102 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

Excessive Paranoia, on 25 October 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

I honestly have no idea what your post was even supposed to mean... Are you saying that all light mechs are either Urbies or Myst Lynx?



I would point out that perceived value is a very subjective thing. I don't perceive enough value in medium, heavy, or assault packs anymore to justify spending real money on them, while at the same time, I personally would happily pay regular mech pack prices (including the 3+2+1 splits for standard / reinforcements / hero) for one off light mech packs. I understand that I'm in the minority here, but that doesn't mean I'm the only one who'd be willing to pay normal prices for light mechs.



Then don't buy it.

Yeah I know perceived value is subjective & artificial even. It's just due to how mechs have been priced most players don't want to pay the same amount for a light pack as they would for a heavy or assault even though they all take an equal amount of time & effort, etc.

[GreyNovember]

Excessive Paranoia, on 25 October 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

I honestly have no idea what your post was even supposed to mean... Are you saying that all light mechs are either Urbies or Myst Lynx?

I'm saying that if they lack the given criteria, there's really no point.

• At least 5E/3M/6B for offensive ability.
  
• If not that, then let it run faster than 150.
  
• if not THAT, then does it at least have ECM?

A combination of E/B/M is ineffecient, but workable if the numbers sync up, if unimpressive. (4E/2M , 4E/4B).

A mech that has around 4E and has ECM, but is slower than 150 is the Myst Lynx.

A mech that doesn't run very fast, has 4E, and has no ECM is the Urbie.

This is what I'm getting at.

[Excessive Paranoia]

TheArisen, on 25 October 2016 - 02:45 AM, said:

Yeah I know perceived value is subjective & artificial even. It's just due to how mechs have been priced most players don't want to pay the same amount for a light pack as they would for a heavy or assault even though they all take an equal amount of time & effort, etc.

What I find funny about this, though, is that they don't want to pay the same price for a 35T light mech as they would for an assault, but they'll happily pay the same price for a 40T medium as that assault. Seems like questionable logic to me.

[GreyNovember]

Excessive Paranoia, on 25 October 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

What I find funny about this, though, is that they don't want to pay the same price for a 35T light mech as they would for an assault, but they'll happily pay the same price for a 40T medium as that assault. Seems like questionable logic to me.

The difference in value between a Kodiak and a Piranha is easily measurable.

Logic doesn't factor into a purchase fueled by emotion. Someone looking at a Pheonix Hawk for example, is either:

• fully aware that the mech is suboptimal in several ways, but wants it anyway, because emotion.
  
• blissfully deludedly fantasizing about wrecking people, and are unpleasantly surprised when they play it.

[LordNothing]

il almost completely done with light mechs. there are only like 5 variants i haven't mastered yet, and im working on 2 of those.

[TheArisen]

Excessive Paranoia, on 25 October 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

What I find funny about this, though, is that they don't want to pay the same price for a 35T light mech as they would for an assault, but they'll happily pay the same price for a 40T medium as that assault. Seems like questionable logic to me.

Well the Viper filled a hole in the clan tonnage lineup & the Phawk is an unseen which means hefty nostalgia. There's always something to prop it up.

[Battlemaster56]

RestosIII, on 24 October 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

'talking about wanting new lights, barely any mention of the Fire Moth'



Personally, I would love the Piranha just because it is a Clan Diamond Shark mech, but... Fire Moth, Flea, Firefly, and the Owens are all mechs I loved in previous titles and I would actually pilot despite being terrible with light mechs.

DO I HEAR EUROBEAT IN THE DISTSANCE

[Excessive Paranoia]

GreyNovember, on 25 October 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

I'm saying that if they lack the given criteria, there's really no point.

• At least 5E/3M/6B for offensive ability.
  
• If not that, then let it run faster than 150.
  
• if not THAT, then does it at least have ECM?

A combination of E/B/M is ineffecient, but workable if the numbers sync up, if unimpressive. (4E/2M , 4E/4B).


A mech that has around 4E and has ECM, but is slower than 150 is the Myst Lynx.

A mech that doesn't run very fast, has 4E, and has no ECM is the Urbie.

This is what I'm getting at.

From a certain perspective, that is a fair point, however, with quirks even similar mechs can be molded to fill differing roles. Also, you don't have to look at each mech only based on where it will fit in the meta or comp lineups. Sometimes people just want something different to play. I think the best example of this is the black knight vs the grasshopper... on paper they are almost interchangeable, yet some like one and some the other.

Edited by Excessive Paranoia, 25 October 2016 - 04:41 AM.

[GreyNovember]

Excessive Paranoia, on 25 October 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

From a certain perspective, that is a fair point, however, with quirks even similar mechs can be molded to fill differing roles. Also, you don't have to look at each mech only based on where it will fit in the meta or comp lineups. Sometimes people just want something different to play. I think the best example of this is the black knight vs the grasshopper... on paper they are almost interchangeable, yet some like one and some the other.

A Quirk dependent mech gets hit by the dartboard of balance and dies. There's no solid platform to build on.

The Black Knight and Grasshopper are bad examples of this. Regardless of what Quirks they get, they have a reliable engine size, and reliable firepower. You can still use them as a 70/75 ton energy club.

A light has more stringent requirements. Wolfhound vs Firestarter vs Panther. One of these mechs is objectively superior quirkless.

Imagine if the Spider was released after the Arctic Cheetah.

I don't doubt people would buy it because they "want something different", or "love the mech". I do however, wish to stress that the mechs bought for this reason, are not worth buying if you want something that will perform.

[ice trey]

Bombast, on 23 October 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

It's inevitable. You can't ask for a mech, or even ask what mech everyone else wants, without the 'Fix the Game' brigade running rampant.

Hey man... Sometimes, you just want to put out the fire before you slap on a coat of paint.

[Requiemking]

I honestly only want three things in the near future, and only one of them is a mech.

1. Unnerf JJs (Poll on the subject can be found here:http://mwomercs.com/...age__mode__show.)

2. Buff non-ACH, non-LCT Light mechs.

3. Add Howler/ Tiburon

So, the reason I put the mech like that is because I really could care less which one we get. Tiburon is a nice mech, but the Howler is the microlurmer. Also has a variant with an ERPPC.

[MeiSooHaityu]

A Wasp and/or Stinger would be nice for HBS's Battletech. Heck, I'd be happy if PGI added any mech that can be used for that game . It wouldn't make release even if PGI added it tomorrow, but there is always DLC expansions or a sequel.

[martian]

Requiemking, on 25 October 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

3. Add Howler/ Tiburon

So, the reason I put the mech like that is because I really could care less which one we get. Tiburon is a nice mech, but the Howler is the microlurmer. Also has a variant with an ERPPC.

Howler - no problem. However, Tiburon is a Dark Age 'Mech while we are in the Clan Invasion era. The difference is about five decades.

[Requiemking]

martian, on 25 October 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

Howler - no problem. However, Tiburon is a Dark Age 'Mech while we are in the Clan Invasion era. The difference is about five decades.

Fair point. I really like the Howler. Nobody expects a 20 tonner to be able to lurm them to death.

[Pronotum]

To keep things short.

Wasp.

20 ton IS light with JJs? Yes, please.

[Excessive Paranoia]

GreyNovember, on 25 October 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

A Quirk dependent mech gets hit by the dartboard of balance and dies. There's no solid platform to build on.

The Black Knight and Grasshopper are bad examples of this. Regardless of what Quirks they get, they have a reliable engine size, and reliable firepower. You can still use them as a 70/75 ton energy club.

A light has more stringent requirements. Wolfhound vs Firestarter vs Panther. One of these mechs is objectively superior quirkless.

Imagine if the Spider was released after the Arctic Cheetah.

I don't doubt people would buy it because they "want something different", or "love the mech". I do however, wish to stress that the mechs bought for this reason, are not worth buying if you want something that will perform.

And yet, there are plenty of people who can use any of the three lights you described as a 35 ton energy club very effectively. On paper one might be better than the others, but in function, that superiority goes only as far as the individual player believes it to be. I have all three, and all three perform for me just fine.

ice trey, on 25 October 2016 - 05:54 AM, said:

Hey man... Sometimes, you just want to put out the fire before you slap on a coat of paint.

You, know, I can't blame people for wanting to fix the game before adding more mechs / paying more money, but we cannot forget that PGI is a business and their business model is to sell us mech packs to pay their bills and hopefully get some of the game fixes along the way. While I agree that it would be much better for everyone if they devoted more staff towards the fixing, we are in the situation that we are in, and the best we can hope for is the work within its structure to get what we want. That is why I present the topic as such: "Here is what I want to buy, please make it for me to buy". If PGI makes some light mech packs, I'll buy them, giving them more money to work on fixing the game. Attempting to force the fixes without offering money in the balance will never happen because it ignores the basic fact that PGI need to pay the people who are doing the fixing.

Pronotum, on 25 October 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

To keep things short.

Wasp.

20 ton IS light with JJs? Yes, please.

I only hope they can work their unseen magic with these lights... I've wanted the wasp / stinger / valkyrie triplet for years...

Edited by Excessive Paranoia, 25 October 2016 - 03:47 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Yeah I have to agree. Sure it won't sell as many mech packs because lets face it, most people don't like to play lights (and it is not because they suck by the way). However, I am getting tired of seeing mostly heavy and assault mechs.

Also if they don't think someone will jump on a light mech because of the value of the pack, they could....<glup> ....reduce the pack price to $15 for basic, $30 for collectors and make the reinforcements and hero $10 each.

Or they could just beef up what the package contains as far as goodies. Maybe add some MC to the pack or colors or give out a permanent camo pattern for all the mechs or some such.

Basically if you throw enough value at a light mech pack, people will by it just as easily as they would an Assault mech pack.

[Excessive Paranoia]

Viktor Drake, on 25 October 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

Yeah I have to agree. Sure it won't sell as many mech packs because lets face it, most people don't like to play lights (and it is not because they suck by the way). However, I am getting tired of seeing mostly heavy and assault mechs.

Also if they don't think someone will jump on a light mech because of the value of the pack, they could....<glup> ....reduce the pack price to $15 for basic, $30 for collectors and make the reinforcements and hero $10 each.

Or they could just beef up what the package contains as far as goodies. Maybe add some MC to the pack or colors or give out a permanent camo pattern for all the mechs or some such.

Basically if you throw enough value at a light mech pack, people will by it just as easily as they would an Assault mech pack.

Or perhaps sell two mechs in one pack for a $35 / $25 / $25 (standard + reinforcements + hero), or $60 for the collectors.

I will say, however, that there are probably more than a few people like me who would pay standard prices for light mechs.

Edited by Excessive Paranoia, 25 October 2016 - 07:23 PM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Happy to give money to PGI in this state which has been basically the same some could argue worse as 4 years ago? And for friggin redundant mechs no less?

....Okay!

[GreyNovember]

Excessive Paranoia, on 25 October 2016 - 03:45 PM, said:

And yet, there are plenty of people who can use any of the three lights you described as a 35 ton energy club very effectively. On paper one might be better than the others, but in function, that superiority goes only as far as the individual player believes it to be. I have all three, and all three perform for me just fine.

I do not doubt you can make the mechs work. You can make a 2E Spider work if you play to it's strengths ( Never fight fair, pick off damaged targets ) but this doesn't make the mech good in the MWO standard. Barring connection or skill differences, the 2E spider loses to pretty much everything else in a vaccum 1v1.

Semantics issue; to use a light mech as a club is to use it as a damage vomit machine. A light is much more. Repeated scalpel than it is a blunt object; Jenner IIC nonwithstanding. ( Also, y'know, one of the better lights. )

Once more. Neither your nor my perspective on new light mechs is better than the other.

However when asking for a worse Locust because reasons, or two basically identical 20 tonner IS lights that go even SLOWER than the flea, the argument " I want a different experience " is basically " I want to pay for even harder mode, because I know this mech is objectively inferior, but I don't care, because reasons. "

Alternately, " I know this mech is objectively inferior, but quirks will save the day! ", because that's always a reliable horse to ride on and never backfired ever.