121 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

The AMS has a 240 meter total (120m optimal) engagement range....straight out...well if you're in the middle of the flight path...its really 480 meters.That's 3 seconds of missile flight time and between killing and switching to the next missile in the flight, its about half a second, so 3 seconds is enough for ONE AMS to render an LRM5 useless and seriously reduce an LRM10 volley. That's without the overload damage module, rof quirk, or range quirk/module. Missiles have 1 health (NARCs have 2), AMS normally does 3.5 damage per round at optimal range, so you're looking at several rounds to kill the first missile starting at 240 meters out (rof is 30 per second) and again after it passes by you and the rounds are chasing after it, and the reason WHY they can still catch and destroy LRMs that have passed the mech with the AMS, when they only have a projectile velocity of 100, is that the missiles are travelling in an arc...and the computer is putting the AMS rounds into the path ahead of the missile.

[Tesunie]

Tina Benoit, on 25 January 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

Apologies. Build #3 has been eliminated.

Q. Does this mean that the selection will remain at 2 choices now, or you going to add in the 4th most voted on build (seen as the 3rd one was DQed)?

Though we have two very good choices for builds... I kinda also feel it might be a disservice to have it as only two choices here where all others have three. (Though, I also would understand if it's just too late to change this, as well as it might be too confusing.)

There is actually a tie for 3rd place then:
Dual ERPPC Nova
-or-
12 ERSL with triple AMS

Each of these had 7 votes on them. (I could of course be wrong... But I tried to find the next highest voted ones.)

[Soviet Alex]

Build 2. Much easier to learn the game in. Someone who doesn't know the maps is going to get hammered trying to get Build 1 into ERS Laser range. Nova just isn't fast enough for that loadout until you figure out how to sneak up on people in a dirty great walking tank.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Add arm actuators and either works, but I think Build 2 is friendlier to new players than a point-blank build like 1, even though I like 1 more.

[Whiplash Wally]

Build #1

[Dee Eight]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 26 January 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

Add arm actuators and either works, but I think Build 2 is friendlier to new players than a point-blank build like 1, even though I like 1 more.

On an escort mission earlier with my NVA-S... I expended 5000 AMS rounds defending the VIP from lurmage. It is a hoot to think about how frustrating it is to the guy with the LRMs trying to hit the VIP and nothing is getting through. With an average of 9 rounds needed to kill each missile, that means I intercepted in excess of 555 missiles.

[Tesunie]

Whiplash Wally, on 26 January 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

Build #1

There are questions as to why you made your choice. Like, how do you consider it new player friendly?

[Kamikaze Viking]

Not a huge fan of either of these options, but that said;

Build 1 is a good build but NOT new player friendly due to ghost heat and the very very short range.

Build 2 is the better for new players, yes its warmer but shouldn't be that hard to manage, yes the AMS helps against the lurms a new player will see, no ghost heat, and a usable effective range.

[Mycroft000]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 26 January 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

Add arm actuators and either works, but I think Build 2 is friendlier to new players than a point-blank build like 1, even though I like 1 more.

My build is supposed to include hand and arm actuators but I must have missed clicking those when I built it in the mechlab.

I've been trying to make build #2 work for me but it's just not effective for me at all. I also have a problem with relying on what your enemy is bringing to the match to be effective. It's the same issue so many of us had with the faction play event that required you to kill 10 of each weight class caused people to queue up in scouting as nothing but lights on the last day of the match.

Dee Eight, on 26 January 2017 - 07:59 PM, said:

On an escort mission earlier with my NVA-S... I expended 5000 AMS rounds defending the VIP from lurmage. It is a hoot to think about how frustrating it is to the guy with the LRMs trying to hit the VIP and nothing is getting through. With an average of 9 rounds needed to kill each missile, that means I intercepted in excess of 555 missiles.

I haven't run out of AMS ammo yet, and I've started being a little reckless with my positioning to get targeted.


I think if we do get the 3x AMS Nova as the champion, swapping it out to 6 ERSL and 1ERLL will be the best way to go with it.

Edited by mycroft000, 26 January 2017 - 08:34 PM.

[NighthawK1337]

Build 2. AMS and not breaking ghost heat. We can't expect newbies to manage firing groups properly without frying themselves.

[Larsh]

Hey everyone. If my Nova S does become champion please make sure to include Arm / Hand Actuators. I completely forgot to place those in in Smurfy's.



Also, if we do change the weapons on My 3 AMS build, I want to make sure that it can still be effective at ranged distances. I know many here would rather see SL or SPL, but the strategy of this build is to keep distance, and not charge in guns-a-blazing.


---Larsh "Casual Mechwarrior"

Edited by Larsh, 27 January 2017 - 07:51 AM.

[Mycroft000]

Larsh, on 27 January 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

Hey everyone. If my Nova S does become champion please make sure to include Arm / Hand Actuators. I completely forgot to place those in in Smurfy's.



Also, if we do change the weapons on My 3 AMS build, I want to make sure that it can still be effective at ranged distances. I know many here would rather see SL or SPL, but the strategy of this build is to keep distance, and not charge in guns-a-blazing.


---Larsh "Casual Mechwarrior"

I'm not entirely sure you missed clicking those, because mine is missing them too.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Tina Benoit, on 23 January 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

- Which one of the below 3 builds do you think should get implemented as the champion?
- Why would this fit best as the Nova Champion?
- Is your pick new-player friendly? If so, how?

Build #2 (no MGs on Build #1, no vote!)

Has a much greater engagement range with the MLs and the extra Energy hardpoint in the torso allows for a little tinkering if you buy the Champion 'mech.

- No Ghost Heat
- Triple AMS should assist with LRMs and S-SRMs
- Runs a little cooler
- Great range
- More back armour to help the turn-and-run players

[Dee Eight]

Jay Leon Hart, on 27 January 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

Build #2 (no MGs on Build #1, no vote!)


- Triple AMS should assist with LRMs and S-SRMs

AMS also destroys NARC warheads.

[multisoul]

only recruits die regularly by lrm so i would give them #2

if those are the last 2 mechs on earth i would choose #1 because i know how to hug walls
my prime has 8 med lasers + targeting computer

[Wraith 1]

Both of these builds are okay in quick play and invasion gamemodes. I really dislike build #2 because it has horrible SDPS and AMS is an utter waste of tonnage, but the build isn't that bad.

But consider that this is a 50T 'Mech, and new players will use this trial in Scouting. 12 ERSL is devastating and easy to aim, and I'd avoid engaging build #1 without backup even in my strongest brawling mediums. On the other hand, 6 ERML with only 20 CDHS is way too hot to do anything other than distance poking, and will be eaten alive by any brawler in scouting.

[Mycroft000]

multisoul, on 27 January 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

only recruits die regularly by lrm so i would give them #2

if those are the last 2 mechs on earth i would choose #1 because i know how to hug walls
my prime has 8 med lasers + targeting computer

I do have 2 Primes with 8xERML, but those are strictly used for specific maps in FW, and occasionally when I'm just looking for something a little different.

Wraith 1, on 27 January 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

Both of these builds are okay in quick play and invasion gamemodes. I really dislike build #2 because it has horrible SDPS and AMS is an utter waste of tonnage, but the build isn't that bad.

But consider that this is a 50T 'Mech, and new players will use this trial in Scouting. 12 ERSL is devastating and easy to aim, and I'd avoid engaging build #1 without backup even in my strongest brawling mediums. On the other hand, 6 ERML with only 20 CDHS is way too hot to do anything other than distance poking, and will be eaten alive by any brawler in scouting.

I hadn't even considered scouting, I wish my unit wasn't IS right now so I could go test build #2.

[Tesunie]

mycroft000, on 27 January 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

I hadn't even considered scouting, I wish my unit wasn't IS right now so I could go test build #2.

It probably wont shine as well in Scouting mode, as LRMs are not as prevalent (as in, just about non-existant because it gets so close range so fast). It should be able to hold it's own there, but it isn't going to be very well either.

For everything else outside scouting mode (which they should have a second Clan champion to choose from, which may or may not be better for scouting mode), I feel that build #2 would just be a better fit for most new players. I do agree it will probably run hot (I have not tested it, but that's because I really don't want to alter one of my 4 Novas I do own), but it should at the same time be manageable. As a reminder, LRMs do tend to be more populous in the lower tiers of game play, so the triple AMS should be more helpful there than in T4-1 game play (less helpful the farther up in tiers you go). A lot of people also highly recommend not taking Trial mechs into FP. We know they end up there, but I don't believe we should necessarily cater to that concept for mech building. There is only so much we can make a build for...

As a final remark as to your play experience with the mech, recall your rank and the fact you have a more close in playstyle. Most PUGs and new players tend to stay at longer ranges, which is where the ERMLs will help more. I wouldn't mind a compromise (with some testing) with an ERLL and 5-6 ERSLs. Personally, I think I'd rather see 2 ERLLs (on in each arm) and 4 ERSLs for closer in engagements if we compromised on the weapon loadouts... (Just my opinion, as I once ran a 2 LPL and 4 ERSL Nova that worked reasonably well, and with ERLLs you'd save tonnage to add in that AMS I didn't have on mine.)

[Mycroft000]

Tesunie, on 27 January 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

It probably wont shine as well in Scouting mode, as LRMs are not as prevalent (as in, just about non-existant because it gets so close range so fast). It should be able to hold it's own there, but it isn't going to be very well either.

For everything else outside scouting mode (which they should have a second Clan champion to choose from, which may or may not be better for scouting mode), I feel that build #2 would just be a better fit for most new players. I do agree it will probably run hot (I have not tested it, but that's because I really don't want to alter one of my 4 Novas I do own), but it should at the same time be manageable. As a reminder, LRMs do tend to be more populous in the lower tiers of game play, so the triple AMS should be more helpful there than in T4-1 game play (less helpful the farther up in tiers you go). A lot of people also highly recommend not taking Trial mechs into FP. We know they end up there, but I don't believe we should necessarily cater to that concept for mech building. There is only so much we can make a build for...

As a final remark as to your play experience with the mech, recall your rank and the fact you have a more close in playstyle. Most PUGs and new players tend to stay at longer ranges, which is where the ERMLs will help more. I wouldn't mind a compromise (with some testing) with an ERLL and 5-6 ERSLs. Personally, I think I'd rather see 2 ERLLs (on in each arm) and 4 ERSLs for closer in engagements if we compromised on the weapon loadouts... (Just my opinion, as I once ran a 2 LPL and 4 ERSL Nova that worked reasonably well, and with ERLLs you'd save tonnage to add in that AMS I didn't have on mine.)

I really hope everyone is actually testing both builds rather than just voting based on opinions. I've actively been testing build 2 to see if I can make it really work, but so far, it's just not been terribly effective for me, usually in the 250-350 damage range.

I have tested Build 2 with 1 ERLL and 6 ERSL which is the best I can get it to work for me, but overall the heatsinks lost to the AMS make it run just hot enough to fall short of what the Nova is capable of.

I don't dislike your suggestion of multiple large lasers, pulse or ER, but I do think that makes weapon grouping more difficult for newer players.

What are the 4 Novas that you own? I've got the Breaker, 4x NVA-Prime and one each of the A, B, and S variants, planning on picking up the others with this sale going on.

Edit: I've got another variation on Build #2 that seems to be a bit better on heat management, 4MPL and 3xAMS. Just finished a match with 4 kills(3 solo) 5 assists and 598 damage.

Edited by mycroft000, 27 January 2017 - 10:21 PM.

[Tesunie]

mycroft000, on 27 January 2017 - 10:01 PM, said:

What are the 4 Novas that you own? I've got the Breaker, 4x NVA-Prime and one each of the A, B, and S variants, planning on picking up the others with this sale going on.

I've had a Nova build similar to what is proposed with #2, so I can take a reasonable guess as to how well it may work. (Mine had more ERMLs and no AMS.) I possibly might give it a try, but I feel I'll probably get better results from it than you do, as it already matches my play style more than it seems to match yours. Of course, for most people 200-300 damage is considered "average", and for others it still counts as "you participated and did your job". Just what I tend to see at least.


As for Novas that I own, I have the Prime, B, D and S. Prime has gone through several configurations over it's time with me, from 8 ERMLs, to 2 LPls and 4 ERSLs, to 4 ERLL (too hot), and finally sitting right now at 10 ERSL for when I was with the competitive team of my unit (which didn't work out so well for me, as I don't consider myself a competitive player much). I'm alright in the 10 ERSL, and I respect that it can deal a lot of damage fast. However, I'm not overly fond of it due to it's short range. Powerful, but not an overly good fit for me personally. It's stayed as my Nova Prime because I can't ignore it's potenial, and it did inspire a Huntsman build I've dubbed "Scrapmaker". Scrapmaker use to have an UAC10, 4 ERSLs and 2 SPLs. I've since had to adjust it due to UAC changes to the LB10x. Doesn't hit as hard, but once the lasers have stripped the armor off... ouch. But if you noticed, LB10x still has some range to it, which fits my skills still compared to a pure brawler build.

The B carries the UAC10 and 3 ERML build I suggested, but the most recent changes to the UAC10 has out right killed this version completely. It just jams after a few shots, and never unjams before I die. Use to deal 300+ damage with it, but now it's lucky to break 100 from the changes to the UAC. I had a copy of this build on my Huntsman B, and the Huntsman changed to the LBx and has worked very well for me. I can only theorize that my Nova B with that LB10x would would as well, if not better due to it's quirks.

The D carries a 5 ERSL, TAG and two LRM15 launchers. I've been told it's an odd build mostly used by me and only a very few others. Can hold it's own in a close in fight, but it likes to lurk for a while at mid range before closing to perform some surgery with it's lasers...

Finally, my S has 2 UAC2s and 4 ERMLs (probably most like the proposed build #2 in relation to heat). I've had mixed results from this, from epic to alright. As I have this mech balanced, I'm hesitant to change it right now... And as I would need the S CT for the build...

(I have none of these builds on Smurfy yet... sorry.)


As I more or less seem to have developed a specialization for more mid ranged areal combat... I'm thinking that the proposed build #2 probably would be a reasonable fit for me, if I ever saw need to use AMS. I probably should give it a try though, as it would help my teammates at least counter LRMs when possible... As for new players, I think it would also be a reasonably better fit for them because it can attack at those mid ranges offering more tactical flexibility.

So, where as you focused your Nova and your skills to more brawl related aspects, I've done a more mixed approach, and concentrated more on mid ranged combat with some moderate brawling when needed. I also seem to do very well in mixed loadout builds, and tend to realize my opponent's weakness and try to engage there, where I become stronger than they are in that role (despite being a mixed loadout).

Different aspects, different skill levels, different preferences. But, I'll remark that I still uphold and agree that your build is deadly in the right hands. I just don't believe that those hands are that of a new player.



I'll see if I can customize my S and give the suggested build a try. I can't do so for a while though, but maybe I can try tomorrow night? Either that or Monday...


Edit: Weapon groups would be in two groups for my additional proposal. ERLLs in one group, and ERSLs in a second group. It's very easy to manage and use (or at least my LPL version was). Just shoot the correct weapon in the right ranges and it should work well, with the occasional burst of all weapons even for a little while.

Edited by Tesunie, 27 January 2017 - 10:47 PM.