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#61 Lily from animove

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 09:51 AM

View Postbrroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 09:49 AM, said:


Sure. Lets count for two C-ERLL build.
Each C-ERLL needs additional 2 double heatsinks to be equal to is tech in heat management so:

2 * Clan ERLL + 4 Double Heatsinks + 1TC = 13 ton and 11 crit slots for 1539 range

Now lets count for two IS ERLL build

2 * IS ERLL = 10 ton and 4 crit slots for 1485 range

So clan pays additional 3 tons and 7 crit slots for 54m range advantage.


it is not equal, if you add two heatsinks to each erll it is doing mORE damage/s than even the IS lasers, You equalise the HPS and suddenly ignore the different DPS, thats not how it works.

#62 Dimento Graven

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 09:52 AM

View Postbrroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

Nope. Almost every IS mech has +10% energy range. Those making C-ERLL and IS ERLL Equivalent in range.
See, this is where we find that you're full of excrement.

It's not "almost every", it's not even "most", there's a HUGE number of IS 'mechs, approaching half the available chassis that do NOT have a 10% energy range quirk.

I'm going to assume you weren't intentionally lying but that you haven't even bothered looking it up.

I have, here's the list of ALL the Chassis that DO NOT have a 10% energy range quirk (I even left off the ones that had LL specific quirks, counting them in the "has it" category):

Spoiler


Quote

Nope. C-ERLL must have +2t (and +4 crit slots) of heatsinks to compensate more heat. Those making C-ERLL one ton (and three crit slots) MORE than the IS
That's only true if you're in the "derp derp derp - gotta fire every weapon all the time, no matter what" steering wheel under hive class.

Otherwise, you might load a few more HS's, but mostly, from what I've observed, people go for MOAR lasers in their Clan 'mechs looking to build that over powering alpha blast.

Otherwise, intelligent and skilled players, just fire what they need, and then drop back to cool off.

But, pray please continue playing the "I was born a poor Clan child" victim card.

It's entertaining...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 02 January 2017 - 10:17 AM.


#63 Bombast

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 09:53 AM

View Postbrroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 09:49 AM, said:

Spoiler



Your obsession with being absolutely heat neutral is almost admirable. All your mechs must dedicate half their tonnage to heat sinks. I kind of want to see what kind of ice cubes you have in your mech bay.

EDIT: For funsies, I tried bringing this design philosophy to some of my mechs. It's hilariously terrible. You guys should try it.

Posted Image


Edited by Bombast, 02 January 2017 - 10:00 AM.


#64 Otto Cannon

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:02 AM

Posted Image

I love this thread.

#65 Sorbic

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:03 AM

View Postbrroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 06:32 AM, said:

you all wrong. Its just because IS mechs has INSANE(like WTF level of INSANE) structure quirks


Nope, because if it really happened as described something would have happened. So either there was spread or HSR.

#66 GrimRiver

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:10 AM

Notice how the topic is only sticking to IS ERLL and C-ERLL because the two are almost equal in range with IS 10% range buff, where similarities end.

But the C-ERLL is smaller and so are C-DHS,therefor take up little room.

In any case IS ERLL and C-ERLL are both sub par weapons.

Let's instead talk about LPL, MPL, ML, SPL, SL.

IS LPL: 365m(min), 730m(max) - 11dmg - 7 heat.
vs
C-LPL: 600m(min), 840m(max) - 13dmg - 10 heat.

IS MPL: 220m(min), 440m(max) - 6dmg - 4 heat.
vs
C-MPL: 330m(min), 561m(max) - 8dmg - 6 heat.

IS ML: 270m(min), 540m(max) - 5dmg - 4 heat.
vs
C-ML: 405m(min), 688m(max) - 7dmg - 6 heat.

IS SL: 150m(min), 300m(max) - 3dmg - 2 heat.
vs
C-SL: 200m(min), 360m(max) - 5dmg - 3 heat.

IS SPL: 110m(min), 220m(max) - 4dmg - 2 heat.
vs
C-SPL: 165m(min), 297m(max) - 6dmg - 3 heat.

IS DHS: 0.15 dissipation - 1.5 heatbase - 3 slots - 1 ton.
vs
C-DHS: 0.15 dissipation - 1.5 heatbase - 2 slots - 1 ton.

C-DHS are smaller and more can be added than IS could, therefor clans can overcome heat issues if they're not packing more weapon than they should.

(ie: putting 4xC-LPL on a EXE which leaves little room for DHS, a mech with low amount of slots to start with vs a Ebon with enough slots to fit ample amount of DHS.)

People are putting too many hot heavy weapons on clan mechs and wonder why their mechs are getting too hot, gotta find that weapon synergy between right amount of heavy weapons and support weapons.(like this ebon build here EBJ-B see how it has the right amount of heavy weapon to support weapon ratio)

Also another note to add, IS DHS take up a metric crap ton of space leaving little room for weapons.

Edited by GrimRiver, 02 January 2017 - 10:21 AM.


#67 Dimento Graven

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:14 AM

View PostBombast, on 02 January 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

Your obsession with being absolutely heat neutral is almost admirable. All your mechs must dedicate half their tonnage to heat sinks. I kind of want to see what kind of ice cubes you have in your mech bay.

EDIT: For funsies, I tried bringing this design philosophy to some of my mechs. It's hilariously terrible. You guys should try it.

Posted Image

Yeah, an uggo splat cat. Hate those.

I don't believe in heat neutral either. I believe in fire control and paying attention to your heat.

That said, I was galled when he kept repeating the same lie, "almost all IS 'mechs get a 10% energy range quirk".

Hell, I checked, there's only 82 chassis that get 10% or better Energy Range, or LL specific quirks, vs the 145 'mechs that either DO NOT have an energy range quirk at all, or it's only 5%.

That's what, only about 1/3'rd the total IS 'mechs have a 10% or more energy/LL quirk.

That's HARDLY "almost all", it's not even half.

#68 XxXAbsolutZeroXxX

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:20 AM

View Postbrroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 06:17 AM, said:

If shooting opened yellow internals on IS mech with 4 LPL and nothing happens - is not OP? Then tell me what is.


Open task manager.

If windows or some other app is running an update.

Or windows is running routinely scheduled defrag.

Or there are strange windows apps like WWAHost.exe running.

I've noticed some of those apps prevent damage from registering.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 02 January 2017 - 10:20 AM.


#69 brroleg

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:22 AM

View PostDimento Graven, on 02 January 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

I have, here's the list of ALL the Chassis that do not have a 10% energy range quirk
Spoiler



Now, how many mechs from this list has more than 1 energy hardpoint? I checked directly in mwo store before saying it - all IS mechs with useful energy hardpoints has +10% energy range. And some even +15%. You said that only useless IS mech has +15%, but for example Black Knight has +15%, and id call you a liar if you say its useless mech.

#70 Dimento Graven

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:30 AM

View Postbrroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

Now, how many mechs from this list has more than 1 energy hardpoint? I checked directly in mwo store before saying it - all IS mechs with useful energy hardpoints has +10% energy range. And some even +15%. You said that only useless IS mech has +15%, but for example Black Knight has +15%, and id call you a liar if you say its useless mech.
And now the backpedaling begins!

No, you said:

Quote

Almost every IS mech has +10% energy range


There was no qualification of "useful energy hard points" or anything like that in your statement. You were including ALL IS 'mechs in your statement.

Besides that, what you're stating on "useful energy hard points" is an opinion, your opinion, so far an apparently ignorant one at that. Other people, who have extensive first hand experience in those 'mechs MIGHT disagree.

Are some 'mechs harder to do well in? Absolutely.

That doesn't make them, or their energy hard point placements, 'useless' though.

As far as you accusing me of being a liar, I didn't make the statement about useless 'mechs, that was someone else, go back and review the posts to figure out who it was, I don't really care enough to do it for you this time.

#71 brroleg

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:31 AM

View PostLily from animove, on 02 January 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:


if you add two heatsinks to each erll it is doing mORE damage/s than even the IS lasers


Of cause it does. But cause of burn time - on average C-ERLL doing same useful damage as IS-ERLL, only with more weight and crit slots (cause you need more heatsinks for C-ERLL than you do for IS-ERLL)


This guy explained what i mean under "useful damage"

View PostLily from animove, on 02 January 2017 - 07:37 AM, said:


if You need to kill a CT and your beamduration is too long one twists away, then you waste beamfire into a unecessary section, which means less % of your beam will deal damage to the relevant section. But you PAID the waste duration with heat. this leads the heatbar to cap out earlier and less efficient on the real target zone.

Edited by brroleg, 02 January 2017 - 10:37 AM.


#72 Monkey Lover

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:33 AM

View Postbrroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:


Now, how many mechs from this list has more than 1 energy hardpoint? I checked directly in mwo store before saying it - all IS mechs with useful energy hardpoints has +10% energy range. And some even +15%. You said that only useless IS mech has +15%, but for example Black Knight has +15%, and id call you a liar if you say its useless mech.


YA the mech is so op it hasnt been used in 6 months :)


Spider had 35% range at one time before Russ nerfed 70+ IS mechs. It was never OP even witht his. It was close to being playable.

#73 Revis Volek

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:35 AM

View PostWillard Phule, on 02 January 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

Sigh.

To PGI, "balance" means "balancing the population," not balancing the equipment.

Think about it. This last pass of "nerf the clans, buff the IS" is more about forcing the experienced PUGs and Groups to the IS than it is about trying to make the equipment "equal."



They didnt nerf the clams

They just buffed DHS on both sides and IMO the clans have a bit of en edge again with the bigger capacity.


Also, structure quirks dont show up on the paper doll.

Edited by Revis Volek, 02 January 2017 - 10:36 AM.


#74 brroleg

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:41 AM

View PostGrimRiver, on 02 January 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

Notice how the topic is only sticking to IS ERLL and C-ERLL


Because in FW - IS side uses nothing but ERLL and LL

And in quickbattle balance does not matter

Edited by brroleg, 02 January 2017 - 10:44 AM.


#75 GrimRiver

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:42 AM

Another note to add.

For every IS DHS is added, clans can fit 2 more C-DHS in it's place due to clans weapons taking up less slots and C-DHS being 2 slots.(For every 1 IS DHS, clans get 2 C-DHS)

I'll refer to my #66 comment.

#76 Revis Volek

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:45 AM

View PostGrimRiver, on 02 January 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

Another note to add.

For every IS DHS is added, clans can fit 2 more C-DHS in it's place due to clans weapons taking up less slots and C-DHS being 2 slots.(For every 1 IS DHS, clans get 2 C-DHS)

I'll refer to my #66 comment.




For every 1.5 IS DHS clans get 2...

2+2=4 3+3=6

You cant fit 4 Slots of equipment into 3 slots in your mech.

#77 Dimento Graven

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:46 AM

View Postbrroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

...

This guy explained what i mean under "useful damage"
What Miss Lily leaves out is the fact that from the Clan perspective part of the heat problem is the larger amount of Lasers they typically bring, and fire in an alpha, verses what the IS player typically brings and fires in an alpha.

The Clans typically bring more energy weapons than their IS equivalents, and alpha'ing them, regardless of the extra heat associated with the individual weapon, is that much higher because they're typically firing more weapons at once.

Sorry, you can't have your cake and it too, but Mr. Born-a-poor-Clan-child, I do have a lovely thermos for you.

#78 iliketurtles87

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:50 AM

View Postbrroleg, on 02 January 2017 - 10:41 AM, said:


Because in FW - IS side uses nothing but ERLL and LL

And in quickbattle balance does not matter

Why dont you go and play IS-mechs if you think they are superior. You have to add 2 more tons to get same out of an C-erLL as an IS-erLL with quirks. I think thats pretty good balanced.

Ill tell you a secret: the IS-Gauss is freaking 3 tons heavier and doesnt have any significant advantage.

You are a little hypocrite aren`t you?

Edited by iliketurtles87, 02 January 2017 - 10:50 AM.


#79 Commoners

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:56 AM

We need to quit beating around the bush and finally admit that the IS is OP because of the vindicator 1X and the SIB.

#80 Dimento Graven

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:57 AM

View Postiliketurtles87, on 02 January 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

...

Ill tell you a secret: the IS-Gauss is freaking 3 tons heavier and doesnt have any significant advantage.

...
That 10% chance to NOT blow up is actually felt.

Having recently switched from a KGC to an NTG, there is definitely a difference you can 'feel' when it comes to the arms being shot to an 'open' state.

Not much, but DEFINITELY noticeable.

Is it worth the extra tonnage and crit locations?

F no it ain't.





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