274 replies to this topic

[Tristan Winter]

SlyJJ, on 14 October 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

No two ways about it, the Kodiak is the best assault there is at the moment- clan or IS. Kodiak rushes are an easy way to mop up in CW, sure- but frankly I don't want it nerfed.
Despite the willfully ignorant, its the clan tech that makes it so powerful. Keep it the way it is, and give IS an annihilator. Hopefully that could square a few things up.

So... introduce a problem and then create another problem to deal with the first one? Just leave the other IS mechs as sub-par and make all the IS players buy the Annihilator in order to compete?

Do you work for PGI, by any chance? And did your teachers ever tell you what happened when Australian settlers introduced rabbits to the local ecosystem, and then introduced foxes to deal with the rabbit problem?

[Marauder3D]

KDK-3 needs to lose its quirks, completely. Restrict the torso like the BLR-1G. Then fix the torso on the Battlemaster, Stalker, and Dire Wolf.

Just my .02$

[SlyJJ]

Fair enough Tristan, but what I'm arguing for is moving forward rather than moving backwards. IE I'd rather they improve the quirks of the IS mechs, or introduce another mech that can counter the Kodiak rather than nerf the Kodiak itself.

Lets be honest- lights, mediums, and heavies aren't meant to compete with assaults. Assaults are supposed to be the cream of the crop. Again, I'd rather making other things better (tech, mechs) than nerfing existing ones. From a more practical standpoint, PGI will adopt a strategy much quicker if they can make money on it, no?

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Bud Crue, on 14 October 2016 - 04:04 AM, said:

Yes, yes, it is fun to mock and say how easy it is to deal with Kodiak (learn to twist, don't face tank it, leg it and leave it, etc.) but the reality is that the Kodiak 3 is the "best" mech in the game. This is not a debate. The Kodiak and particularly the Kodiak 3 is heads and shoulders above all other mechs. See the data that Tarogato put together by a review of all the leader board events over the last the last year which bears this out (couldn't resist).

http://mwomercs.com/...rd-event-stats/

https://docs.google....t#gid=873915851

So in this supposedly competitive game where all mechs are of equivalent value (according to Paul and Russ and many competitive players who have made this comment in these forums) how do you explain the Kodiak's off the charts performance? Random chance...or that perhaps it is OP?

I consider the Kodiak to be the perfect blend of speed, durability and fire power; and I think that is hard to argue with.
OP or just closer to perfect than other mechs, either way, something will be done to address this situation. I don't know if it will be a lone nerf to the Kodiak 3 or a mass quirk pass, or what, but PGI must address this situation otherwise no one is going to play...or buy...anything else.

So, Bud...you are saying that I didn't instantly become a better pilot by going Clan last week? That's really disappointing. I thought it was so, because in my KDK-3 I am suddenly able to consistently go 1000+ dmg in my wave 1 mech.. Even when the resistance is the most organized and most prepared for us.

IS has some very fine mechs and in heavies I think the IS stacks up well. The KDK-3 is just something else to drive. You put even decent dakka jager pilot in one of these things and it's something to behold.

In fairness, the KDK-3 does have one major flaw. It can give one a sense of overconfidence. I loved dakka mechs against KDK's as they are big targets and the pilots can be overally focused on securing their kills and not concerned enough about the damage they are taking. It's not a weakness in the mech though, it's a weakness in the piloting. When I was IS I would take that edge though, as it was the only one I saw in that mech. Oh.., there is another minor weakness. Ammo. I ran out last night after doing 1200 dmg with 4 kills in wave 1. I am such a kodiak noob that I didn't realize I needed to drop the engine size, so as to pack more Ammo on. Rookie mistake...I can't wait till I actually get good with this thing, but until then I will have all these kinds of struggles I guess.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

SlyJJ, on 14 October 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

Keep it the way it is, and give IS an annihilator. Hopefully that could square a few things up.

Lol, even if that were a good course of action (meeting power creep with more power creep is bad in this case), the Annihilator wouldn't even compete considering its max engine speed.

SlyJJ, on 14 October 2016 - 07:14 AM, said:

Lets be honest- lights, mediums, and heavies aren't meant to compete with assaults. Assaults are supposed to be the cream of the crop.

Maybe in TT, this being a PvP only game though, that doesn't make for a good game.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 14 October 2016 - 07:37 AM.

[Scout Derek]

/Dying



Yes, we get it. Kodiak needs some adjustment. that can be agreed on. But which direction? everyone has a different opinion of which way to go.

But some of the things people are saying here....



Some are making a mockery of themselves and are acting in debauchery. Pathetic.

[Bud Crue]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 14 October 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

So, Bud...you are saying that I didn't instantly become a better pilot by going Clan last week? That's really disappointing. I thought it was so, because in my KDK-3 I am suddenly able to consistently go 1000+ dmg in my wave 1 mech.. Even when the resistance is the most organized and most prepared for us.

IS has some very fine mechs and in heavies I think the IS stacks up well. The KDK-3 is just something else to drive. You put even decent dakka jager pilot in one of these things and it's something to behold.

In fairness, the KDK-3 does have one major flaw. It can give one a sense of overconfidence. I loved dakka mechs against KDK's as they are big targets and the pilots can be overally focused on securing their kills and not concerned enough about the damage they are taking. It's not a weakness in the mech though, it's a weakness in the piloting. When I was IS I would take that edge though, as it was the only one I saw in that mech. Oh.., there is another minor weakness. Ammo. I ran out last night after doing 1200 dmg with 4 kills in wave 1. I am such a kodiak noob that I didn't realize I needed to drop the engine size, so as to pack more Ammo on. Rookie mistake...I can't wait till I actually get good with this thing, but until then I will have all these kinds of struggles I guess.

"struggles" Heh.

Were you with us last week when...I think it was soulless got 9 kills running his KDK-3 with 2 Uac10 2 Gauss build? Ran out of ammo on the last kill. I swear he made it look so effortless. I believe he mentioned that it was the third time he had such an outcome in that mech and only that mech. Yet, undoubtedly the mech had nothing to do with it. I am sure he could of done the same thing in an Atlas, no problem.

[Graugger]

Kodiaks need a 15% heat reduction quirk for ballistics and a -10% jam chance on UACs across the board IMO.

[Peter2k]

SlyJJ, on 14 October 2016 - 07:14 AM, said:

Assaults are supposed to be the cream of the crop.

They are?
And I thought previous games just didn't come up with a good way to make other classes useful/fun
Ehh
Pillars

SlyJJ, on 14 October 2016 - 07:14 AM, said:

Again, I'd rather making other things better (tech, mechs) than nerfing existing ones.

It is a good assault/mech
Clan tech lots, of tonnage, great customization, and high mounts
Only thing missing is an auto targeting crotch PPC

In all honesty
Loosing any quirks doesn't do anything negative to the kdk-3 in reality
And power creep is a thing

It would be a great mech if it would have only 1 ballistic hardpoint in each side
And be way more in line with low slung dakka 100t mechs

mmm
Hard to say what PGI will come up with

That being said
Endlessly double tapping using a dual uac5 dual uac10 kdk-3 on the PTS gets you shut down really fast last time I checked

------
The Kodiak could loose it's quirks tomorrow and aside from some bear lovers, and a forum warrior here n there, people would not even notice

But PGI is not going to touch anything until ED is either live or thrown out
They're always acting like changing a few values here n there are some major undertakings (like lbx pellet damage)

Graugger, on 14 October 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

Kodiaks need a 15% heat reduction quirk for ballistics and a -10% jam chance on UACs across the board IMO.

Love it
Also a +50% ammo quirk, +100% seismic range (pesky lights always sneeking) and a get out of jail free card
You know this thread is about the kdk-3
No one is arguing about the other variants that you have a hard time to see ingame

Edited by Peter2k, 14 October 2016 - 07:56 AM.

[Mystere]

TWIAFU, on 14 October 2016 - 04:03 AM, said:

Same ole story, pugtard got killed by a 'mech, that 'mech is p2w, OP, and must be nerf'd.

As we all know for a fact, MWO is filled with nothing but the best pilots ever so it always something else's fault.

Well, some people actually believe they are Mechwarriror gods, and gods allegedly cannot be killed.

[adamts01]

Attank, on 14 October 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

I know that, and that is way i say i "think" is the best assault.
But this is a forum, a gaming one, so reading everything and be open minded cannot be linked about fanboys and haters replies.

.......

Attank, on 14 October 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

On a serious note, i dunno if they are OP, or unbalanced, or need rework.
One can simply say that actually is by far the best assault around (like it was for the highlander before double-nerf).
And it is not a personal opinion.
99% of the Assault mechs used in actual world Tournaments are KDK3.

But you didn't say "think." It sounds like you know all the facts, but you just won't connect the dots.

And what did I say to make you think I'm a fanboy or hater? I try to look at balancing in a logical manner, and what I read from you was anything but. There's a big difference between being open minded and easily swayed. And at this point I just don't see how anyone can still justify a single buff on the KDK3.

[Scout Derek]

Mystere, on 14 October 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Well, some people actually believe they are Mechwarriror gods, and gods allegedly cannot be killed.

some are actually good shots and people call hacks all the time on them. Quite hilarious actually.

[Mystere]

Maqi, on 14 October 2016 - 05:12 AM, said:

yeah because the most dangerous components of a kodiak 3 are totally the legs and the arms.
[Redacted]

This thread has no future ... gleefully reported.

Edited by draiocht, 18 October 2016 - 01:25 AM.
Quote Clean-Up

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Bud Crue, on 14 October 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

"struggles" Heh.

Were you with us last week when...I think it was soulless got 9 kills running his KDK-3 with 2 Uac10 2 Gauss build? Ran out of ammo on the last kill. I swear he made it look so effortless. I believe he mentioned that it was the third time he had such an outcome in that mech and only that mech. Yet, undoubtedly the mech had nothing to do with it. I am sure he could of done the same thing in an Atlas, no problem.

Yep. #kodiaknoobproblems... but, seriously I don't even have the thing mastered as I recently got it. I am really just figuring out how to drive it. It's a ridiculous killing machine.

I was FRR last week (for nearly all of phase 3 actually), but only dropped FW 1 day, so I think I missed that one. That is crazy though.... might need to try that build. I am running the "pathetically underpowered" 2xuac10, 2xuac5 version. Nothing can consistently do what the KDK-3 does. Which is why it dominates QP event leaderboards. I have had massive rounds in battlemaster or Black knight laser vomit, but not so consistently and not while I am really just learning the chassis. I just keep repeating to myself (while I am driving it) that "this is totally not broken". It just makes me feel better about my skill level...

[Ziogualty]

adamts01, on 14 October 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

.......

But you didn't say "think." It sounds like you know all the facts, but you just won't connect the dots.

And what did I say to make you think I'm a fanboy or hater? I try to look at balancing in a logical manner, and what I read from you was anything but. There's a big difference between being open minded and easily swayed. And at this point I just don't see how anyone can still justify a single buff on the KDK3.

What it sounds to you is yours to hold on, not mine.
And the part about fanboys was a different answer to a different person about a different argument.
Justify buffs?
I'm lost. But it is fine this way.
Wish you best luck out there in the Battlefields!
Attank Out.

[Widowmaker1981]

PGI should have put the 3rd and 4th ballistic hardpoints below the first two, not above (because yes, they were always going to inflate hardpoints carrying LBX20s over hardpoints carrying ERMLs). If they had done that, the Stone Rhino wouldn't have been obsolete before it was released, since it would obviously end up with roof mounted 4-6 ballistic points - there would be some balance between the two mechs, with the Kodiak having better geometry (shield arms, humanoid), a higher engine cap and better cockpit location, and the Rhino having the high mount weapons.. as it is now, why bother with the Rhino at all? Which is a shame for me, because it is (imo) the best looking mech in all of BT.

However, people need to admit that there is exactly zero chance of PGI removing or moving hardpoints on a released mech. never going to happen. So we need to look at other solutions - reducing its torso twist arc is a good start, as is removing its CT structure quirk, but i do NOT believe in negative weapon or agility quirks, so if that is not enough, the quirks on other mechs have to be improved to reach parity.

I don't think its worth bring the Dire into this, because the Omnimech system has always been an extreme nerf compared to Battlemech customisation, and as soon as PGI started releasing Clan tech battlemechs, it was obvious that most Omnis would eventually end up obsolete without significant quirks or a redesign of the Omnimech system to be less harsh in some way. It worked while Clan only had Omnis, as a drawback to clan tech, but that argument doesn't hold up anymore.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 14 October 2016 - 08:45 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Widowmaker1981, on 14 October 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

If they had done that, the Stone Rhino wouldn't have been obsolete before it was released

Speaking of the Rhino, if they released a variant that was like the Stone Rhino 2, there may actually be competition for the Kodiak because it can do 2 Gauss/2 ERPPC solely in the torsos and with JJs (but can't go as fast as the Kodiak).

[Gas Guzzler]

Widowmaker1981, on 14 October 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

It worked while Clan only had Omnis, as a drawback to clan tech, but that argument doesn't hold up anymore.

Timber and Night Gyr are hanging on!

[El Bandito]

PyckenZot, on 14 October 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

I perfectly understand. But still dissagree with the course of action.

I'm sure we all have differing opinions and that's fine. I wish to conclude the debate by posting up this picture, where one of the best comp teams in the championship had chosen to focus the CT of KDK-3, instead of the ST. I presume that such "elite players" should already know the most effective way to deal with the KDK-3.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 October 2016 - 09:23 AM.

[PyckenZot]

To conclude I would then like to state I prefer not to compare a random collection of apples with a handpicked set of golden eggs .