246 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 January 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

Am I missing something, I only see 2M+4E on the hero....

And so you do see 2xM + 4xE. I'm going cross-eyed. Too much forums for me...

Still, 2xSRM4 + 4x SPL/ML is nothing to sneeze at. Not quite the rate of fire, but still enough to eat SPL lights alive.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 18 January 2017 - 06:27 PM.

[chucklesMuch]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 January 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

I don't understand the people sh*tting on this 'Mechs performance.

The JVN-10P can run 6x SRM2 at 148 kph with 500 rounds of ammo and at least 1x JJ. Because all of those SRMs are in the torso. That's not trash-tier, that's extremely competent. It will eat SPL Lights alive and have enough ammo to also attack multiple bigger targets from the front...unlike certain bug-themed 20 tonners.

The JVN-11A can do 5x MPL easily.

The Hero can do 4x SRM2 + 350 rounds and 4x SPL. Also not trash.

All PGI really has to do is make this thing not-huge, and it's already in the running for "best IS Light."

I agree… albeit I’m not the best light pilot in the world, but I took a look at the info on the store page and thought it looked decent (with a hope that mobility and hit boxes could actually make it pretty good). even got a bit little excited - enough to consider getting the whole set... and then I entered forums…

[Bombast]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 January 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

Am I missing something, I only see 2M+4E on the hero....

You are not.

[Hit the Deck]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 January 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

The Hero can do 4x SRM2 + 350 rounds and 4x SPL. Also not trash.

Hi There! has only 2M (and 4E).

EDIT: Damn, noone noticed it when I started replying.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 18 January 2017 - 06:28 PM.

[Scout Derek]

Hit the Deck, on 18 January 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

Hi There! has only 2M (and 4E).

EDIT: Damn, noone noticed it when I started replying.

loool.

But. Just because it has 4 E and 2 M doesn't mean it won't be bad. Again, I'm a bit optimistic for new tech to come in, but...! I am still waiting for some things to come before I attempt to purchase it.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 January 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

Still, 2xSRM4 + 4x SPL/ML is nothing to sneeze at. Not quite the rate of fire, but still enough to eat SPL lights alive.

Still, that is something the JR7-D could do before it got rescaled, and it really wasn't good. I wish it had what you thought it had for hardpoints, because honestly I think it is the weakest of the bunch.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 18 January 2017 - 06:42 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Scout Derek, on 18 January 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

loool.

But. Just because it has 4 E and 2 M doesn't mean it won't be bad. Again, I'm a bit optimistic for new tech to come in, but...! I am still waiting for some things to come before I attempt to purchase it.

The real question is how does it compare to a Spider? Better in every way that counts?

[FupDup]

Bud Crue, on 18 January 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

The real question is how does it compare to a Spider? Better in every way that counts?

Pretty much.

However, using the Spider as a baseline for light mechs is like using a Vindicator as baseline medium performance.

To be fair I do think that Javie will at least be average by light standards, but being an average mech in the weakest weight class is not much to brag about.

[CanadianCyrus]

Welp, I pre-ordered. I passed on the Assassin and Roughneck (although I wish I knew of the new tech before early adopter rewards expired for the RN). I have relatively few lights compared to other weight classes and I started my MWO run with the Commando and I think I'll have fun with the Javelin.

[Scout Derek]

Bud Crue, on 18 January 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

The real question is how does it compare to a Spider? Better in every way that counts?

What fupdup said, And then I'd like to add in what I would say;

IF, and only IF, MG Arrays are added for the IS (probably not), the Spider and more ballistic hardpoint inflated mechs would become much better.

And while yes it may be average from the tech we have right now....

Who knows where it'll be when the new tech comes. Perhaps it might go up higher in the spot of being a good light mech for the IS.

[Bud Crue]

FupDup, on 18 January 2017 - 06:45 PM, said:

Pretty much.

However, using the Spider as a baseline for light mechs is like using a Vindicator as baseline medium performance.

To be fair I do think that Javie will at least be average by light standards, but being an average mech in the weakest weight class is not much to brag about.

Not for base line performance for all lights, but performance relative to others in the 30 ton weight class.
The Javelin is yet again the newest mech in this "competitive shooter" that is made, blatantly and explicitly better than its competition. They aren't even pretending otherwise that they are financing the game (and presumably MW5) on the basis of power creep. Balance is dead.

Edited by Bud Crue, 18 January 2017 - 06:50 PM.

[FupDup]

Bud Crue, on 18 January 2017 - 06:49 PM, said:

Not for base line performance for all lights, but performance relative to others in the 30 ton weight class.
The Javelin is yet again the newest mech in this "competitive shooter" that is made, blatantly and explicitly better than its competition. They aren't even pretending that all they financing the game (and presumably MW5) on the basis of power creep. Balance is dead.

If you really want to base the mech relative to others within its weight, I'm going to have to mention everybody's favorite 30-ton Clan humanoid Omnimech.

I will still continue to argue that we don't even have a true baseline light yet, so when determining if something is power creep we need to look at other classes. It's not like the Javelin or other lights fight in their own unique Solaris light-only arena. They have to fight everyone else. Even in "scouting" mode they have to fight medium SRM brawlers and the Clan Streakboat-crutch masses.

Edited by FupDup, 18 January 2017 - 06:55 PM.

[Scout Derek]

Bud Crue, on 18 January 2017 - 06:49 PM, said:

Not for base line performance for all lights, but performance relative to others in the 30 ton weight class.
The Javelin is yet again the newest mech in this "competitive shooter" that is made, blatantly and explicitly better than its competition. They aren't even pretending otherwise that they financing the game (and presumably MW5) on the basis of power creep. Balance is dead.

Depends on how you want to look at it.

At the Time, When the Spider was added, it was one of the more interesting lights to be in the game. with 6 MGs...? Surely it must've been OP back then!

Then they began to up the different types of mechs into the game, the biggest changer being the Clan mechs in late 2013 and 2014.

If you want power creep, Bad, the WCS is another mech of equivalent diversity of the Kodiak-3 and Kodiak Spirit Bear. Real power creep would've been the clans getting their 40 ton medium the Phantom

[Stefan the Usurper Amaris]

I like it, i may pick it up... i like the 6M hard points

[Bud Crue]

FupDup, on 18 January 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

If you really want to base the mech relative to others within its weight, I'm going to have to mention everybody's favorite 30-ton Clan humanoid Omnimech.

I will still continue to argue that we don't even have a true baseline light yet, so when determining if something is power creep we need to look at other classes. It's not like the Javelin or other lights fight in their own unique Solaris light-only arena. They have to fight everyone else. Even in "scouting" mode they have to fight medium SRM brawlers and the Streakcrow-crutch masses.

I don't consider power creep to be only an issue if a mech is better than all other mechs. You look at what it competes with for a customers $. Its an IS 30 ton mech. What are your choices for an IS 30 ton mech? Looking at all the variants, the Javelin is better...significantly so at least on paper...than the other IS 30 ton mechs. Not different in role but equal in value, but rather unquestionably better in all ways that count in this game.

That's power creep.

The Javelin is to the Spider, what the Kodiak is to the DIre, what the Marauder is to Orion, what the Warhammer is to the Cataphract, etc. New is made explicitly better in all the ways that count. Sure they don't do this every time (Timber vs Night Gyr?) but they do it enough to make me question buying anything more if most of what I have is just going to be turned to crap. I'm not supporting that model.

Edited by Bud Crue, 18 January 2017 - 07:01 PM.

[FupDup]

Bud Crue, on 18 January 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

I don't consider power creep to be only an issue if a mech is better than all other mechs. You look at what it competes with for a customers $. Its an IS 30 ton mech. What are your choices for an IS 30 ton mech? Looking at all the variants, the Javelin is better...significantly so at least on paper...than the other IS 30 ton mechs. Not different in role but equal in value, but rather unquestionably better in all ways that count in this game.

That's power creep.

The Javelin is to the Spider, what the Kodiak is to the DIre, what the Marauder is to Orion, what the Warhammer is to the Cataphract, etc. New is made explicitly better in all the ways that count. Sure they don't do this every time (Timber vs Night Gyr?) but they do it enough to make me question buying anything more if most of what I have is just going to be turned to crap. I'm not supporting that model.

But dat Arctic Cheetah tho.

If anything, this just highlights how terrible IS 30-ton lights are. Or frankly, how terrible IS lights are. Or even all lights (with Cheetah being the closest to good but even then it's still only used because of tonnage and/or weight class restrictions).

[Pariah Devalis]

FupDup, on 18 January 2017 - 07:03 PM, said:

But dat Arctic Cheetah tho.

If anything, this just highlights how terrible IS 30-ton lights are. Or frankly, how terrible IS lights are. Or even all lights (with Cheetah being the closest to good but even then it's still only used because of tonnage and/or weight class restrictions).

Reason I wanted the mech in game was not so I could use it, but because it is as close an analogue to the ACH I could think of that the IS had access to. I mean, 7E is pretty frikkin' potent, no matter how you slice things. And yes, I wanted it in game even though it is a mech I wouldn't pilot as I am a Clan player.

Edit:

I did, however, buy the basic pack. I put my money where my mouth is, and I want PGI to release more light mechs.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 18 January 2017 - 07:08 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 January 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

Wait, who bothers legging the Grasshopper?

The same people that leg black knights, I'd suspect

[chucklesMuch]

Bud Crue, on 18 January 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

snip

That's power creep.

snip

Please sir, may I have a little more power creep with my light mechs...


(by the way I don't disagree with your view power creep, just not concerned about it in an UP class)

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 January 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

Still, that is something the JR7-D could do before it got rescaled, and it really wasn't good. I wish it had what you thought it had for hardpoints, because honestly I think it is the weakest of the bunch.

Weaker than 4xE?

Savage.

Edit: we could always petition PGI to inflate it to 4x. It has worked in the past (and while we're at it, maybe we can get a second set of MGs for the LCT-3V and a third for the LCT-1V).

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 18 January 2017 - 07:29 PM.