200 replies to this topic

[DrxAbstract]

RestosIII, on 05 January 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

Honestly, the Splat Dog is a better SRM carrier IMHO. I always forget that it's even possible to load up a Suckonner as a missile boat. I still think it should be getting those damn ammo quirks finally.

Better in terms of sheer firepower sure, but it doesnt have humanoid profile damage spreading potential, the agility+mobility nor can it abuse shoddy hit registration caused by JJs--Summoner beats the Dog in survivability by a large margin for having slightly worse convergence and 1 hardpoint shy of matching its payload.

I'm in no hurry to brawl either one of them, but an MDD is far easier to take down than an uppity SMN.


As far as the PPC SMN goes: People underestimate the potential of Clan ER PPCs when they're on an agile Mech that can effectively dissipate their heat, and that's before adding the SMN quirks and TC bonuses to the mix.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 12 January 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

The fact it's forbidden from Comp matches may have a role
But, how often would it be taken in restricted decks? I'm really not sure how good it really is. Polar or Alpine, probably over a Gyr or Timby (due to range), and the Gauss nerf. But mid range?

I imagine a pair of those and a pair of H2Cs could poke something nasty.

If it were allowed, I see it being the #3 option (behind Timberwolf and Night Gyr - depending on purpose/use), potentially over a Grasshopper for consistent suppression. Not even the Grasshopper-5P would have sustainable "overwatch" compared to the PPC Summoner (the Grasshopper-5P having zero heat gen quirks).

The Unstoppable Puggernaut, on 13 January 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

Sorry folks, still not buying it. I don't see this mech overly used. When used I don't see this mech dominating the game even if pumping out 1000+ damage. I've done that a few times and it takes AGES. Other mechs lasting the same distance would do much more (Timber gauss/ppc builds).

But I am guessing, someone titled the thread nerf so this will have caught Lucille's attention already.

As for Warhammer (laser vom) vs Summoner (PPC), if I was to ask the team to pick a target, I'd take out the Warhammer first. Summoner does damage over time, but the Warhammer can wreck something pretty damn quickly. I've used both. This is definately not a straight comparison as it depends on the map of course but I wouldnt want the Warhammer to start racking up the damage.

To give a mech that's always been shelfed a reason to be used is a good thing, this just needs to be applied all around the table.

I personally think there's more important balances that need to take place before looking at particular pods for a mech.

I think you're not seeing the full effect due to only being available for those that shelled out money to acquire the Loyalty Summoner variants.

Once that issue is resolved in like 9-10 months, the situation will change (chances are one lopsided requirkening will happen during that time).

It's not like everyone is keen on buying "Collector's Packs"... the worst possible value for acquiring mechpacks just for the loyalty variants.

Edited by Deathlike, 13 January 2017 - 09:32 AM.

[Deathlike]

DrxAbstract, on 13 January 2017 - 01:34 AM, said:

Better in terms of sheer firepower sure, but it doesnt have humanoid profile damage spreading potential, the agility+mobility nor can it abuse shoddy hit registration caused by JJs--Summoner beats the Dog in survivability by a large margin for having slightly worse convergence and 1 hardpoint shy of matching its payload.

I'm in no hurry to brawl either one of them, but an MDD is far easier to take down than an uppity SMN.


As far as the PPC SMN goes: People underestimate the potential of Clan ER PPCs when they're on an agile Mech that can effectively dissipate their heat, and that's before adding the SMN quirks and TC bonuses to the mix.

Maddog has always been considered super-squishy as currently constituted. It might have "all teh missiles", but it's closer to a glass cannon to keep it effective and totally relegated to support because of it. If you wanted to push with an SRM brawler, the Summoner is a vastly superior option at that point.

Requiemking, on 13 January 2017 - 12:29 AM, said:

So, what your saying is that, because the Summoner is good at a single style of play to the point of being a niche mech, it deserves a nerf. Really? By that logic, the Atlas deserves a heavy nerf because it's too good at Brawling, even though it positively sucks outside of that role, it still deserves a nerf. Same goes for any of the other mechs who specialise in a single style of play.

I think the targeted comment is specifically to nerf the specific niche, because in the hands of a good player, it is going to be better than most of the alternatives.. to the point where the actual counter is the mech itself.

It's fine if something excels in its niche.. the question is whether it excels far beyond the alternatives and I believe in this instance is a valid case.

[General Solo]

DrxAbstract, on 13 January 2017 - 01:34 AM, said:

Better in terms of sheer firepower sure, but it doesnt have humanoid profile damage spreading potential, the agility+mobility nor can it abuse shoddy hit registration caused by JJs--Summoner beats the Dog in survivability by a large margin for having slightly worse convergence and 1 hardpoint shy of matching its payload.

I'm in no hurry to brawl either one of them, but an MDD is far easier to take down than an uppity SMN.

As far as the PPC SMN goes: People underestimate the potential of Clan ER PPCs when they're on an agile Mech that can effectively dissipate their heat, and that's before adding the SMN quirks and TC bonuses to the mix.

It takes a good pilot to make a Summoner work to its best. In good hands its good, in average hands I say not so much

Dat y Maddog more popular in lower tiers

Summoner is also 10 tons heavier which also contributes to its durability compared to a maddog, humanoid stuff not withstanding.

One has more weight the other arguably better hard points unless you paid

The Summoners weight to jump ratio (please dont nerf it PGI, makes it unique for clans) makes it suitable to a jumpy play style thats sorely lacking in the higher tonnage mechs.

The thing is, its not like when the victor was king, other weapons were rubbish then but now I feel alot of play styles can counter it where before it wasnt the case

As for brawling, if your shots dont connect u gonna be hot.
If they do....
Hi 5 noice skills mech bro

Shouldnt be punished for skills

And I think it only right to remind people (Im taking a big leap heap here)
I think its only restricted (some where?) cause not every one can buy one or its not for CB, not cause its over powwerd
Am I rite?

Maybe clan pilots are better poptarters
Just let it slide........ Like the stormcrow, HunchIIC etc
















Kodiak 3

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 13 January 2017 - 02:40 AM.

[Zergling]

Star Commander Horse, on 12 January 2017 - 10:08 PM, said:

Glad to see some comparison stats

Without the E-Nips the Summoner falls right back into Lower Tier 3 (talking metamechs).

Though the height of the nips really makes it perfect for Poptarting, personally I think it's mostly that velocity that really gives it the edge. What's your thoughts?

The velocity quirks contribute a good deal to what makes it so good, but the 10% heat generation, 5% ER PPC + 5% energy cooldown quirks and up to 24 double heat sinks also make a fair bit of difference.

I usually drop 3 or 4 heat sinks for a TCIV to get even better PPC velocity though; another 10% velocity is worth the slightly lower sustained DPS output.

Edited by Zergling, 13 January 2017 - 02:45 AM.

[General Solo]

Beside its a loyalty mech, how many are ther?
Its not like its for CB or any thing,
Guiz were loyal and got a treat, cool wid me

I AM SO JEALOUS

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 13 January 2017 - 02:48 AM.

[General Solo]

Zergling, on 13 January 2017 - 02:44 AM, said:

The velocity quirks contribute a good deal to what makes it so good, but the 10% heat generation, 5% ER PPC + 5% energy cooldown quirks and up to 24 double heat sinks also make a fair bit of difference.

I usually drop 3 or 4 heat sinks for a TCIV to get even better PPC velocity though; another 10% velocity is worth the slightly lower sustained DPS output.

Trade heat sinks for TC you lose DPS over heat
Fair trade, And thats stuff I do wid one arm (duall ppc)
Just pop tart hate Is what hear and fear

Its my preferred play style, and that a big reson why I play
The other reason is my narc Quad LRM10 Summoner

Que Evil Laugh Muahahahahahahahhahaa

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 13 January 2017 - 02:53 AM.

[General Solo]

Thing a bout the Summoner is it allows you to boaST a 24 ton payload to decent levels of hieght
And with Bobbo Guns you expose less of your self
20 points plus 10 in splash

Edit: I doubt anyone in Solo Quick play is saying the tootie Summoner is OP..Compared to the Kodiak 3

SO WHAts THE matter

maybe the pilot was better caUSE DAT WHAT YOU GOITTA BE TO PILOT A sUMMONER gUID

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 13 January 2017 - 03:05 AM.

[a gaijin]

Zergling, on 13 January 2017 - 02:44 AM, said:

The velocity quirks contribute a good deal to what makes it so good, but the 10% heat generation, 5% ER PPC + 5% energy cooldown quirks and up to 24 double heat sinks also make a fair bit of difference.

I usually drop 3 or 4 heat sinks for a TCIV to get even better PPC velocity though; another 10% velocity is worth the slightly lower sustained DPS output.

I read quite a few people saying they put a IV or V into it, choosing a larger targeting computer over heat sinks. The tiny heat reduction on the prime is nice, but imho doesn't make up for heat sinks at all.



That some pilots put larger targeting computers into it is primarily what makes me think that Summoners, as they currently are, do not need to be hit with a Nerf bat. (Talking velocity quirks)
So it's back to either the velocity needed for hitting accuracy, or cooling for sustained fire but with less accuracy.
Either way, it doesn't sound overpowered. A couple lights will still take down a Summoner easily. Happens all the time.

Plus, reading a some opinions here from people who seem to not even pilot Summoners, yet wanted them nerfed.
WTF?!
That's like saying "I don't have a Pontiac Fiero so I don't want somebody else to have one either."
Kinda lame. I mean, come on, it's not even a Porsche for goodness sake

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Requiemking, on 13 January 2017 - 12:29 AM, said:

So, what your saying is that, because the Summoner is good at a single style of play to the point of being a niche mech, it deserves a nerf.

When it is too strong at that role and that role happens to be the strongest in the meta....yes. You don't just nerf something when it becomes strong at multiple roles, that would be stupid. Things like the BK back in the day or the Dire Whale needed nerfs not because they were strong at too many things, but because the strength of what they did well DEFINED the meta.

That said, the Summoner is good at more than just poptarting, but its brawling ability isn't near as crazy.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 January 2017 - 07:57 AM.

[Mystere]

Star Commander Horse, on 12 January 2017 - 10:08 PM, said:

And I don't own any KDK3s but wish the KDK3's would to get their original, pre-nerf stats back.

I missed the danger and accompanying excitement of getting the drop on a KDK3 and living to tell about it.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

DrxAbstract, on 13 January 2017 - 01:34 AM, said:

Better in terms of sheer firepower sure, but it doesnt have humanoid profile damage spreading potential, the agility+mobility nor can it abuse shoddy hit registration caused by JJs--Summoner beats the Dog in survivability by a large margin for having slightly worse convergence and 1 hardpoint shy of matching its payload.

This, if the Mad Dog had the survivability (and the JJs) the Summoner had the Mad Dog would win because of how well those missiles converge (which is insane sometimes).

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 12 January 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

it's forbidden from Comp matches ...

Deathlike, on 13 January 2017 - 01:39 AM, said:

... due to only being available for those that shelled out money

Just connecting the dots.

[Monkey Lover]

Star Commander Horse, on 12 January 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

In the 99 matches you've played this month you say you two in every game??

I've only played around 20 or so matches this month and have seen only two dual erPPC Summoners besides myself. Most I see are still SRM brawlers or ALRM20+4 lasers of some type.

I've only gotten 1000 dmg two matches this month

Group Q or pug Q? I play mostly in group Q and yes I'm seeing tons more of them than 6 months ago.
I have one to they're really easy to use now with all the crazy quirks. It's basically like using a dual gauss mech. (Give and take splash for more range)


Really what needs nerfed is clan ppc not the Summoner. Right now it has around 25% more DPS and the same heat as the clan er laser. I don't think I even seen a lpl nip Summoner haha

Edited by Monkey Lover, 13 January 2017 - 08:12 AM.

[Mystere]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 January 2017 - 07:56 AM, said:

When it is too strong at that role and that role happens to be the strongest in the meta....yes.

Well then, show me the math?

Edited by Mystere, 13 January 2017 - 08:13 AM.

[a gaijin]

Mystere, on 13 January 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

I missed the danger and accompanying excitement of getting the drop on a KDK3 and living to tell about it.

I enjoyed fighting the Bears ...from as far as possible. Those brawls were a joy to behold and even now, I don't understand how it was all done, just that enemy KDKs needed to be killed first, and friendly KDKs needed (need) to be protected at almost any cost

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 January 2017 - 07:56 AM, said:

That said, the Summoner is good at more than just poptarting, but its brawling ability isn't near as crazy.

I've played the SRM brawler builds and they are ...not that great imho. (I'm using the metamech.com builds)

You're a comp player. and I'm just a lucky scrub who wants to improve. So please share: besides the poptarting, what is it you say that the Summoner is actually good at?

Because my personal experience, as a fairly "new" poptart/sniper, is that it's pretty much all I can see the Summoner do: in other words, a "one trick pony."

[Mechteric]

Monkey Lover, on 12 January 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

Funny how easy it is to pull 1000 dmg with just two ppcs. Im now seeing atleast two of these every game.

I've solved the "..." Phase!

Phase 1: Spot enemy poptart Summoner
Phase 2: Avoid long range engagements, destroy it up close (because 2 ERPPCs are crappy up close)
Phase 3: Profit


The only reason why a 2 ERPPC Summoner can get such high points is when its allowed to remain alive the entire match. This is a highly specialized mech with an incredible weakness against any mech that directly confronts it. If the enemy team is successful at keeping their snipers from harm, then they have played well to their team strengths and avoiding its weaknesses.

[a gaijin]

Mystere, on 13 January 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

Just connecting the dots.

Don't hate on the loyalty variants. I was loyal! (am loyal!) And I'm devoted too

Monkey Lover, on 13 January 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

Group Q or pug Q? I play mostly in group Q and yes I'm seeing tons more of them than 6 months ago.
I have one to they're really easy to use now with all the crazy quirks. It's basically like using a dual gauss mech. (Give and take splash for more range)


Really what needs nerfed is clan ppc not the Summoner. Right now it has around 25% more DPS and the same heat as the clan er laser. I don't think I even seen a lpl nip Summoner haha

I pretty much only do Pug Dropping with a bit of Faction War seasoning. I'm in a very small team (normally 2 of us dropping together) so Group Drops are pretty painful. I actually see better coordination durin PuG drops cause since "we are all clueless" when someone (sometimes I) takes charge and starts drop calling, usually everyone listens which results in wins.
Nothing more satisfying than pulling successful Pincer Movements in a PuG
In group drops, when my small team tries coordinating with bigger and/or lots of small teams, it seems like No ONE listens. PuGs seem to pay more attention. How crazy is that?

But back on topic, in FW I don't see 2 e-Nip SMNs much just rarely in QuickPlay; seeing 2erPPC SMNs(Prides and 2-in-one-arm) more than before a bit

[a gaijin]

CapperDeluxe, on 13 January 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

I've solved the "..." Phase!

Phase 1: Spot enemy poptart Summoner
Phase 2: Avoid long range engagements, destroy it up close (because 2 ERPPCs are crappy up close)
Phase 3: Profit


The only reason why a 2 ERPPC Summoner can get such high points is when its allowed to remain alive the entire match. This is a highly specialized mech with an incredible weakness against any mech that directly confronts it. If the enemy team is successful at keeping their snipers from harm, then they have played well to their team strengths and avoiding its weaknesses.

I'm fairly certain I've been killed by you before. Maybe today even? Your name looks familiar

And your info is good. Spot on.

<o

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 13 January 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

I missed the danger and accompanying excitement of getting the drop on a KDK3 and living to tell about it.

Good news, it hasn't really changed all that much today. The barrier to potato entry was just raised a little bit.