215 replies to this topic

[Chados]

Jman5, on 04 December 2016 - 09:09 PM, said:

This is the most important issue that I see so far. Nothing kills build diversity and experimentation more than penalizing respec.

I just want to be clear, this isn't about me being stingy. I have a bajillion cbills, gxp, etc, so I'll eat absurd costs all day in order to play around with different options. This is about the 99% of the community that has to save up every time they want to buy a new mech or module. Respecing needs to be as painless as possible so people aren't afraid to make mistakes, or try new builds, or just do goofy stuff from time to time.

Most people are smart. If respecing costs are rough, why blow their budget trying a bunch of different combinations when they could just copy/paste what some comp player on the internet thinks is best? This kills diversity and experimentation.

If I pay to unlock 20 skills on my hunchback 4SP, I should be able to respec into 20 different ones if I change my mind. Then if I want to go back, I should be able to do that. The cost should only come in initially acquiring the raw skill points.

ENCOURAGE BUILD DIVERSITY BY NOT PUNISHING EXPERIMENTATION!

I've never seen a freemium game that didn't charge real money to buy a respec token. STO...WoW...you name it. You want to change bad decisions? All is possible...for a price. If anyone thinks PGI won't monetize that...especially given that the skill grind is going to be something of a disincentive to buy mech packs in the first place depending on how grindy it actually is...is dreaming the impossible dream.

[Kael Posavatz]

Chados, on 05 December 2016 - 07:29 AM, said:

I've never seen a freemium game that didn't charge real money to buy a respec token. STO...WoW...you name it. You want to change bad decisions? All is possible...for a price. If anyone thinks PGI won't monetize that...especially given that the skill grind is going to be something of a disincentive to buy mech packs in the first place depending on how grindy it actually is...is dreaming the impossible dream.

And this is going to hurt OmniMech-players more than BattleMech players. The versatility and adaptability of the OmniMech was supposed to be its major selling point. If they go the route of monetizing the respect, and nothing I've seen suggests they aren't going that route, then this versatility is something that you're going to have to pay through the nose to use.

Before anyone can say 'cry, Clanner, cry', Russ keeps mentioning the Mad Cat MkII on his twitter feed, so they have to be contemplating a time-skip to 3066. The first IS Omni is released in 3052 (Raptor), and there's something like a dozen models in use by 3066. Does anyone seriously think they won't sell, oh, Black Hawk Ku, or the Firestarter and Blackjack omnimechs, or the Hauptmann?

That said, here's the really scary thing for game-balance. PGI is doing away with quirks and modules so that a fully-mastered Clan 50-tonner should be roughly equivalent to an IS 50-ton. Okay, well and good. But to do that either the IS is going to have better values on the 'skill nodes', or it's going to have to acquire them at a faster rate, either of which means that 'out of the box' the Clan Mech will be decidedly superior. And any new mech will eventually become decidedly inferior to the majority of those in-game which is only going to exacerbate the grind.

Edited by Kael Posavatz, 05 December 2016 - 08:17 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

Requiemking, on 03 December 2016 - 10:00 PM, said:

Well, at least they are doing something they should have done a long time ago. THROWING THE 3 TO MASTER RULE OUT THE WINDOW.

This was the worst game design choice I have ever seen actually get implemented. Requiring users to play mechs they don't want to or pay so they can play the one they already own that they actually wanted to play all along was HORRIBLE in every imaginable way from the perspective of the player.

[WildeKarde]

As a few have mentioned this might also stop me purchasing mechs packs for the foreseeable future. I've more than enough mechs that I could be grinding forever more if the xp is so much to master a single mech.

Most of my pre orders have been for getting a couple of new mechs to master, with a couple for some mechs for nostalgia.
Even the ingame sales have come a lot from having done most of the mechs to at least elite

[Vellron2005]

It seems to me that overall, the new skill tree is going to be EXACTLY what I wanted..

1) Its gonna give me the ability to specialize the mech in the way I want it to be better in.
2) Its going to end the 3 mech rule.
3) Its going to extend the grind, so I will have to play a single mech for more than a few days to get it mastered.
4) Its going to lower the gap between the master tier 1 player's mechs and the "started to play yesterday" mechs, because of the extended grind.

5) Its going to force me to play the mech's that have been collecting dust in mech bays for a long time.
6) Its going to actually diversify mechs, according to build and skills. My Timberwolf Prime will be different than your Timberwolf Prime.

7) Its going to shake up the meta yet again, and inevitably, freshen up the game.
8) If I have more than once variant of a chassis, they won't all have to have the same skills.

Overall, I like the proposed changes.. I hope they don't disappoint me in their execution.

Edited by Vellron2005, 06 December 2016 - 01:16 AM.

[Vellron2005]

One question...

Does the new skill tree mean that we will also have to re-buy all of our mechs? Or are we gonna be stuck with multiple variants of the same chassis, all un-mastered, and most of them, possibly, not needed?

Because the 3 mech to master rule made me buy and grind mechs I never wanted, so I will no longer need them?

[PraetorGix]

None of you geniuses and masters of over analysis even thought that those may be placeholder numbers or that they may be increasing XP income and returning the legacy xp in a ratio other than 1:1 right?

[Flitzomat]

I love the way they are going but I think the costs shown are ridiculous.

Also I think that having your Mechs mastered (I for one master everything I own) should be reflected in the new system.
Let´s say you can unlock 50 nodes per Mech.
To be the same as today every node should cost 1200 XP.
If you take into account that the Modules are taken out a higher price is justified. IDK 1500XP maybe
And also a slight progression in the nodes costs (as the weapon modules now) would be ok.

For the ones saying it will close the gap: Sad lol. I for one will be able to “master” at least 2 full drop decks instantly, even with the increased costs. And there are many who can do much, much more. So I will take the 8 best performing Mechs and will roflstomp all day long the poor XP-blue collars who are struggling to unlock torso twist. And I will never buy a mechpack again because why should I?

Again. I love the proposed system but 10.000 XP for one 1SP is simply insane and I truly hope it was just a stupid placeholder value.

With PGI its always like this: Announcement -> Hype and joy -> Thinking about it -> Panic -> Fear -> Anxiety -> Even greater panic -> It hits the servers -> Nightmare came true

P.s.: Why should they change the entire XP calculation and introduce an exchange rate different form 1:1, if they could just tone down XP:SP?

Edited by Flitzomat, 06 December 2016 - 02:03 AM.

[Beaching Betty]

Thanks for this thread! I didnt realise the video is up on youtube..

[Karl Streiger]

PraetorGix, on 06 December 2016 - 01:44 AM, said:

None of you geniuses and masters of over analysis even thought that those may be placeholder numbers or that they may be increasing XP income and returning the legacy xp in a ratio other than 1:1 right?

Placeholer™

Placeholder and Skilltree have the same meaning.

Anyhow the Skill Tree has the potential to be an enrichment to this game - but it has also the potential to be another nail in the coffin.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 06 December 2016 - 02:11 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Thanks PGI , im have 256 Mechs-the old system Forced my to have 3 Mechs of a sort , and im bye for 750 MCs Camos for all., or One Shot Camos for special variants.....now all Mechs new leveling for years in potato Rounds ?!or less stand the most unpayed in the Hangar- no thanks, im spare the XBills/GXPs for the next great Idea of PGI

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 06 December 2016 - 05:43 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 06 December 2016 - 03:11 AM, said:

Thanks PGI , im have 256 Mechs, many with one Shot Camo ...now all new leveling for years in potato Rounds ?! no thanks, im spare the XBills/GXPs for the next great Idea of PGI an play more other games

oh I've forgotten the Camo - oh dear....

all my mechs look similar as soon as i run them for the first time - if the camo is available (still missing on some Mechs)

A complete wipe would be interesting. All Mechs are sold
In the end - there should only Founder, Heros, Champion, Gold Khan Mechs, Special Geometry (if you like handles to throw your Mech into the bin) Mechs remain.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 06 December 2016 - 03:24 AM.

[SirSlaughter]

NoiseCrypt, on 05 December 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

Awesome. You and the 20 other players with that amount of xp will have tons of fun then

Yes indeed. I will unlock all the skill trees of my 7 centurions and then walk happily through my garden of trees

[Darky101]

Well untill this gets clarified my walet is closed. (again)
I will also not buy new cbill mechs in game.
Maybe its time for me (and my walet) to take another longer break untill the storm clears and balance/performance/grind gets good again. (or close to good)

Pgi Realy should have the decency to come forward and calm the waters by clarifying this.

Edited by Darky101, 06 December 2016 - 07:48 AM.

[Kael Posavatz]

Darky101, on 06 December 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

Well untill this gets clarified my walet is closed. (again)
I will also not buy new cbill mechs in game.
Maybe its time for me (and my walet) to take another longer break untill the storm clears and balance/performance/grind gets good again. (or close to good)

Pgi Realy should have the decency to come forward and calm the waters by clarifying this.

I am not sure what you are getting at.

There are another two months of development time, and personally I'm interpreting the numbers needed for XP and C-bills as placeholders. Something they stuck in to have something visible.

Probably the only thing that I'd really like clarified is whether or not they intend to monetize respecialization.

[ElCadaver]

[Jagd Wolf]

From the skill tree video:

Interesting to see the new "currency" - ISP.

1 ISP will cost you either 10,000 XP or 10,000 GXP plus 50,000 cbills.
Looks like all the modules are still there plus some interesting new ones.

In the skill tree demo the Hellbringer can have a max of 75 ISP points which will cost you 3,750,000 cbills and 750,000 xp maxed out. I also noticed that there can be negative quirks as well.

Must be a glitch in the demo - the Hellbringer quirks listed IS AC cooldown and IS AC range.

I hope that it will be easier to earn XP - the old system required 57,250 xp per mech x 3 = 171,750 xp to master three variants.

[Darky101]

Kael Posavatz, on 06 December 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

I am not sure what you are getting at.

There are another two months of development time, and personally I'm interpreting the numbers needed for XP and C-bills as placeholders. Something they stuck in to have something visible.

Probably the only thing that I'd really like clarified is whether or not they intend to monetize respecialization.

What I would like clarified is:
Is the xp required to max out a mech going to be close to what we have now?
Or wil it be much larger?

[ElCadaver]

Ok, hysteria aside, now I have looked at the new skill tree video. I think PGI could treat existing players mechs better.

I don't want mech xp refund for skill points spent.

I want any skills already qualified for under the old skill system transferred to the new skill system, regardless of the points it costs.

Otherwise, as far as I can see, the new skill system is taking away skill bonuses from our mechs that we have already earned, and are used to having.

The XP being returned from the old system is simply not enough to regain all the skills from the old mastery system, per mech

I think the current mech quirks are a different matter. I don't really care if they go. They were given freely, so they can be taken away freely. Regardless of the fact that they were supposedly created by going through the Battletech literature and gleaning them from the novels.

But the skills as they exist the current(old) mastery system, should be applied against mechs who have them unlocked, as we have already earned them in-game. Even players who don't spend a lot of money, have earned these skill modifiers, by being in-game as targets for those who do spend a lot. Something earned should not be taken away. The proffered XP refund seems a bit like a bait and switch, keeping our eye on the new changes and flexability, while returning pennies in the dollar on skills earned.

The new skill system does provide more customisation, but at the cost of being a massive shove back to the starting line for even long term players. It's designed to be a massive XP soak and encourage (or even make necessary) XP conversion to stay competitive in the game. It may be that XP conversion has not bought the company in as much as expected, but the skill tree changes are very obvious, and heavy handed.

Like if you agree

Edited by ElCadaver, 08 December 2016 - 10:22 PM.

[NoiseCrypt]

Darky101, on 06 December 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

What I would like clarified is:
Is the xp required to max out a mech going to be close to what we have now?
Or wil it be much larger?

Russ confirmed on twitter that the grind will be roughly the same as now.
Paul confirmed that all values in the demo were placeholders.

Edited by NoiseCrypt, 06 December 2016 - 10:33 PM.