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New Skill Tree First Look!


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#181 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 10:15 AM

View PostStikyard, on 03 February 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

We are already seeing the Meta with inflated hard points.


I find this funny because there are meta mechs that use 2 hardpoints. Two.

#182 C E Dwyer

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 10:25 AM

View PostZordicron, on 22 January 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

People, c'mon. You guys are already pissed off about a system we know almost nothing about. It just shows what is going to happen when we see PTS release: people will go, not even look, and then flood the forums and twitter with BS nerd rage rants because onoz, something might change.



The sky isn't falling, and this rage against change for the sake of raging is getting old. Go to PTS with an open mind and help Russ get it right, or never ***** about buying 3 mechs or module costs etc ever again.


I don't care about it changing.

I've never bitched about the three mech system.

What P.G.I are proposing though is a system that will make things even harder for new starts, I will have millions of xp and C-bills in the rebate, having mastered every single variant, of every single mech chassis up until the Kodiak, most of the other mechs are ellited.

This system is likely to have Zero impact on me, and zero impact on the I.s Clan tech imbalance.

All it's going to do is make things much much harder for new starts, and this title needs new starts as people just get bored or give up.

Shrugs

I'm not pissed, I'd just rather this title allow me to use up my premium time before it goes phut.

The old system does need replacing.

However you can see by simply looking at that DNA strand of a skill tree, that yet again nothing has been learned from past mistakes, and yet again P.G.I make an over complicated messy, fussy system that will not change a single thing in a positive way, just piss paying customers off.

It really does make very little impact on my time here, whether it comes in or not, if it sucks balls like I think it will, then dropping ten times a week isn't likely to change.

I'm putting my views across because there are still people around here that want this game to one day be good

#183 tokumboh

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 04:30 AM

I thought I would comment now the dust has settled on this and indeed nothing has been talked about it for a while

From the facts as I understand it is that the 3 mech rule is out. Now that is interesting for me since I end up buying mech packs experimenting with them and then leveling up those that I think are good and ignoring those that I think are crap. The only set of lights i have leveled up are my Urbies because I had a amount of XP I converted from my CTF builds I seemed to use exclusively

Apparently the grind will be the same which is good news, I reckon I can get about 1000 XP per game according to my stats and around 6 games per hour at a push tripling the XP needed to for each mech would mean that I would be leaving a whole set of mechs on the shelf

My understanding is that each mech will have a different skill tree, not only that but some mechs will still have baseline quirks since they need them. It could mean that others will have negative quirks also.

Now what I am happy about
1. No 3 mechs to get things up to elite
2. If I don't buy mech packs I am not grinding the life out myself (I do buy mech packs and most of my mechs in the mech bay are bought that way
3. I don't have to buy junk mechs for the one I want

This means however that individual mechs will become more expensive, since people don't need to buy at least 3 variants
It also increases the risk that the you buy a crap mech in a mech pack, It now makes more sense to wait and not buy mech packs unless you can see good advantage in buying them. So for example I may not have bought any variant of a roughneck since I not sure it any of them would be better than a jagermech, but I am betting buying a mech pack that there will be one that is good. essentially I believe they will have to have more information as to what the mech would be like before people would now buy them.

My best example was the CTF-0XP I bought it because it had ECM, If it didn't have ECM I most probably would have passed.
I bought the KDK because of the fact it looked the best assault in terms of hit points and speed it was much better than any other Clan assault.

Now I've bought the javelin on pure speculation but thinking that their has to be one variant that will work for me, as I did with the Bushwhacker but I am not sure that that with the skill tree I would do that as much.

If you cannot re specify the skill tree this is going to be a pain. Experimentation is key just to getting a build that you fiind comfortable and that is now something that if it is irreversible becomes a pain

I don't mind the idea of multiple versions of the same mechs having different skill trees for example centurions can be SRM brawlers with XL engines needing extra armour buffs or ballistic brawlers with extra speed tweak as an option you would need to work on what the balance is for the different builds that means respecification and there has been nothing about this. I say this as a person that has tried swaping modules for cooldown, for range and changing the amount of heat sinks and engine size to compensate

I would like more information as to what they are doing. What annoys me about some of these announcements is that they are huge changes and appear not to be well thought out and it is a if that people are supposed to believe what they said.

Lastly someone said that people should calm down and in a way I agree. The energy draw PTS for me was interesting I did not get many games but what what it did for me was to understand that sometimes the changes they make go against the stated intent.(ED was supposed to limit alphas and in my view all it did was limit ballistics. What was bad was that a simple test on testing grounds would have told you that without using a PTS server. Now if that's what they had intended then cool. but it abandonment kind of said that it was not. If you want to limit alphas limit heat sinks and make the penalty for overheating higher.

#184 Cato Phoenix

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 10:27 AM

I dunno, like I stated previously - I was cool if the grind was extended.

Yep. I like having goals.

#185 Zarcuthra

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 05:55 PM

Some of you are pretty comical.

It is so easy to elite a mech as of now...way way too easy. If you are decent, it can be done in a week of casual play...or in a night or two of focused play with premium time.

I would much prefer a much deeper skill tree, with tons of options...and I have no problem with it taking 3-4x or longer as long to max...and what is with the obsession of maxing out anyway? Itll take everyone just as long...and before you start talking about new players...they will be playing against opponents who also arent maxed.

The new system simply adds depth and choice...both good things. Just play and level up, and you will max out when you max out. Stop playing simply "to max out" and enjoy yourself.

Edited by Zarcuthra, 05 February 2017 - 05:58 PM.


#186 Valdarion Silarius

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 06:06 PM

View PostZordicron, on 22 January 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:


The sky isn't falling, and this rage against change for the sake of raging is getting old. Go to PTS with an open mind and help Russ get it right, or never ***** about buying 3 mechs or module costs etc ever again.


But I want the sky to fall Posted Image


Edited by Arnold The Governator, 05 February 2017 - 06:06 PM.


#187 cazidin

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 06:58 PM

Has anyone tweeted Russ?

#188 Clanner Scum

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 08:19 PM

They're probably going to increase the amount of XP earned per match. Hopefully. Otherwise this is a really really bad design decision.

#189 Baba Yogi

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 12:58 PM

I wouldn't like it if its just another xp bar though, i believe the best way to go about it would be to implement something that resembles a skill tree in an rpg game. You have limited amount of xp points you can earn at most and tree should require thrice that to fully master. Thus specialization occurs, and it adds meaning instead of turning skills trees into "more bonuses for veterans".

#190 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 12:59 PM

View PostLordhammer, on 06 February 2017 - 12:58 PM, said:

I wouldn't like it if its just another xp bar though, i believe the best way to go about it would be to implement something that resembles a skill tree in an rpg game. You have limited amount of xp points you can earn at most and tree should require thrice that to fully master. Thus specialization occurs, and it adds meaning instead of turning skills trees into "more bonuses for veterans".


That is the route they are going.

#191 tokumboh

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 10:07 AM

View PostZarcuthra, on 05 February 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

Some of you are pretty comical.

It is so easy to elite a mech as of now...way way too easy. If you are decent, it can be done in a week of casual play...or in a night or two of focused play with premium time.

I would much prefer a much deeper skill tree, with tons of options...and I have no problem with it taking 3-4x or longer as long to max...and what is with the obsession of maxing out anyway? Itll take everyone just as long...and before you start talking about new players...they will be playing against opponents who also arent maxed.

The new system simply adds depth and choice...both good things. Just play and level up, and you will max out when you max out. Stop playing simply "to max out" and enjoy yourself.


I suppose the reality is that as it stands now the achievements are not evenly spread you get some very early and then you go through a dearth of them it is rather lopsided in terms of motivation. I personally do mind the idea of grind as actually I just play but I think the skill tree and the achievement system needs to a little more linear rather than logarithmic
;-)

#192 Monkey Lover

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:24 PM

Posted Image


SOON™

#193 Arugela

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 02:52 AM

Ok, I only read the first page. So, excuse me if this already was in the conversation. But they said it cost 3.5 million exp to max one mech. The website says it's only 1,500 per node. And you can only max at 75 points. That is 112,500 points of xp per mech. I'll assume that the person referncing this used the entire tree. If you cannot get the entire tree this is not an issue.

per node:

100,000 cbill
1,500 xp

That is only for 75(91) points per mech:

7,500,000 cbills (9,100,000 cbills)
112,500 xp (136,500 xp)

max. That is very reasonable! In fact it is much cheaper. We actually get to use our xp which is accumulating like mad on our mechs. And we spend far less in modules overall. This is much better.

https://mwomercs.com...ic-test-session

As for the IS engine weakness. It wouldn't be unbalance. If everyone has access to the same tree options then each mech simply goes for what is needed. If you ahve an IS with xl engine you simply put some into durability for engines where a Clan mech wouldn't. They on the other hand may want to speed up their laser duration where an IS mech wouldn't.

I saw the test server stuff is out. How far is the testing and how long until it goes live? I would get on it but I'm a linux player using wine and I couldn't get the test server working.

Edited by Arugela, 10 February 2017 - 03:17 AM.


#194 Khobai

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 03:00 AM

it should not cost anything to respec

it didnt cost anything to respec before. i could switch modules around for free.

you should only have to pay for the initial skill points. once you buy them the first time you should be able to respec them for zero cost.

charging players to respec in a game where customization is its biggest strength is just idiotic.

Edited by Khobai, 10 February 2017 - 03:01 AM.


#195 Arugela

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 03:12 AM

I just thought of another fun thing they can do so they can still sell mech packs in groups if they want. The xp per mech type could share exp instead of being per mech. then if you have a hero mech or other mech with xp boost it is in a shared pool any mech of that same type(IE, all atlases, all kodiaks, all king crabs, etc) can use the xp they make. this would leave xp and cbill bonuses where they are.

Yea it would be nice to be able to respec for free. Although I personally couldn't care if it did a half refund thing and made you repay for half of it again, as long as it doesn't cost mc to do it.

Although, if they did make it cost mc I wouldn't mind as long as there were regular ways to make MC in game that did not include FW.

Edited by Arugela, 10 February 2017 - 03:15 AM.


#196 IBleedFordBlue

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 06:47 PM

So spend 8-20M on mech, change equipment and engine 2-8 mil, and then piss away another 9 mil for mastery. Yeah 30-40 mil for ONE mech. I own over 90 mechs that is like 900 mil cbills just to bring them back to mastery levels. Then if i want to change any one of them i gotta fork out more cbills for not only new equipment now but i have to pay to redistribute points. i like the idea of this new system but i feel like PGI made it purposefully TOO expensive. I suppose it could change I hope it will.

#197 Clownwarlord

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 06:51 PM

I am looking forward to the new skill tree. I just want to see the massive amounts of gxp, hxp, and cbills I will get in return to jump into some old mechs I have not been in a long time to rebuild them now skill wise.

#198 BLOOD WOLF

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 08:17 PM

View PostZarcuthra, on 05 February 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

Some of you are pretty comical.

It is so easy to elite a mech as of now...way way too easy. If you are decent, it can be done in a week of casual play...or in a night or two of focused play with premium time.

I would much prefer a much deeper skill tree, with tons of options...and I have no problem with it taking 3-4x or longer as long to max...and what is with the obsession of maxing out anyway? Itll take everyone just as long...and before you start talking about new players...they will be playing against opponents who also arent maxed.

The new system simply adds depth and choice...both good things. Just play and level up, and you will max out when you max out. Stop playing simply "to max out" and enjoy yourself.

dude.........stop making sensePosted Image

#199 Ghostrider270

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 12:24 AM

You have got to be kidding me!

A skill to improve firepower?!

This has got to be most unreasonable aspect in this game.
why?! to make it even less reproducable??
to make cheating easier?

lets have a headshot skill and an immortallity skill also then pls.

oh, wait, there actually is a mortality skill.

it´s bad enough we had range and cooldown modules to begin with

my holy golden cow!

PGI pls just look at it !!!

just like the new heat system this whole thing is a waste of time and effort on your behalf in my opinion.

this will not make the game any better. just more complicated. you are going to lose quite a lot of players over those two implementations i bet.

especially considering that mwo likely isn´t gonna last for very much longer (or even if it will) why would you come up with such monstrosities that will most likely only upset people and make them desert the game???

if the licensing rumor is just that then pls consider really improving the game instead of super-micro-managing such sideaspects like crazy.

this stuff is making people spend a whole more time on the game without even really spending time on BATTLES!

like people already stated: many have a a great many mechs bought with real money or in-game currency and spent a lot of time on them.
why on earth would you make all this time and effort be completely wasted ??? what do you think this will make them feel towards the game?

look at this game as a whole and plan for improvements making it bigger and better not just more complicated and even more mechlab-time consuming
maybe just put in more maps, make and maps and graphics in ´generell more awesome. make buildings not look like... strange volumes without any sense.
implement something like the 360 to 270 degree vision backwards weaponry, work on generell mech moving system. whatever... so many ideas out of the top of my head....

you´re not even gonna earn any more money through this imp because more guys will leave the game

Edited by Ghostrider270, 21 February 2017 - 02:12 AM.


#200 mad kat

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 01:11 AM

View PostZarcuthra, on 05 February 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

Some of you are pretty comical.

It is so easy to elite a mech as of now...way way too easy. If you are decent, it can be done in a week of casual play...or in a night or two of focused play with premium time.

.


You may find that a lot of players don't have premium time. If they're anything like me they will have boycotted spending cash flow on this game after repeated **** ups on pgi's part.

Leveling a mech as it stands can take plenty long enough especially with the mixed tier drops which are getting more and more common as higher tier players get fed up and leave. And in plenty of experience in this there is always a duff mech in the pack of three which will become entirely obsolete with this new system (for argument's sake I'm talking about Hardpoints).

This new system takes 2.5 - 3 times as long to grind a single mech. I for one do not want to spend a month leveling one mech with one build and have to pay to do it as well. If Russ thinks this adds 'experience' in his words he's even more clueless than a lot of people already think.





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