426 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Dren, on 20 January 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

Starting to think PGI going for a money grab.Not buying anything until I see this skill tree in action.

It's a for-profit company. They charge for services... It's part of our capitalistic economy.

[R E T I]

[color=#EEEEEE]
[color=#558ED5]Warhammer Design Notes: The Warhammer consistently performs beyond other 'Mechs within its weight class, on both the Clan and IS side. It was too generously quirked with both offensive and defensive Quirks that were comparable to 'Mechs with greater inherent drawbacks. In this pass we are reducing its defensive Quirks to better distinguish the Warhammer as a well-rounded weapons platform, and to reduce its 'tank'-like characteristics when compared to other 'Mechs more befitting that role. Let me interpret this for you Russes Clanner buddys whined so he nerfs.[/color][/color]

[Gas Guzzler]

StaggerCheck, on 20 January 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

I think the Warhammer nerfs were justified. I was always a little shocked at how better off the Warhammer was introduced, compared to the Archer. I'm sure with was a long time coming for the Warhammer.

LOL perfect so we should balance IS heavies towards crap wagons like the Archer. That makes perfect sense.


Edit: Also, the Archer actually has better structure quirks than the WHM... BEFORE the Warhammer gets nerfed.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 20 January 2017 - 04:06 PM.

[Fake News]

So yeah, boating a whole 2 ppc's on the summoner is op?
that chassis returns to being a ****.

hey it's a shadow cat. let's nerf a **** mech.
huntsman, another **** mech. neft that.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 January 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

Best heavies in game: Night Gyr, Timber Wolf
Nerf: Warhammer

Taking ST loss penalty from 20%-40% isn't going to change much.

I get what PGI is doing. They're trying to balance all IS mechs relative to each other, clan mechs are a different beast altogether because of their superior equipment, so if they're trying to measure the entirety of IS mechs vs Clan mechs, you can't have one mech better than the others because it skews the data. I get that they shouldn't be testing this in the live client, but I feel it's necessary to get the data for when the IS equipment buffs come.

Overall this is a good patch, and I love that they explain the reasoning behind each change. I also applaud PGI for not stooping so low to turn isXL into Clan XL, we have LFE coming, and it can be a heavier but tougher cXL, give XL ST structure and STD overall torso structure and all engines will be viable while keeping their lore-accurate traits.

Edited by Gentleman Reaper, 20 January 2017 - 04:30 PM.

[Edward Hazen]

Carl Vickers, on 20 January 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

What you say about the ISXL makes no sense at all.

Clan battlemechs are only enhanced by dropping an XL(and why wouldnt you, all the benefits of XL with no insta death) in them and the only people I have seen using clan standards are potato's with bad builds.

So while Clans get to keep their survivable ST loss engines IS dont get survivable ST loss engines due to fear of offensive boost.

Let me give you a tip PGI, clans already have all that and with more battlemechs for clans on the way as you advance the timeline the gap will only widen. Think about it for just one second.

Clan lights, dont die on ST loss, IS light, need to put in an XL for the speed and weaponry but die due to ST loss, where is the parity there?

When they advance the timeline, IS will get Light Fusion Engines. IS Mechs with IS XLs are not supposed to and should never be able to survive losing a side torso, but IS Light Fusion Engines will end up being the preferred IS engines.

[Carl Vickers]

S0ulReapr, on 20 January 2017 - 04:27 PM, said:

When they advance the timeline, IS will get Light Fusion Engines. IS Mechs with IS XLs are not supposed to and should never be able to survive losing a side torso, but IS Light Fusion Engines will end up being the preferred IS engines.

And yet still inferior to Clan XL, bad argument is bad.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Carl Vickers, on 20 January 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

And yet still inferior to Clan XL, bad argument is bad.

Calm down, they'll still get buffed considering the extra weight.

[Carl Vickers]

Gentleman Reaper, on 20 January 2017 - 04:34 PM, said:

Calm down, they'll still get buffed considering the extra weight.

Like they have buffed the standards?

[Edward Hazen]

Carl Vickers, on 20 January 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

And yet still inferior to Clan XL, bad argument is bad.

Good argument, this is a BATTLETECH game and that is how the engines in a BATTLETECH game work, so play Clan Mechs if you will never be happy with IS tech. Taking away the "flavor" aspects of BATTLETECH / MechWarrior will just make this a lame generic shooter that won't even make twitch shooter fans happy.

[Widowmaker1981]

InnerSphereNews, on 20 January 2017 - 12:58 PM, said:

[color=#558ED5]Second, we want to stress that we are not solely looking at Engine balance as only being a matter of IS XL versus Clan XL, but between all Engine options available to the player. This includes Standard Engines and smaller Engine sizes of both types. There's been much discussion about the option of IS XL Engines being provided the same benefits as Clan XL Engines, but in light of the other benefits provided by larger Engine sizes and the massive offensive boost XL Engines can facilitate, such a change is not currently conducive to appropriate XL versus Standard Engine balance.[/color]

Derp.

1) So what about the Clan standard then? Its fine if no one uses that, or what? Only the IS standard engine needs to be used?
2) Why not just buff standards if its a problem? They are massively niche engines anyway, used in about 4 chassis even while IS XLs are instadeath. Try +30% (random value pulled out of my ***) structure for all 3 torso sections when mounting a Standard.

People will continue to rage about engine balance forever while IS-XL = dead on ST loss and Clan XL = alive.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Actually impressed by how they handled Clan quirks, Summoner and Huntsman both had torso yaw quirks shifted to the STs to incentivize using the non-loyalty pods, and while the Sad Cat lost some durability, it got some weapon quirks to buff missile and ballistic builds. It still need more weapon quirks to offset the lost durability, but I like that they want to make it's role stand out as a glass cannon, it really needs more ammo for using Gauss though, so either it gets a quirk for that or ballistics get more ammo per ton overall.

[50 50]

Good to see the trend of moving the structure quirks to armour quirks.
The perception of getting through the armour but not being able to destroy a section creates a sense of disbelief and that something else is going on.

Really looking forward to seeing and learning more about the skill tree and the new Incursion mode. Hope to read some details soon.

Quirk adjustments on the mechs etc etc... keep working at it. If the changes create the opportunity for more variety on the battlefields by evening out the balance of mechs in their specific tonnage bracket and tech line, that can only be a good thing.
Having a system which almost forces you to use certain mechs and builds denies us the freedom to enjoy all the awesome mechs at our disposal.

Looking forward to seeing what is ahead, thanks for the game PGI!

[Edward Hazen]

Widowmaker1981, on 20 January 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

Derp.

1) So what about the Clan standard then? Its fine if no one uses that, or what? Only the IS standard engine needs to be used?
2) Why not just buff standards if its a problem? They are massively niche engines anyway, used in about 4 chassis even while IS XLs are instadeath. Try +30% (random value pulled out of my ***) structure for all 3 torso sections when mounting a Standard.

People will continue to rage about engine balance forever while IS-XL = dead on ST loss and Clan XL = alive.

Standards are fine, you choose durability or speed. Light Fusions will be somewhere in-between.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Carl Vickers, on 20 January 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

Like they have buffed the standards?

We're not getting equipment buffs until after the new skill tree...

Widowmaker1981, on 20 January 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

Derp.

1) So what about the Clan standard then? Its fine if no one uses that, or what? Only the IS standard engine needs to be used?
2) Why not just buff standards if its a problem? They are massively niche engines anyway, used in about 4 chassis even while IS XLs are instadeath. Try +30% (random value pulled out of my ***) structure for all 3 torso sections when mounting a Standard.

People will continue to rage about engine balance forever while IS-XL = dead on ST loss and Clan XL = alive.

And people can continue to rage, I (as an IS player) don't want death-proof isXLs, there are more meaningful and lore-accurate ways to balance it to the cXL, making both the same takes the flavor out of choosing IS or Clan.

S0ulReapr, on 20 January 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

Standards are fine, you choose durability or speed. Light Fusions will be somewhere in-between.

They're not fine, the extra firepower and mobility that XLs give you offsets any extra survivability the STD tries to give you.

Edited by Gentleman Reaper, 20 January 2017 - 04:56 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

S0ulReapr, on 20 January 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

Good argument, this is a BATTLETECH game and that is how the engines in a BATTLETECH game work, so play Clan Mechs if you will never be happy with IS tech. Taking away the "flavor" aspects of BATTLETECH / MechWarrior will just make this a lame generic shooter that won't even make twitch shooter fans happy.

Actually lorenard, this is a game BASED on Battletech. How many of the mech varients have hard point inflation due to PGI adding things here and there?

What worked well in TT worked cause dice roll for hit and location which equated to a cone of fire, do we have that here?

This is a PvP game with instant convergance, very different to TT.

[Mcgral18]

S0ulReapr, on 20 January 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

Good argument, this is a BATTLETECH game and that is how the engines in a BATTLETECH game work, so play Clan Mechs if you will never be happy with IS tech. Taking away the "flavor" aspects of BATTLETECH / MechWarrior will just make this a lame generic shooter that won't even make twitch shooter fans happy.

No, this is Shooty Stompy Robots

You can take your Clam Munchkin OP robots somewhere else.
This is a competitive online shooter, and that needs balance.
There is plenty of imbalance, at the moment, seeing as just about every robot taken competitively is a Clam chassis (Griffin, Hammy, Hopper being exceptions, Hammy likely no longer a choice)



The flavour is the the slower combat, not the Insta-Gimp XLs

S0ulReapr, on 20 January 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

Standards are fine, you choose durability or speed. Light Fusions will be somewhere in-between.

No, they are not


They compete with cXLs, like it or not, and that's a completely laughable choice

LFEs will completely outclass the STDs, while being downright inferior to cXLs without another hefty nerf pass
cXLs are that superior (in that they sacrifice nothing, while the isXL sacrifices durability, and the STD sacrifices both speed and weapons)

The LFE gets similar durability, at the cost of either weapons or speed (or both to a degree)
Bringing in the LFE does not make the STD any less shite, not does it help the isXL compete with the cXL

All it does is make the STD Legacy Tech (avoid, you essentially take content OUT of the game), and allow more Dakka builds (which is fine)

[Felbombling]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 January 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

LOL perfect so we should balance IS heavies towards crap wagons like the Archer. That makes perfect sense.


Edit: Also, the Archer actually has better structure quirks than the WHM... BEFORE the Warhammer gets nerfed.

They're making everything crap wagons, apparently, Gas. The fact that they're rolling quirks back on the Warhammer just means it is near the top of the heap. As to your edit... go right now and look over the current structure quirks between the two chassis in question. I couldn't find one example where the Archer was better off than the Warhammer. Take the numbers as a whole, not just one instance where '22 on the Center Torso is better than 18'.

[G3 Heathen]

Everyone is talking about the quirks and i am like, i am gonna put thoses duct tape cockpit items in my urbanmechs, not my bushwacker.

[Ravenlord]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 January 2017 - 02:09 PM, said:

Look at all the people crying about IS, when the clans are getting that 40% penalty. Go cry me a river.

Seriously? IS has death penalty. You are being kind of ridiculous here.