62 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

Pariah Devalis, on 14 November 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

Glad to know this transcends factions.

Thats almost comforting to know right lol at least you guys dont get ravens. good crows dont have just streaks though, they get the 6e arms with 3 streak, those are pretty good at staying cold and facing anything.

Pariah Devalis, on 14 November 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

When I tell puggies to stick close and aim for legs, I'm absolutely flabbergasted how often I will see them doing body shots off a Centurion or Crab

Uh, i have a pretty good idea why. They lose the game with near 400 damage and think theyve done better than the guy who did 200 but got a solo with 2 kmdd in those 200s. Remember, theres this school of "only damage matters" thats been going on since the game went live.

[Ziogualty]

Crabs are not bad in scouting. For sure a full lance of crabs is not the best choice, but they are tanky, underestimated, and 5mp laser is still decent focused damage.
Of course you need a coordinated lance, but i really can't figure out what IS mechs are game changers if you drop with pugs in scouting.

Edited by Attank, 14 November 2016 - 03:03 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

DAYLEET, on 14 November 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

Thats almost comforting to know right lol at least you guys dont get ravens. good crows dont have just streaks though, they get the 6e arms with 3 streak, those are pretty good at staying cold and facing anything.


Uh, i have a pretty good idea why. They lose the game with near 400 damage and think theyve done better than the guy who did 200 but got a solo with 2 kmdd in those 200s. Remember, theres this school of "only damage matters" thats been going on since the game went live.

I've actually argued with a guy piloting a streakcrow about that. I killed three of the four enemy mechs, solo kills, with 300 damage, and he was boasting about how he did so much better because he managed to deal 450 damage and skife a last hit on the last medium that was geting torn into by myself and the other two pilots. Like.. the very concept of "application of damage is more important than damage itself" is impossible for them to grasp. I can't even.... I feel like trying to understand such horrible logic would give me brain damage.

[TercieI]

Pariah Devalis, on 14 November 2016 - 03:05 PM, said:

I've actually argued with a guy piloting a streakcrow about that. I killed three of the four enemy mechs, solo kills, with 300 damage, and he was boasting about how he did so much better because he managed to deal 450 damage and skife a last hit on the last medium that was geting torn into by myself and the other two pilots. Like.. the very concept of "application of damage is more important than damage itself" is impossible for them to grasp. I can't even.... I feel like trying to understand such horrible logic would give me brain damage.

But mah match score mamma!

[Lightfoot]

Crab with 2 AMS. AMS on all mechs to create a buffer.

[Nighthawk513]

Massed AMS will not save you from streakcrows.
Trust me, we tried that in Clan V Clan fights with 3 AMS novas with overload. Literally the best AMS platform in the game with the 30% fire rate quirk. All 4 in close formation blunted the DPS of the ONE enemy streakcrow by about 50% at 200 meters. With 2 AMS max and heavier ammo with fewer AMS quirks, I doubt IS would be anywhere near as good at that tactic. Especially when their other option is to take a tanky griffin and be good against not only the streaks, but be ably to withstand the punishment of all the other mechs that could show up as well.

[Deathlike]

TercieI, on 14 November 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

What I've learned from this event: CWFPWhatever is so dead that they can't even bribe people to play it.

Welcome to the realization that should've been made 6+ months ago.

#thanksRuss

[BearFlag]

nehebkau, on 14 November 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

...

Finally a post that makes sense and sticks to the topic.
----

After 1600 Scout matches and probably as many forum posts by experts, the one thing I've learned is that most people talking about Scout ...

OP, you are right about the 50-55 ton mechs and those are the go-to weight classes in Scout for damage output. Objectively, the Griffin, Kintaro, Centy or Crab are not a straight-up match for the Crow and Nova. With even pilots the Clan mech will win most of the time (and should be ashamed if it doesn't). So, ironically, the git-good mantra has an element of truth in that if you want to beat a Crow with a Griffin, you need to pilot your mech better than he pilots his. Of course, pure one-on-ones are not real common even in Scout, so the advice about teamwork is certainly true.

Aside from the obvious weapons' performance and loadout potentials, imbalance in the mode is evidenced by win/loss ratios, Clan dominance of now two events and end-of-match damage output. I've lost track of the number of IS pilots trying Scout and quitting in disgust. Outside of events, the empty queues show it. I dunno. Two possibilities. Players just don't like Scout mode or imbalance has chased them off. I love Scout and suspect the latter is origin of empty queues. But even with numbers in front of them, PGI allows balance to languish for months.

Nehebkau's idea of a 45 ton limit is a good one. It might just give some breathing room (ie TTK) for lighter mechs to make an appearance. It would drop the alpha horizon to where Cicada's and BJ's would be more competitive. Alternatively, you might allow IS 60 tonners and/or disallow Clan 55 tonners. But Nehebkau's idea is definitely more "Scouty".

Edited by BearFlag, 14 November 2016 - 09:55 PM.

[Spheroid]

@Nighthawk: Four Crab-27s will definitely win against four Streakcrows if the umbrella is tight. I can either zombie them to death or use a XL to control the range. Doesn't matter, I can dissipate a lot of heat and tank like a beast.

You don't see dual AMS Crabs because Novas and Splatcrows emerged as the dominant meta.

I see you are Clan currently we could test your theory in actual combat sometime this week.

[Jingseng]

Spheroid, on 14 November 2016 - 10:20 PM, said:

@Nighthawk: Four Crab-27s will definitely win against four Streakcrows if the umbrella is tight. I can either zombie them to death or use a XL to control the range. Doesn't matter, I can dissipate a lot of heat and tank like a beast.

You don't see dual AMS Crabs because Novas and Splatcrows emerged as the dominant meta.

I see you are Clan currently we could test your theory in actual combat sometime this week.

the crows are at all coordinated (whether by voice, or instinct) - no.

Because those ams will ALL fire at the first salvo of missiles.... allowing all subsequent salvos fired just slightly later to get through. In short, the ams are not coordinated for coverage, they are overlap.

[Spheroid]

Prove it in combat. What assumptions are you making? I am not going to assume that the Crab will be vaporized from the combined first alpha from the four crows. Distribute the damage to the various body segments and adjust for damage reduction. Still instakill?

Additionally assuming simultaneous alpha is a fallacy, there will invariably be some delay in the salvoes reaching their target based on positional difference.

You may or may have not seriously damaged the focused Crab, but now you have incurred a fair amount of heat and the endurance battle begins. I am rocking 15-17 DHS and coolshot in all four Crabs.

Edited by Spheroid, 14 November 2016 - 10:41 PM.

[STEF_]

I jumped between clan and IS, and.....maybe it's been a concidence, but while clanners broght nova and crow (very few streakcrow), I saw a looooooooooot of IS scrubs bringing lrm or erLL.... in scout.

I would like to know how EL Bandito is going to balance this

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 14 November 2016 - 10:58 PM.

[STEF_]

DAYLEET, on 14 November 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

Thats almost comforting to know right lol at least you guys dont get ravens. good crows dont have just streaks though, they get the 6e arms with 3 streak,

Nope.
Good crow have 6E and 3 artemis 6

[Appogee]

I did the event as both Clan (Nova) and IS (Crab).

Clan was a lot easier, frankly. Even when I leveled a Viper, which is sub-optimal for the team, we still won the great majority of matches against the IS.

[Duke Nedo]

Appogee, on 14 November 2016 - 11:04 PM, said:

I did the event as both Clan (Nova) and IS (Crab).

Clan was a lot easier, frankly. Even when I leveled a Viper, which is sub-optimal for the team, we still won the great majority of matches against the IS.

Aye, and during the two days that I bothered to look at the CW-map the clans won 97-100% of the scouting matches, meaning that Clans had the longtom every single invasion match. Not strange that IS-players stopped queuing up...

Makes you wonder, perhaps the CW-failure is partly a balance failure...? In QP it doesn't really matter much since there will be KDK, NGR, TBR, SCR, HBK-IIc,EBJ and ACH more or less evenly distributed between both teams. At least in my opinion CW was almost a little enjoyable in March/April-ish when we had pretty good faction balance.

[MacClearly]

meteorol, on 14 November 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

It taught me IS puggels are still dropping with mechs like 2x PPC panters and lrm shadowhawks and then cry about OP clanmechs when they get curbstomped in scouting.

Have run across ppc myst linx and a guass nova today...

[TWIAFU]

Duke Nedo, on 14 November 2016 - 11:26 PM, said:

Aye, and during the two days that I bothered to look at the CW-map the clans won 97-100% of the scouting matches, meaning that Clans had the longtom every single invasion match. Not strange that IS-players stopped queuing up...

Makes you wonder, perhaps the CW-failure is partly a balance failure...? In QP it doesn't really matter much since there will be KDK, NGR, TBR, SCR, HBK-IIc,EBJ and ACH more or less evenly distributed between both teams. At least in my opinion CW was almost a little enjoyable in March/April-ish when we had pretty good faction balance.

It is a failure due to QP solo mentality in a Group/Teamwork centric game mode for starters. It was doomed to fail the moment solo's were allowed to drop solo into a group/teamwork focused mode.

Maybe it is time to remove all XP gains from CW? That way cannot level mechs and be a detriment to your 'team'. Time to enforce the warning msg about needed fully customized drop deck?

Want to ruin Group Queue? Let the Rambo's drop into it solo.

[Myantra]

Davers, on 14 November 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

None of the common builds for any of those IS mechs go anywhere near 104kph so staying out of range isn't really an option. Scouting is pretty much an SRM snoozefest.

Hence the "or" in my statement. You can bring something with speed and mid-long range weapons to keep the brawling Novas and Stormcrows at bay, or you can bring something that can brawl as well as they do. If you expect to encounter an abundance of them, plan accordingly.

Scouting is indeed a festival of SRM's, but I would not call it a snoozefest. Once the two teams close into range, there are plenty of good brawls to be found in Scouting. That said, due to the amount of poor builds and QP mentality I have seen pilots on both sides bring into Scouting, I would not suggest dropping as anything less than a 3-man.

[Lily from animove]

Pariah Devalis, on 14 November 2016 - 03:05 PM, said:

I've actually argued with a guy piloting a streakcrow about that. I killed three of the four enemy mechs, solo kills, with 300 damage, and he was boasting about how he did so much better because he managed to deal 450 damage and skife a last hit on the last medium that was geting torn into by myself and the other two pilots. Like.. the very concept of "application of damage is more important than damage itself" is impossible for them to grasp. I can't even.... I feel like trying to understand such horrible logic would give me brain damage.

Ive seen a MDD with 6ssrm in Invasion, while he went out with 2,2k damage he threw 5 volleys at an assault emch without even opening one section. ssrm's are an amazign way to rkc up damage yet doing not much.

iuf you really wanna annoy people do a 6ERSL crow with lrm5's and just chainspam the lrm 5. that entirely destroys vision and is annoyign as hell

Spheroid, on 14 November 2016 - 10:39 PM, said:

Prove it in combat. What assumptions are you making? I am not going to assume that the Crab will be vaporized from the combined first alpha from the four crows. Distribute the damage to the various body segments and adjust for damage reduction. Still instakill?

Additionally assuming simultaneous alpha is a fallacy, there will invariably be some delay in the salvoes reaching their target based on positional difference.

You may or may have not seriously damaged the focused Crab, but now you have incurred a fair amount of heat and the endurance battle begins. I am rocking 15-17 DHS and coolshot in all four Crabs.

please record this if it is going to happen.

[VorpalAnvil]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 14 November 2016 - 09:21 AM, said:

Again, you're not making a point, you're just insulting others. I also would note that you don't display your tier.

The thing is, with the leaderboard function displaying Tier is really just superfluous. Hol up fam, lemme see ur season 5 stats.... Hahahahahahahahahahahaha