426 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

Does it matter? Wikipedia has all sorts of lies on it. That's the problem with a user edited reference guide.

[justcallme A S H]

S0ulReapr, on 23 January 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

Sorry, but when you launch the website it says "A BATTLETECH GAME" not "A GAME BASED ON BATTLETECH". Yes, I agree that PGI should have just left the timeline at the 4th Succession War and never introduced Clans into the game, but the genie has been let out of the bottle and we have Clan Mechs, which should be Clan mechs, not just Clan Mechs in appearance only. I know many of you people will cry and whine until PGI breaks down and makes all mechs the same with only the only difference being the skins, then you can have your COD with robot skins, I just hope BATTLETECH and MW5 are out before that happens.

MWO is based upon.

It's a FPS.

Sorry but tabletop etc, has absolutely no place in a FPS.

Leave the lore at home. A lot of it does not apply, because it can't.

[MovinTarget]

You can bring all the lore to bear when PGI can drop 12 vs 10 *and* ensure the same mechs can be dropped in a reasonable facsimile of balance in qp. Oh, and you'd have to have a way to force clanners to follow their honor code or face consequences.

Solve those two (well, three) issues first and clans can have their tech un-nerfed.

Some clanners will still whine b/c they'll realize that 12 v 10 in FP, both sides @250 tons per pilot, clan 10 man would be bringing 500tons less than IS. Right now its only 300 tons less.

But we can't cross that bridge until clans act like clans. Oh, if PGI could enforce that, imagine how.many players would bail b/c they don't want balance, they want to win/stroke teh epeen and will pick the side/tech that gives them the ability to do so... no more wolf packing IS, nope gotta follow the rules and not fire on someone not engaged with you. No hanging in the back and kill stealing. Yes, there are some exceptions, but unless you want to be dezgra, ya gotta keep to the code.

Edited by MovinTarget, 24 January 2017 - 03:32 AM.

[Bishop Six]

ingramli, on 23 January 2017 - 05:41 PM, said:

Taking a STD is not a variable option under the current reward system, people earn most by kill blow, kill assist or most dmg dealt, but u dont really get paid by absorbing dmg, on the other hand, a clan mech can do BOTH, a KDK-3 can both tank, and wreak (a lot of) havoc at the same time, but a Atlas with STD will either being outgunned, or lack of speed to close in, and i am unsure if u want to put a engine in it that send u off spectating by ST loss death^TM, IS have to give up something, where clan dont have to.

And thats exactly the main problem!

S0ulReapr, on 23 January 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

As I have said before, MWO is a "BATTLETECH GAME" and in BATTLETECH, Clans have superior technology during the Clan Invasion era. IS standard and XL engines work the way they are intended to in this game and Clan XLs do too (although they are slowly being neutered). It is the "flavor" aspects of this game that make it worth playing and is the only reason BATTLETECH and Mechwarrior fans pour money into it and keep it available for people to play free or not.

If Clan is superior because of BT then make 12 vs 10. If not, then balance Clan to IS...But ypu want the advantage but not the disadvantage...congrats...

Carl Vickers, on 23 January 2017 - 07:01 PM, said:

As I have said before, MWO is a game BASED on BT, it is not wholly BT and never will be due to TT rules not translating to a PS. The game you want is MWO 5 or the BTech game due out in a few months.

Then there is no reason why clanners should be superior with their weapons...!

You 3 guys are pointing at the problem:

No Lore, no BT = 12 vs 12 without quirks

Lore and BT: 12 vs 10 with superior Clanners

NOTHING BETWEEN

[Marius Evander]

FTFY "No Lore, no BT = 12 vs 12 without quirks or diff weapon strengths / mech speeds / xl design"



IF we had 10 v 12 everyone would want to be clanners with better weapons, its like Counterstrike giving 1 team of 10 AK's and the other team of 12 barettas, which side is everyone going to want to be on.

[Tarriss Halcyon]

What we need is a better balance between the two factions. I do like the lore distinctions; but I can agree, Clan mechs are on the stronger side. However nerfing the Clan mechs into the dust is not the solution. If you make Clan engines totally identical to IS ones... then there is no reason to play Clan. We've got longer cooldowns and higher heat penalties, our autocannons have multi-shot instead of a single slug, our missiles stream instead of clustering and so on. Aside for heavy boating; most Clan mechs would become totally useless.

In this game, Battlemechs > Omnimechs. With a Battlemech; you have fixed hardpoints, but you have a lot more versatility with speed, internal structure and armor type... The only reason why the Omnimechs do so well is because they get good hitboxes... and because of the cXL. Remove the distinction between the two factions, and most players will migrate back over to the over-quirked IS mechs; so the vast majority of Omnis would stop being played altogether. Timber Wolves; Dire Wolves, and Stormcrows are probably the exceptions... y'know; the omnis that were on the stronger side to start with. But the fact that the IS has the quirks on-side; ninety percent of the time; would cause a reverse-Exodus.

I'm not advocating for or against the changes to the XL engines; not without proof that this reverse-Exodus would not occur. A PTS run; showing the engine changes... and buffs to the STD; since it would be totally worthless with the release of clan-style XL Engines for IS mechs, not to mention the Light Engine that opens up in 3060.

Also? I run STD Engines in some of my Clan battlemechs. The amount of confusion doing that can cause people when they rip off both side torsos is amusing to me; and I'm totally fine with altering builds to suit my non-meta preferences. My problem with a lot of these complaints is that they aren't really all that big of a problem in PUGs... y'know; the largest portion of the player base. A better idea would be further refining to FP; and potentially even going to 10v12 with balanced drop decks; should a PTS run prove that is viable.

Oh; and one last Lore-based comment. IF you think about it this way, the other reason why the Clans were so powerful in comparison to the Inner Sphere was the advanced tech. Let's think about it this way, a lot of the Clan pilots were untested, and none of them had ever faced IS tactics. I'm not going to finish this thought line, it's too insulting to most pilots on both sides of the field. But really; if PGI was to consider major changes to the way engines work; considering they call themselves "A Battletech Game", then they need to prove that major changes to the system from tabletop will actually fix the issue, namely the XL changes the keyboard warriors in the forums are demanding. And not just create a whole new balancing nightmare when pilots start pulling out mechs that should NEVER be played like XL 400 Atlas before whining that it dies too fast even with "OP Engines".

Edited by Tarriss Halcyon, 24 January 2017 - 05:34 AM.

[Frytrixa]

Wow, with those quirks it's an DOA Mech... again
R.I.P. Bushwacker :'<

[WayWarrior]

So where exactly is this link to their new launcher that was supposed to be available Monday? Is the current standalone launcher just going to auto-update to the new one? Tried to glance through the main post but didn't see any kind of links. Maybe a different thread/part of the website?

[PT1]

Not much left playing clan mechs with the quirks gone, reduced, drop limit disadvantages, now xl side torso destruction penalty... the only thing i see keep increasing is for IS.

Will miss those invasion matches we dropped together (hardly get to play those anymore as my time zone typically coincides with new FP phase). Hope one day PGI will bring back the invasion mode for more people to enjoy.

Edited by PT1, 24 January 2017 - 06:14 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Tarriss Halcyon, on 24 January 2017 - 05:33 AM, said:

What we need is a better balance between the two factions. I do like the lore distinctions; but I can agree, Clan mechs are on the stronger side. However nerfing the Clan mechs into the dust is not the solution. If you make Clan engines totally identical to IS ones... then there is no reason to play Clan. We've got longer cooldowns and higher heat penalties, our autocannons have multi-shot instead of a single slug, our missiles stream instead of clustering and so on. Aside for heavy boating; most Clan mechs would become totally useless.

In this game, Battlemechs > Omnimechs. With a Battlemech; you have fixed hardpoints, but you have a lot more versatility with speed, internal structure and armor type... The only reason why the Omnimechs do so well is because they get good hitboxes... and because of the cXL. Remove the distinction between the two factions, and most players will migrate back over to the over-quirked IS mechs; so the vast majority of Omnis would stop being played altogether. Timber Wolves; Dire Wolves, and Stormcrows are probably the exceptions... y'know; the omnis that were on the stronger side to start with. But the fact that the IS has the quirks on-side; ninety percent of the time; would cause a reverse-Exodus.

I'm not advocating for or against the changes to the XL engines; not without proof that this reverse-Exodus would not occur. A PTS run; showing the engine changes... and buffs to the STD; since it would be totally worthless with the release of clan-style XL Engines for IS mechs, not to mention the Light Engine that opens up in 3060.

Also? I run STD Engines in some of my Clan battlemechs. The amount of confusion doing that can cause people when they rip off both side torsos is amusing to me; and I'm totally fine with altering builds to suit my non-meta preferences. My problem with a lot of these complaints is that they aren't really all that big of a problem in PUGs... y'know; the largest portion of the player base. A better idea would be further refining to FP; and potentially even going to 10v12 with balanced drop decks; should a PTS run prove that is viable.

Oh; and one last Lore-based comment. IF you think about it this way, the other reason why the Clans were so powerful in comparison to the Inner Sphere was the advanced tech. Let's think about it this way, a lot of the Clan pilots were untested, and none of them had ever faced IS tactics. I'm not going to finish this thought line, it's too insulting to most pilots on both sides of the field. But really; if PGI was to consider major changes to the way engines work; considering they call themselves "A Battletech Game", then they need to prove that major changes to the system from tabletop will actually fix the issue, namely the XL changes the keyboard warriors in the forums are demanding. And not just create a whole new balancing nightmare when pilots start pulling out mechs that should NEVER be played like XL 400 Atlas before whining that it dies too fast even with "OP Engines".

You forget one of the best features of fixed engines in clams.. except for a few outliers, the bulk of your force is moving at the same speed. Clans can "group up and deathball" much more organically than IS. If you have an FP match with mostly solos on both sides, that is a real advantage even if the two teams have similar skill and poor/mediocre comms.

So unlocking clam engines may be attractive, but peeps have to recognize there is a whole host of domino effects when they change just one aspect drastically.

*SOON* IS will have XXL engines that will give them comparable traits to clan XLs, hopefully. If that happens, IS will then have 3 options (Durable, Light, or in Between) for engines where clam omnis will still have exactly ZERO options.

[Edward Hazen]

PT1, on 24 January 2017 - 06:12 AM, said:

now xl side torso destruction penalty....

There have been penalties for Clan XL side-torso destruction for a long time now (20% less engine heatsink heat dissipation, huge movement speed reduction), they are just making it worse (40% less engine heatsink heat dissipation). Incase you did not know, the double heatsinks that are in the engine are the only double heatsinks that actually dissipate heat at twice the rate of single heatsinks, so this is a pretty significant penalty since Clan weapons generate more heat than IS to begin with.

I will play tonight and if my Clan Mechs are significantly less viable than they were, then I will strip them down, sell them and just buy IS Mechs with C-BILLS only. I will also never spend real money on this game again, because if I am being sold a (BATTLETECH) Clan Mech, I want a (BATTLETECH) Clan Mech, not something that is made to barely resemble one just because some people cried that it was better than their favorite Mechs.

[Willothius]

S0ulReapr, on 24 January 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

Incase you did not know, the double heatsinks that are in the engine are the only double heatsinks that actually dissipate heat at twice the rate of single heatsinks, so this is a pretty significant penalty since Clan weapons generate more heat than IS to begin with.

Well, like any Mech that was just shot in half, you'll also probably lose most of your guns, so you also MAKE less heat. Honestly, the increase from what is was to new values isn't THAT much.

Anyway, I still play both sides with equal enthusiasm, and I am not at all afraid my Clan mechs will notice much from this change..

..Now what they SHOULD do, is also imply similar penalties for overheating; slower movement/turning when close to heat limit, would definately add some new level of heat management!

[SuperFunkTron]

MovinTarget, on 24 January 2017 - 03:31 AM, said:

You can bring all the lore to bear when PGI can drop 12 vs 10 *and* ensure the same mechs can be dropped in a reasonable facsimile of balance in qp. Oh, and you'd have to have a way to force clanners to follow their honor code or face consequences.

Solve those two (well, three) issues first and clans can have their tech un-nerfed.

Some clanners will still whine b/c they'll realize that 12 v 10 in FP, both sides @250 tons per pilot, clan 10 man would be bringing 500tons less than IS. Right now its only 300 tons less.

But we can't cross that bridge until clans act like clans. Oh, if PGI could enforce that, imagine how.many players would bail b/c they don't want balance, they want to win/stroke teh epeen and will pick the side/tech that gives them the ability to do so... no more wolf packing IS, nope gotta follow the rules and not fire on someone not engaged with you. No hanging in the back and kill stealing. Yes, there are some exceptions, but unless you want to be dezgra, ya gotta keep to the code.

I think that the clan's original debut strength was where it needed to be, but the lack of 10vs12 is what upsets the balance. The 10vs 12 play style also makes the most sense in FP style matches where those extra 2 mechs each wave really add up to an extra 8 mechs each game. I am absolutely sure that it would lead to all sorts of perceived imbalances but in reality would balance in the context of a whole match. If a simple system such as clan mechs receiving huge c-bill penalties for not killing one mech before moving on to the next (unless attacked by another mech) would handle the social aspect of clan culture (a good video would need to be made so new players have an idea of what is going on and why).

I would be really happy to be able to test out a system like that. One that shows that the extra power of the clan mechs comes at the high cost of needing to play like a clanner or risk tiny c-bill rewards even while winning. The return to two distinct civilizations would be a breath of fresh air, but the reality is that until there is some amount of story injected into the game (even if it is just historical information of mechs and the reason for the conflict) there is little there for new players to grasp what is going on in this universe. You'd have to have some experience beyond this game to even know why there is an invasion and why the tech is different.

I hope that MW5 will be made with consideration of this fact and that it will help pave the way for a deeper MWO

[Arkhangel]

@SOulReapr: I never said you had to charge forward in all the time in an assault, and i agree there's several better suited, however, trying to to use the "torso twisting won't do anything" arguement doesn't really work that well for the fact quite a few Assaults have arms to block fire too. Granted, if you're set up for fire support and so on, you should be behind the guy leading in, but you shouldn't be at the back either, you've still got more survivability than smaller guys, and most kills, even with long range weapons still happen at <600m. Also, please bear in mind there are other assaults than 100 tonners. Battlemasters, Zeuses and Victors are actually all decently fast assaults even with Standards.

And one specific other thing. it's kinda hard for the enemy team to get the time to line up a shot on your STs if you're constantly firing in their direction, and still making use of what cover the approach you're using has, and if you're properly moving forward, you're either in the company of friendlies who can cover your flanks and assist in suppressing the enemy team while you close, or the terrain itself is covering your flanks.

@SuperFunk: MW5 isn't going to have clans at all. If i remember right, it's 3015, that pre-dates even Wolf's Dragoons being set into the IS. Course, that also means they should probably remove the Raven, given it actually didn't even exist until 3022, give or take, and that's just as a prototype.

Edited by Arkhangel, 24 January 2017 - 09:43 AM.

[Flying Blind]

"Full details and download link for this new launcher will be provided this Monday, prior to the patch on Tuesday."

where is this? I can't find it

[SuperFunkTron]

Arkhangel, on 24 January 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

@SuperFunk: MW5 isn't going to have clans at all. If i remember right, it's 3015, that pre-dates even Wolf's Dragoons being set into the IS. Course, that also means they should probably remove the Raven, given it actually didn't even exist until 3022, give or take, and that's just as a prototype.

That takes a dump on introducing the Clan invasion . But it will at least introduce some story and background to the conflict between the IS houses hopefully. The only thing really needed is for some amount of story to be injected into the games so people have an in game story/history to read that helps provide some context to this vast universe. That is a huge part of Battletech but has not yet been addressed in MWO unfortunately

[ThomasAH]

Flying Blind, on 24 January 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

"Full details and download link for this new launcher will be provided this Monday, prior to the patch on Tuesday."

The text is not yet up, this text might contain the warning that the new patcher would download 15GB (instead of just 500MB for the regular patch). If you really want to do this, you can use the link on Paul's twitter: https://twitter.com/...958105884983296

[Alexander Garden]

ThomasAH, on 24 January 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

The text is not yet up, this text might contain the warning that the new patcher would download 15GB (instead of just 500MB for the regular patch). If you really want to do this, you can use the link on Paul's twitter: https://twitter.com/...958105884983296

The new Portal should have detected your existing Standalone client, and simply applied today's two patch files. If you're up for it, can you send a ticket off to technical@mwomercs.com so Bobby can get some info about your install setup?

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

............ Am I the only one playing this game at the moment??

I am still waiting for Match maker to find me a game, gotta hear this new weird dramatic music taking over the normal Mechbay music too.

[C E Dwyer]

MovinTarget, on 21 January 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

Seriously, weapons on your torsi and head can magically converge on a target regardless of the distance change... i get arm + torso convergence, but even if all the non-arm weapons are fully pivotable to pinpoint point blank out to 1k meters, they are not going to do it instaneously other than perhaps lasers using lens/mirrors to bend light/aim (still a stretch).

You want to lower TTK, consider slowing torsi/head convergence. Suddenly the meta won't revolve around mechs that pack weapons in torsos-only. Poptarys can still work but will not be as accurate. Armweapons will be more viable, despite the risk since your "quick" pinpoint dmg will have to come from there...

Maybe holes in the idea, but just a thought...



I hope its just coincidence this sounds familiar...

You mean the parable of the Navi, and the statistician and what happened to the soil the Navi had left over after filling in the hole ?