301 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Almond Brown, on 27 October 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

And who knew that "everyone", apparently, drives their Gargoyle C with its Lore lore load-out, all the time.... LOL

That's not the point. The point is that it nerfs mediocre mixed builds while largely leaving ballistic boating builds untouched and only being a slight annoyance to PPFLD builds, not even bothering others, like the HBK-IIC and the Summoner 2xERPPC builds.

[Duke Nedo]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2016 - 07:16 AM, said:

Because we like variety and balance? Many people are only seeing what they WANT to see about Energy Draw and ignoring it's inherent issues just because it's something different.

Sorry if I argue against you all the time in this thread, mostly I do agree with you.

To me ED is still an open book, that means that there is nothing inherent with it. At all. It doesn't need to make Energy directly proportional to Damage like their starting point was. That's a bad idea I totally agree. To me the concept does hold potential still, but not as sole solution to "big alphas". Instead more like a more consistent and logical replacement for GH1.

Imagine for example that ED only weakly affects Ballistics. Gauss would be one big offender with its 15 damage per heat, so say that using ED you would allow Gauss to keep the charge as long as you want, but it would consume energy while charging. One could imagine weapons like PPCs consume energy only when recharging instead of when the flash is released. Both kind of makes sense if they can be balanced. UACs would need some additional layer like recoil or convergence tweaks. No final solutions, I just see potential being thrown away here.

I am also very interested in using the ED-capacity to buff some weaker chassi vs stronger ones in the same weight class, as well as balancing the classes vs each other.

[Deathlike]

Almond Brown, on 27 October 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

And who knew that "everyone", apparently, drives their Gargoyle C with its Lore lore load-out, all the time.... LOL

Dumb question, but why do you comment on balance in a game that you haven't played in a while?

[Hunka Junk]

Lone Wanderer, on 27 October 2016 - 05:21 AM, said:

I don't get all the anime references in the replies to this post at all. Pretty weird.
And I live in Japan.




So...ED is delayed then?

ED has been sold to a Japanese macross outfit.

It was actually traded for the new skill tree.

[Novakaine]

Well this is some complete and utter "BS".
Game balance by whines is just stupid.
In this case un nerf the IS uac's then.
At least we can get our spitballs to fight with.
All my uac's builds are near useless now.

[AphexTwin11]

ED is a terrible idea, the only people upset with GH are the mouth-breathers that can't comprehend what "heat penalty" means. Get over it. There are 1,000 other things regarding weaponry and heat scale that could use discussion, not some arbitrary energy-draw mechanism that adds zero value to the game which people constantly QQ about. Stop the incessant whining about everything - for a playerbase as old as MWO's is, it's ridiculous how much whine is spewed day in and day out. ED is PGI catering to whiners, period.

ED fanbois rekt gg git gud m8 pwned

Also, "LRMing like a boss" is an oxymoron and should be a phrase used by noone, ever.

Edited by AphexTwin11, 27 October 2016 - 08:19 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Yeah, now I'm at home. Here is Starsiege. Yeah, this game was crappy. Reviewers were telling us, that "Dynamix has done everything for this game, but...forgotten to make game itself". But at the same time this game had better idea, design and immersion, than MechWarrior. This game actually leaded me to MechWarrior - MW3 was released at almost the same time, as I remember.

[Hunka Junk]

I can't find it now, but is it right that they're going to roll out "things that they learned from the PTS" in Nov and Dec?

That sounds like freshly unplaytested stuff!

Aw hells yes.

[Gas Guzzler]

Novakaine, on 27 October 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

Game balance by whines is just stupid.

Agreed, that's why I'm glad ED is going to stay away for a while. It's literally a mechanic that was brought on by whining.

[Novakaine]

ED is a good idea.
But the usual Twitter whine fest killed it.
And that is exactly what happened.
Well played Twitter boys well played.

[Gas Guzzler]

MrMadguy, on 27 October 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Yeah, now I'm at home. Here is Starsiege. Yeah, this game was crappy. Reviewers were telling us, that "Dynamix has done everything for this game, but...forgotten to make game itself". But at the same time this game had better idea, design and immersion, than MechWarrior. This game actually leaded me to MechWarrior - MW3 was released at almost the same time, as I remember.

What mechanic did MW3 use to limit alpha/burst DPS? Or did you just choose not to use alphas or burst DPS because you felt more like a "real MechWarrior" when you fired your weapons on chain fire or in small groups?

Novakaine, on 27 October 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

ED is a good idea.
But the usual Twitter whine fest killed it.
And that is exactly what happened.
Well played Twitter boys well played.

How is it a good idea? You have seen the arguments against it, use your brain and come up with something other than "Anything to nerf the laser vomit meta" or "ED was a good idea".

Did you stop to consider that maybe since your in the minority you might be missing some details?

[Cy Mitchell]

Mystere, on 27 October 2016 - 07:00 AM, said:

I say the culprits for low TTK are focus firing (which is fine) and automatic near-instant pinpoint convergence. The latter really needs to be taken care of.

I do not disagree with what you say but have you watched any of the 1v1 matches that are streamed? Once contact is made no encounter last much more than a minute and most end in under 30 seconds. That hardly feels like two giant armored war machines fighting. There is no focus fire in these cases but there is pinpoint convergence. Unfortunately, it seems that due to proper hit registration (or something) PGI is not able program anything other than a single convergence point.

I would love to see only unlocked arm weapons converge on a single point and fixed torso mounted weapons all fire in parellel paths based on their mounting points. It certainly would give arm mounted weapons an advantage which would justify the risk of putting the weapons there and losing them when an arm is shot off.

I do not see that happening though.

Ghost Heat does a decent job of keeping lasers under control while still keeping lasers strong. It just does not control dakka or Gauss very well. So now dakka and Gauss/PPC have become the thing. Maybe some of the data they have gathered from the PTS testing will help them find a solution. Russ indicated that some of the changes that are coming in November and December are the result of the data gathered in the PTS test so some positive changes may come out of the ED test yet.

Edited by Rampage, 27 October 2016 - 09:10 AM.

[Hunka Junk]

Novakaine, on 27 October 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

ED is a good idea.
But the usual Twitter whine fest killed it.
And that is exactly what happened.
Well played Twitter boys well played.

You can claim whatever killed it.

73-26

Most of the community wanted it dead.

[cazidin]

Bud Crue, on 27 October 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

Energy Draw was just a different version of ghost heat...
...but with hotter ac5s, SRMs that spread more, LRMs that could heat you up as quick as any energy build, LPLs that did less damage, where 4 clan ermls triggerd it, etc. So yea foks are happy because the current ghost heat, is frankly more or less functional and at least predictable when compared to the new ghost heat that is ED

Energy Draw wasn't responsible for SRMs that spread more, LRMs that heat you up more quickly, LPLs that deal less damage, etc. That's all on PGI - and knowing PGI, we could very well see those changes, just without ED.

Energy Draw, just like Info War, had potential with just a few adjustments to the penalties, and fewer adjustments to weapon stats.

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2016 - 07:16 AM, said:

Because we like variety and balance? Many people are only seeing what they WANT to see about Energy Draw and ignoring it's inherent issues just because it's something different.

Lol. You've been against this from day 1, and I've been for this from day 1. I like how we've maintained this difference of opinion for so long but the goal of Energy Draw was, at least from day 1, to destroy high energy alpha builds - which I think we both agree a proper heat scale would accomplish better but I don't know if PGI can do that. Like I said, it just needed a few more adjustments to its heat penalties and fewer to weapon stats.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

AphexTwin11, on 27 October 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

ED fanbois rekt gg git gud m8 pwned

Also, "LRMing like a boss" is an oxymoron and should be a phrase used by noone, ever.

All of this from an account with 166 games played this season and only 95 kills.... at a 0.77 K/D.....all in heavy mechs no less.

I think you should turn that "git gud" back on yourself before talking trash.

[Novakaine]

And that's why we can't have nice things.

[DaZur]

Hunka Junk, on 27 October 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

You can claim whatever killed it.

73-26

Most of the community forum warriors wanted it dead.

Fixed that for ya.

Believe it or not... There's actually more players who never visit this forum than the number than do.

You got a sampling from a very vocal minority. I wouldn't cling to those numbers so tightly.

Edited by DaZur, 27 October 2016 - 09:07 AM.

[Xmith]

MrMadguy, on 27 October 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Yeah, now I'm at home. Here is Starsiege. Yeah, this game was crappy. Reviewers were telling us, that "Dynamix has done everything for this game, but...forgotten to make game itself". But at the same time this game had better idea, design and immersion, than MechWarrior. This game actually leaded me to MechWarrior - MW3 was released at almost the same time, as I remember.

I walked down the same road. Starsiege was my first stompy robot game 17 years ago.

[xe N on]

Mcgral18, on 26 October 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

All ED does it kill off any mixing of weapons

Could you elaborate this?

Mixing weapon currently only has one single purpose: to avoid ghost heat.

Look at the lore build of the Summoner. LBX, ERPPC, LRMs. The original idea is to mix weapons is to have access to different weapon systems for different situations.

Nobody would mix that in MWO. Because in MWO you mix only weapons that stack up your pinpoint alpha or your dakka.

You are of course right, that with ED you could run a mono build with 3 LPL with 30 damage while you currently preferably run e.g. 1 AC10 or Gauss and 2 LPL for the same damage or even higher to avoid ghost heat.

But, why should you shouldn't run a 3 LPL laser build? Or a 8 medium laser build? Because of 1 button smashing? That's done the same way with Gauss or AC10. There are even macros around to release Gauss and Laser at the same time. And, in the end, the ACs runs your build cooler on the costs of weight. So, ghost heat highly favors heavier mechs that can field in heavier weapons in mix with light weapons to avoid ghost heat.

If in ED you have no reason to mix weapons it is not the fault of ED. And, on the other side, if ghost heat allows you to bypass it's intention by simply choosing a different class of weapons it is not the fault of ghost heat. It is the fault of failed weapon balance where you can replace a AC or Gauss against a Laser and only find out minor difference in purpose and using.

Edited by xe N on, 27 October 2016 - 09:16 AM.

[Novakaine]

AphexTwin11, on 27 October 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

ED is a terrible idea, the only people upset with GH are the mouth-breathers that can't comprehend what "heat penalty" means. Get over it. There are 1,000 other things regarding weaponry and heat scale that could use discussion, not some arbitrary energy-draw mechanism that adds zero value to the game which people constantly QQ about. Stop the incessant whining about everything - for a playerbase as old as MWO's is, it's ridiculous how much whine is spewed day in and day out. ED is PGI catering to whiners, period.

ED fanbois rekt gg git gud m8 pwned

Also, "LRMing like a boss" is an oxymoron and should be a phrase used by noone, ever.

You're just mad because you have creativity of a small rock and as all Clanners you smell funny.