225 replies to this topic

[KODIAK-AU]

justcallme A S H, on 16 January 2017 - 11:51 PM, said:

This is my first first game as IS tonight. Seriously the people crying on the forums about Clan OP, balance issues, everyone in EVIL is hacking etc etc.

What a load of crap. This is my best FP match yet, the IS tonnage is obscene!

Learn to play. I will gladly offer to help anyone that wants it as well.

1. 7-man on Clan side.
2. 1 player down the entire match
3. All my mechs are XL, even my Assault.
4. I was not even aiming CT's, just torso's for a bit of a fun game for myself
5. I got too aggressive in 2nd mech and only did 800dmg.
6. All my mechs were down to 25-35%, even as IS XL, I still was fighting on no worries
7. One of the players in the IS Charlie Lance said he was "going to snipe" from the back, I told him to get to the team and share armour, he not so politely "declined". I bet you can take a guess which player that was...


This is the other screenshot for components to show #3 is true. If I was aiming CT's I'd probably have done a bit less DMG/more kills.




Shout out to TDGB, without those two players, not sure we'd have won give the amount of LRM boats the IS players had.

Damn Stormie got praise on the forums, Que melt down in 3....2.....1...................

Was a fun match, might see you on tonight after I'm home from work.

[Starbomber109]

justcallme A S H, on 16 January 2017 - 11:47 PM, said:

Shut. Up.

I have a quip and a challenge for you.

The Quip: Anecdotes are not data.

The challenge: Do that to EVIL, or some other skilled 12 man like Kcom or one of the MS spinoff units, THEN brag about it in the forums. (I'm throwing this challenge out there because I really do wanna see someone roflstomp EVIL and then brag about it)

Edited by Starbomber109, 17 January 2017 - 03:58 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

I posted another half dozen screen shots? I'm sure I'll have more soon enough!

In a 12v12 match what you are saying simply won't happen. Because fire is focused, targets fall faster.
Numbers like that are honestly only possible in a PUG v PUG match. I've only ever done 3k in a 12v12 once.


What I am showing here, and NFI why this point gets missed, is that if you KNOW how to pilot the mechs you can do very well despite the imbalances.

I've regularly done 1.5k+ dmg against EVIL/KCom in a loss where the rest of the team does 400dmg each. So I would say that's roughly the numbers I'd do against a 5-8 EVIL team based on prior experience.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 17 January 2017 - 05:09 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

justcallme A S H, on 17 January 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

I posted another half dozen screen shots? I'm sure I'll have more soon enough!

In a 12v12 match what you are saying simply won't happen. Because fire is focused, targets fall faster.
Numbers like that are honestly only possible in a PUG v PUG match. I've only ever done 3k in a 12v12 once.


What I am showing here, and NFI why this point gets missed, is that if you KNOW how to pilot the mechs you can do very well despite the imbalances.
I've regularly done 1.5k+ dmg against EVIL/KCom in a loss where the rest of the team does 400dmg each.

Confirmed, even does 1800+ in losses with trial mechs.

[Monkey Lover]

justcallme A S H, on 16 January 2017 - 11:47 PM, said:

Shut. Up.

They dont call it clan easy more for no reason



hahah its not just tech balance but also map balance. I see you won on hpg, I would have guessed this as its a much easier map to get into optimal IS weapons range. If it was boreal vault IS attacking, im 100% sure IS would have lost.


So with tech, skill and maps you get some crazy games.

[Vxheous]

Monkey Lover, on 17 January 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

They dont call it clan easy more for no reason



hahah its not just tech balance but also map balance. I see you won on hpg, I would have guessed this as its a much easier map to get into optimal IS weapons range. If it was boreal vault IS attacking, im 100% sure IS would have lost.


So with tech, skill and maps you get some crazy games.

Learn to grasshopper P with 5ERLL

[justcallme A S H]

AnTi90d, on 17 January 2017 - 07:06 AM, said:

I had a blast with you guys, tonight... err, this morning.

I was really surprised that we saw an IS Ghost Drop.

Running with y'all is a lot like being one of five dogs when one single bowl of food is put down; you have to be really aggressive or you won't have anything to eat.

Good to drop with you again finally mate. Been a while! LOL @ 5 dogs over a bowl, that is what focus fire brings - aggressive play. It's good, means everyone WANTS to do dmg, WANTS to win, WANTS their piece of the meat.

I'm not surprised about the Ghost Drop, the wins were relatively easy. People in some of the matches were bringing absolute junk builds and were properly punished for it. I mean I recall the following;

Pure LRM Boats. Everything from TBR/EBJ/WHK/NTG/KFX etc etc.
The same UAC2 NTG 3 games in a row. Tried to take me on @ 400m with my 5LPL BLR2C.
Brawlers on Polar (the subsequent users running in and suicide / rage quittting).

These people are being upset about getting beaten and will not queue. The issue is they think that they are not the problem, it's everyone else that is. It's the fundamental attitude that is the problem in FP because there is no match maker.


Target appears, target falls. In QP most people run around arbitrarily shooting at whatever, lob LRMs from 900m away etc. You just cannot get away with that in FP. 500dmg across 4 mechs is showing how woefully inadequate LRM boats are and what bad piloting results in.

I mean there was one mech last night, 800m out. Trying to (stationary) LRM against my BLR1G with 6ERL. I'd poke and fire, by the time he had a lock and launched missles, I was behind cover. Not one volley hit me. Overall 400dmg I think over 4 mechs. That is nothing to do with balance, that is to do with pilot ability.

[Starbomber109]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 17 January 2017 - 05:45 PM, said:

Learn to grasshopper P with 5ERLL

I need 2 more of them

[Monkey Lover]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 17 January 2017 - 05:45 PM, said:

Learn to grasshopper P with 5ERLL

lol the meta xl engine grasshopper? Naa but i do like my 2lpl+6medium std engine one.

[justcallme A S H]

Monkey Lover, on 17 January 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

I see you won on hpg, I would have guessed this as its a much easier map to get into optimal IS weapons range. If it was boreal vault IS attacking, im 100% sure IS would have lost.

Not at all. I mean aside from eternal QP in Oceanic (haven't seen invasion for 2 weeks now I think lol)...

ERPPC on quirked mechs or bring GHP-5P / BLR-1G etc etc. All range quirked, can out DMG most clan mechs at the same range.

That said Boreal is still the worst map in the FP rotation for many reasons but it's not as if you cannot win on it if you have a bunch of people that bring the correct builds! You can easily force the Clan players off the middle-hills inside the gate with some good focus, well placed strikes etc etc. Boreal is the hardest to get right IMO.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 17 January 2017 - 05:55 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

justcallme A S H, on 17 January 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

Not at all.

ERPPC on quirked mechs or bring GHP-5P / BLR-1G etc etc. All range quirked, can out DMG most clan mechs at the same range.

That said Boreal is still the worst map in the FP rotation for many reasons but it's not as if you cannot win on it if you have a bunch of people that bring the correct builds! You can easily force the Clan players off the middle-hills inside the gate with some good focus, well placed strikes etc etc. Boreal is the hardest to get right IMO.

Like i said you would have lost because maybe 2 of you would have had ranged mechs. Eveyrone else would have had range around a medium laser.


The only way IS wins if if they take warhammers and grasshoppers. For every person on the team who doesn't do this you as less likely to win.

Why is this? Why is it there is only a few IS mechs that can compete? Is it because of a balance issue maybe?

[justcallme A S H]

No, we put in chat before each match what loadouts to bring etc. For the most part all the PUGs last night actually listened each match. Worked out fine. I could take a guess and say that most of the time, that doesn't even happen?

I bring everything from Catapults, Hunchback to Hopers/Hammers. Just depends on what I feel like. I actually ran a "founders deck" I called it for 6 months in FP

Cata / Huncback / Jenner. I'd chuck a Black Knight or an Assault - or 2 Hunchies etc. It worked out fine for me and certainly a little ways off the "meta" as at the time I didn't own any GHP/WHMs. I actually only got those in late nearly Nov from memory.

[Vxheous]

Monkey Lover, on 17 January 2017 - 05:53 PM, said:

lol the meta xl engine grasshopper? Naa but i do like my 2lpl+6medium std engine one.

So you're saying that it would be a hard time on Boreal, and then intentionally not bring a mech build that shines on Boreal....seems legit

[MischiefSC]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 17 January 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

So you're saying that it would be a hard time on Boreal, and then intentionally not bring a mech build that shines on Boreal....seems legit

BLR 2C because it's always a good choice.

Poke hopper.

Poptart BJ 3 with 2 erppcs.

2nd poke hopper or Thud of choice.

Boreal max profit deck! Nothing like dropping a 5lpl BLR on wave 3 to clean up the last 2 Clan waves. Legging dem novas before they are within SPL range, watching them Rage as they die with 0 damage.

[a gaijin]

Lupis Volk, on 17 January 2017 - 02:46 AM, said:

Sorry butter cup, but i play IS and Clams. Clams is my go to there because they are clearly better that 98% of anything the IS has. The sooner people like you either leave, get shouted away or grow up the better. Clans are OP and will be forever.

I don't normally get involved in these kinds of unproductive discussions, but these kinds of comments and tone indicate:

a ) sore losers.

or

b ) trolls.

Crying "OP" is not the solution. That is never the solution.

I get back-stabbed by machine-gun locusts (or whatever) and die with less than 200 damage sometimes. You don't hear me crying "nerf em," or "OP!"

I just try to position better next match. Keep calm and mech on. Learn and grow.

Crying OP is only for whiny, attention-hungry, selfish and feeling-entitled, special snowflakes.

[Carl Vickers]

Star Commander Horse, on 17 January 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

I don't normally get involved in these kinds of unproductive discussions, but these kinds of comments and tone indicate:

a ) sore losers.

or

b ) trolls.

Crying "OP" is not the solution. That is never the solution.

I get back-stabbed by machine-gun locusts (or whatever) and die with less than 200 damage sometimes. You don't hear me crying "nerf em," or "OP!"

I just try to position better next match. Keep calm and mech on. Learn and grow.

Crying OP is only for whiny, attention-hungry, selfish and feeling-entitled, special snowflakes.

Option B picked as he has stated somewhere else he only does scouting.

[MischiefSC]

So there's a difference between acknowledging there's still balancing issues and blaming balance for losing. Yes, Clans are still a bit better. Not nearly as much as they were in the clownshoes on head crazy broken OP era of 2 years ago but still some balance issues.

However it's in the range of teamwork skill to bridge the gap. Close enough that 1 good player on a team can help make up the difference.

It's the biggest issue in pug v pug bumfight matches when there's only 1-3 players on either side who are above T4. Then the tech difference is a bigger issue because when nobody can aim and everyone stairs CXL and Streaks and built in speed synergy is significant.

Saying "buck up" when someone points out a balance problem isn't a legit answer. It's saying "yes the balance is bad but it favors me so you just need to try harder".

However bad balance isn't an excuse not to put full effort in and git gud.

[K O Z A K]

MischiefSC, on 17 January 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

So there's a difference between acknowledging there's still balancing issues and blaming balance for losing. Yes, Clans are still a bit better. Not nearly as much as they were in the clownshoes on head crazy broken OP era of 2 years ago but still some balance issues.

However it's in the range of teamwork skill to bridge the gap. Close enough that 1 good player on a team can help make up the difference.

It's the biggest issue in pug v pug bumfight matches when there's only 1-3 players on either side who are above T4. Then the tech difference is a bigger issue because when nobody can aim and everyone stairs CXL and Streaks and built in speed synergy is significant.

Saying "buck up" when someone points out a balance problem isn't a legit answer. It's saying "yes the balance is bad but it favors me so you just need to try harder".

However bad balance isn't an excuse not to put full effort in and git gud.

I love how you repeatedly point out the advantages Clan have while completely ignoring the advantages IS has. What you call "balancing issues" at this point is largely due to PGI trying to offset the initially OP clan tech (which they introduced based off the backstory where clan is OP, trying to get ppl to pay for the invasion packages) with different type of advantages for IS. Players that try both sides see the advantages of both sides and know how to use it effectively by using the specific mechs on both sides that are very effective. You like to cite the compl leagues (although the gameplay there is somewhat different from CW) as the prime example that clan mechs are OP. I wonder what all the IS mechs were doing in the recent RHOD then, must have been silly comp players that don't know that all clan tech is clearly superior.

[MischiefSC]

Hazeclaw, on 17 January 2017 - 08:07 PM, said:

I love how you repeatedly point out the advantages Clan have while completely ignoring the advantages IS has. What you call "balancing issues" at this point is largely due to PGI trying to offset the initially OP clan tech (which they introduced based off the backstory where clan is OP, trying to get ppl to pay for the invasion packages) with different type of advantages for IS. Players that try both sides see the advantages of both sides and know how to use it effectively by using the specific mechs on both sides that are very effective. You like to cite the compl leagues (although the gameplay there is somewhat different from CW) as the prime example that clan mechs are OP. I wonder what all the IS mechs were doing in the recent RHOD then, must have been silly comp players that don't know that all clan tech is clearly superior.

I play both sides and have 2 alts. Very familiar with all of them.

You mean all the KDK3/KDK3/Night Gyr/HBK IIC decks? Or do you mean the TBR/TBR/HBK IIC/CDA decks?

Really?

Did you watch any of it?

Let me help you - here's the link for the 4v4 playoffs. https://www.twitch.t...die/v/113491716

Why don't you do some math on how many IS vs how many Clan mechs are in there. The 20-25% showing of IS mechs is prett comparable to what was represented in MWOWC and MRBC.

Which, if you'd watched any of them, you would know.

Why, you ask?

Because as has been stated more times than can be easily counted by pretty much every comp player involved in every conversation on the topic, Clan mechs are generally superior because tech isn't balanced.

Is it much closer? Absolutely. Way closer. There's even a few niches where IS mechs hold an edge. However as a given rule there's a Clan mech at the top of each weight class in every bracket.

[Vxheous]

MischiefSC, on 17 January 2017 - 09:17 PM, said:

I play both sides and have 2 alts. Very familiar with all of them.

You mean all the KDK3/KDK3/Night Gyr/HBK IIC decks? Or do you mean the TBR/TBR/HBK IIC/CDA decks?

Really?

Did you watch any of it?

Let me help you - here's the link for the 4v4 playoffs. https://www.twitch.t...die/v/113491716

Why don't you do some math on how many IS vs how many Clan mechs are in there. The 20-25% showing of IS mechs is prett comparable to what was represented in MWOWC and MRBC.

Which, if you'd watched any of them, you would know.

Why, you ask?

Because as has been stated more times than can be easily counted by pretty much every comp player involved in every conversation on the topic, Clan mechs are generally superior because tech isn't balanced.

Is it much closer? Absolutely. Way closer. There's even a few niches where IS mechs hold an edge. However as a given rule there's a Clan mech at the top of each weight class in every bracket.

When it comes to comp and risk vs reward, being able to survive a side torso loss is much more preferable than the low duration IS lasers and single shot ballistics and quirks that the IS have. When everyone in the game has decent to amazing aim, it's pretty important to not get instagibbed off the start of a match.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 17 January 2017 - 09:44 PM.