, said:

Seeing that I've been in love with the BattleTech universe for over 20 years, I am perfectly capable of forming my own opinions based on my experience with the game (it came free with my X-Box.) There is no bandwagon for me to jump on, that game is a plague to BT.

That is just your opinion. You may not like to think about it, but how many people were brought into the BTU fold through MA? Who knows. And is it possible for anyone to enjoy both styles? Your harshly negative opinion puts you are the far end of the spectrum. I would bet that there are more people that would like both.