366 replies to this topic

[RestosIII]

Lukoi Banacek, on 03 January 2017 - 05:09 PM, said:

Which flies in the face of all of the "stats" being marched out on this thread about group populations, so again, oh...what's the word for it....oh right, hyperbole.

All kidding aside though, if there so many large groups on BOTH sides and you're not getting wins or having fun....is it the group(s) or the common denominator?

"It's not the problem you're claiming it is, you just suck!" Is that what we're going with here? Really? Jesus Christ. I have fun in solo queue. I classify myself as a potato to an extent. But loading up with a single friend shouldn't turn the entire experience into the same amount of fun as getting a root canal. But **** me right? I should just go back to solo queue and let any hope of playing with friends outside of private matches rot I guess.

[Lukoi Banacek]

RestosIII, on 03 January 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

"It's not the problem you're claiming it is, you just suck!" Is that what we're going with here? Really? Jesus Christ. I have fun in solo queue. I classify myself as a potato to an extent. But loading up with a single friend shouldn't turn the entire experience into the same amount of fun as getting a root canal. But **** me right? I should just go back to solo queue and let any hope of playing with friends outside of private matches rot I guess.

You really outta grow up man. That's not what I said.

Group queue has a different playing dynamic than solo. What works in solo queue does not always work in group queue. Identify the differences and alter your playstyle and you might find that group queue, even in a 2 man, can be alot of fun. That being said, manage your expectations. It's a less forgiving environment.

If both sides are just dripping in large groups as you claim....follow the large group on your side. They can't be persecuting you from both sides of the equation (i.e. friendly team and enemy team).

Your experience by and large isn't the same as my experience, in group queue. There must be reasons for that outside of just dumb luck or a MM out to screw you over. And it doesn't make you a bad player, or need to be considered an insult to understand that a different environment requires different actions if you want to win.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

RestosIII, on 03 January 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

But loading up with a single friend shouldn't turn the entire experience into the same amount of fun as getting a root canal.

Except that will happen with any game with a low population, I would've experienced the same thing before ranked queue was added to Overwatch if that game had the same population as we do. You can complain about it all you want but there isn't a solution that honestly balances everything nicely without a larger population to support it.

Really this all boils down to two problems, the population not be able to support better matches, and what the match maker uses to determine what a good match is.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 03 January 2017 - 05:27 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Lukoi Banacek, on 03 January 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

Since said program does not exist, we don't know how they'd implement it. Secondly, while I agree, a 2 man shouldn't have such an impact, people would still very likely complain loud and proud that it shouldn't be introduced to solo queue as they just want to be able to jump in and play solo casually without the distraction of such duos. There is no pleasing everyone in this game. It will be unfair to someone, so you don't introduce it to solo queue. Problem averted.

As far as I can tell the only one that would be complaining about 2 mans in solo queue would be the group queue players. Why is this completely ignored? Not only ignored but the opposite is presented as truth.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Johnny Z, on 03 January 2017 - 05:28 PM, said:

As far as I can tell the only one that would be complaining about 2 mans in solo queue would be the group queue players.

No, solo queue would erupt in rage as it did when this was a problem before.

[Johnny Z]

Lukoi Banacek, on 03 January 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

What group of people do you think falls into this Big Group boogieman?

I play small group routinely, as does a good chunk of my unit. We're not a particularly big unit either. Do we qualify?

I routinely see small groups from the top teams in this game (SJR, Emp and their friends, untagged aces who run together, etc).

Who is the boogie man group beating people down in the group queue that's the root cause of this issue you think 95% of the population is suffering through so often (citation needed btw)? And if it's only 5% of the population running these large groups, doesn't that mean you're only facing them like 1 in 10 times or something?

Its less than 5% running 12 mans. But most of the players are in regular queue. Your not using common sense or ignoring the facts on purpose?

It isn't hard for this small amount of players to troll the group queue effectively if that is in fact what they are doing. Which isn't a for sure thing, but the threat is there and very real considering a lot of the comments.

A better question is what % of players make up the group queue itself..........

Edited by Johnny Z, 03 January 2017 - 05:32 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Johnny Z, on 03 January 2017 - 05:28 PM, said:

As far as I can tell the only one that would be complaining about 2 mans in solo queue would be the group queue players. Why is this completely ignored? Not only ignored but the opposite is presented as truth.

Who are these "group Q" only players you refer to?

I play literally 75% or more of my matches in solo. I actually keep track of all kinds of little stats like that. I split the remainder on FP, small group queue and about twice a week, large group queue. Not including lobby matches here. Outside of Mystere, a 100% solo artist by his own admission, who else here is playing only one way? Which of the posters on this thread are part of the "large group lives matter" movement?

Who is making up facts, generalizing or trying to categorize without stats? Oh right, Johnny Z again. Don't you have someone to accuse of hacking again or something mate?

Thank God for forum /ignore. Time to dust that off.

[Rift Hawk]

Its a group queue. Do people really want to further split this "community" by adding yet another queue ? I see a full 12 man perhaps once or twice every few days. Not really seeing why this is such a big deal to people.....

[RestosIII]

Lukoi Banacek, on 03 January 2017 - 05:25 PM, said:

You really outta grow up man. That's not what I said.

Every single time someone has used the "common denominator" garbage in a conversation like this with me, it has always been "The person complaining is just bad." So that's what I assumed you meant. And I used to drop in large groups because of a friend that dragged me in to be with friends of his. Those matches were "bearable", but that was because I was just following orders from a drop commander that would kick me out if I didn't listen to his every whim. and surrounded by people that were used to steamrolling and could carry against the other large groups. I drop in a 2-man though, and the poor sap I'm dropping with+me are going to get killed horribly, no matter what team wins. That's my experience in group queue. Acting like it's selfish to ask for the ability to play with a single friend without getting tossed to the wolves is just ridiculous. Hell, the drop system one of the only I can say about any of Wargaming's games that I actually like, just because I can drop with a friend and not meet a team of 8 people on TS with each other coordinating perfectly to blast us.

[Johnny Z]

Andi Nagasia, on 03 January 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

its less Tier, and more Communication that make teams win, even some simple communication can lead to victory,
yes a 12 man has advantages, but the smaller groups have more tonnage, this is an advantage,
you say your willing to Voip but not herd Pugs, well if your in group there are already less Pugs,

everyone fears being the first, even if its a (So everyone whats the Plan) over Voip,
it shows everyone that someones willing to talk, which also means someone is willing to listen,
this can decide games, Silence rarely carries a team to victory, but it can often seal ones defeat,

For the want of a nail the shoe was lost,
For the want of a shoe the horse was lost,
For the want of a horse the rider was lost,
For the want of a rider the battle was lost,
For the want of a battle the kingdom was lost,
And all for the want of a horseshoe-nail
(Benjamin Franklin)

Voip is the Nail, Talk the worse thing that could happen is no one talks,
well if no one talks then your already there, so it can only be a benefit,
talk lead your teams to Victory, Call out what you see,

even seeing a light trying to sneak behind, that info can decide a game at times,
Edit- Spelling,

Last time I was in group queue, which was last week, the key to a well known teams victory was to send 2 INVULNERABLE light mechs to run around our team not taking damage while the really bads pretending to be good shot our team in the back as they tried to stop the lights.

When I say invulnerable, I mean parked commandos shooting assaults in the back not taking damage while stationary from the rest of the team trying to stop it.

That is not anything but lag shielding winning that match. I seen this tactic used almost every match by some teams in faction play also.

Edited by Johnny Z, 03 January 2017 - 05:42 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

RestosIII, on 03 January 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

Every single time someone has used the "common denominator" garbage in a conversation like this with me, it has always been "The person complaining is just bad." So that's what I assumed you meant. And I used to drop in large groups because of a friend that dragged me in to be with friends of his. Those matches were "bearable", but that was because I was just following orders from a drop commander that would kick me out if I didn't listen to his every whim. and surrounded by people that were used to steamrolling and could carry against the other large groups. I drop in a 2-man though, and the poor sap I'm dropping with+me are going to get killed horribly, no matter what team wins. That's my experience in group queue. Acting like it's selfish to ask for the ability to play with a single friend without getting tossed to the wolves is just ridiculous. Hell, the drop system one of the only I can say about any of Wargaming's games that I actually like, just because I can drop with a friend and not meet a team of 8 people on TS with each other coordinating perfectly to blast us.

Well, as a solo player, I don't want duos and trios in the mode either. So, again, I'm sorry yer having a hard time identifying what works for group queue and what doesn't, but honestly there is very likely some things you can do differently (not making you better or worse) that would improve your experience in the queue with your running mate. If you don't see that it can be on you two to adjust then I don't know what to tell you.

When I run with a small group, we work with/hover around any large group as much as needed because otherwise we're just handicapping them.

[Johnny Z]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 January 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

No, solo queue would erupt in rage as it did when this was a problem before.

What?

[Andi Nagasia]

Johnny Z, on 03 January 2017 - 05:37 PM, said:

Last time I was in group queue, which was last week, the key to a well known teams victory was to send 2 INVULNERABLE light mechs to run around our team not taking damage while the really bads pretending to be good shot our team in the back as they tried to stop the lights.

When I say invulnerable, I mean parked commandos shooting assaults in the back not taking damage while stationary from the rest of the team trying to stop it.

That is not anything but lag shielding winning that match. I seen this tactic used almost every match by some teams in faction play also.

im not ganna say Lag Shielding doesnt happen, but i am ganna say that its rare,
and its rarely ever if ever happened to me, so theirs that,

[Rift Hawk]

Johnny Z, on 03 January 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

What?

You don't remember the rage about groups from open beta ?

[Lukoi Banacek]

Andi Nagasia, on 03 January 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

im not ganna say Lag Shielding doesnt happen, but i am ganna say that its rare,
and its rarely ever if ever happened to me, so theirs that,

Shocked it took this long for JZ to mention someone hacking AGAIN.

Anytime he loses, hax.

[Rift Hawk]

Andi Nagasia, on 03 January 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

im not ganna say Lag Shielding doesnt happen, but i am ganna say that its rare,
and its rarely ever if ever happened to me, so theirs that,

Shoot a heavy with quad PPCs and watch it melt. Then shoot a locust with Quad PPCs and watch it run off with minimal damage taken.

[Deathlike]

RestosIII, on 03 January 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

Every single time someone has used the "common denominator" garbage in a conversation like this with me, it has always been "The person complaining is just bad." So that's what I assumed you meant. And I used to drop in large groups because of a friend that dragged me in to be with friends of his. Those matches were "bearable", but that was because I was just following orders from a drop commander that would kick me out if I didn't listen to his every whim. and surrounded by people that were used to steamrolling and could carry against the other large groups. I drop in a 2-man though, and the poor sap I'm dropping with+me are going to get killed horribly, no matter what team wins. That's my experience in group queue. Acting like it's selfish to ask for the ability to play with a single friend without getting tossed to the wolves is just ridiculous. Hell, the drop system one of the only I can say about any of Wargaming's games that I actually like, just because I can drop with a friend and not meet a team of 8 people on TS with each other coordinating perfectly to blast us.

To be fair, most drop commanders give you suggestions that you should follow. While not all commands are good or ideal, greater coordination occurs when people are on the same page.

Not every drop commander is the same, but better results happen when people know what they need to do (like not chasing squirrels until the end of a match).

Coordination is born on a design to working together... you can't expect useful results when you don't do fundamental teamwork basics.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Imperial X, on 03 January 2017 - 05:45 PM, said:

Shoot a heavy with quad PPCs and watch it melt. Then shoot a locust with Quad PPCs and watch it run off with minimal damage taken.

There's a difference between hitboxes being bad, and a team deliberately hacking with stand-still invulnerable commandos.

And I've yet to have a problem getting a LCT's attention with my twin or triple ERPPC shots when I landed them. COM's give me more problems lol.

[Jingseng]

it is groups... playing against GROUPS....

if you were on a team filled with 11 other strangers, getting pug stomped by a 12 man premade (hmmm where does that already happen...) you might have an arguing point... but otherwise? No. Get your group to talk to the other groups. Or get a bigger group... by being less complainy, making new friends, etc. That's how we did it in my old group, and that was fine.

Also, spoiler alert, you are not entitled to win every drop.

[Barantor]

Imperial X, on 03 January 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

You don't remember the rage about groups from open beta ?

That crap is ancient news man, majority of those people aren't even playing this game any more.