177 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 22 February 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

I've seen Adders murder things that are nearly twice their BV thanks to being able to call shots... but yes, generally speaking, like most Clan mechs they cost too much BV for what you get a lot of the time.

Oh I know, it's beautiful when that does happen, but then again, the H can do that as well though admittedly not near as well, but for the drop in BV it is more worth it. That is the reason I actually prefer the H over the Prime most of the time.

Bishop Steiner, on 22 February 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

eh, LRMs allow indirect fire. MPLs don't really provide anything the ERLLS don't beside their accuracy bonus, but I'd rather take out 10 pt chunks, even without the to hit bonus.

The indirect fire isn't a big deal to me when it is only an LRM10. The accuracy bonus is the reason I like MPLs though since they give more pause to short range oriented fast mechs like Lightrays, Wraiths, etc or fast TAG mechs (since artillery/semi-guided is very dangerous for larger targets).

Bishop Steiner, on 22 February 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

Alternately, drop the ERLLS AND MPLS, and pack 4 LPLs, 2 UAC5s. That would give you the CQB bonus of the MPLs, better damage, and range. Since you really cna't use the MPL and ERLLS together, anyhow.
DWF-PRIME

What's the BV on that, because that is the ultimate question? Granted that mech would also be considered fairly cheesy since cLPLs are ridiculous.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 22 February 2017 - 10:45 AM.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 February 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

What's the BV on that, because that is the ultimate question? Granted that mech would also be considered fairly cheesy since cLPLs are ridiculous.

Looks like she rings in at 2672 for BV a little expensive, but a lot more nasty...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 22 February 2017 - 10:53 AM, said:

Looks like she rings in at 2672 for BV a little expensive, but a lot more nasty...

The Prime is 2712, so you get more performance for less BV in the end.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 22 February 2017 - 10:58 AM.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 February 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

The Prime is 2712, so you get more performance for less BV in the end.

Such is the nature of optimization usually... To be fair though, I did use that left over 1t to get an extra DHS....

[LordMelvin]

It's a hard choice for me, but I think the single mech that I just had to have when I saw the art was the Mad Cat.



I love the way the mech looks and plays. I wish LRMs were more viable so I didn't feel terrible about bringing ears on mine.

[Rakshasa]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 February 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

Direwolf is of course more versatile, but aside from lobbing LRMs over walls, not much you can't accomplish with 4x CERPPCs.

Except being able to look your TT opponent in the eye after bringing a Cheesestar to the match (not 'you' specifically, just in general)

LordMelvin, on 22 February 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

It's a hard choice for me, but I think the single mech that I just had to have when I saw the art was the Mad Cat.



I love the way the mech looks and plays. I wish LRMs were more viable so I didn't feel terrible about bringing ears on mine.

Ears are mandatory for the authentic Madcat experience. Anything else is sadness and heresy

Edited by Rakshasa, 22 February 2017 - 12:10 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Rakshasa, on 22 February 2017 - 11:42 AM, said:

Except being able to look your TT opponent in the eye after lowering yourself to bringing a Cheesestar to the match

It really isn't that cheesy, ERPPC spam is far from the ranks of ERLL/LPL/Gauss/Arrow spam.

[Rakshasa]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 February 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:

It really isn't that cheesy, ERPPC spam is far from the ranks of ERLL/LPL/Gauss/Arrow spam.

Maybe, but there's something horribly soulless about the Hellstar's brand of cheese. It's a near-perfect mix of speed, armour, heat dispersal and damage efficiency, and yet somehow it just comes off as flavourless and overly-engineered to win. Others will feel differently, but that's how it's always grabbed me.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 February 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

The Prime is 2712, so you get more performance for less BV in the end.

Clan pulse laser bonus is with looking at, since the actually have good range. For IS, it's largely moot, in actual practice due to the medium and long range modifier.

The thing with the LRM option, is it's easy to upgrade to a 20, it 2 tens, whatever, for the mpl tonnage. As for the accuracy, that's largely siento beyond 4 hexes, due to range modifiers, whereas the erll is at short range of to 8? Hexes? So practical accuracy seems pretty situational, to me.

Plus 4x ERLL, 2x UAC5 and an LRM20, will burn down most fast mechs before they ever get to mpl range.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 February 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

As for the accuracy, that's largely siento beyond 4 hexes

Fair point, at that point you are just looking at a higher volume of damage thanks to being able to fire 3 MPL for the heat of one ERLL.

Rakshasa, on 22 February 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Maybe, but there's something horribly soulless about the Hellstar's brand of cheese. It's a near-perfect mix of speed, armour, heat dispersal and damage efficiency, and yet somehow it just comes off as flavourless and overly-engineered to win.

Optimized mechs aren't inherently cheesy, for example I wouldn't even consider the Black Python to be optimized but is still cheesy because well it is a 5/8/5 with 2 cLPL and a TComp while a Hellstar or something like an AWS-8Q or AWS-10KM are not considered cheesy despite being well optimized.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 22 February 2017 - 12:07 PM.

[Rakshasa]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 February 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

Optimized mechs aren't inherently cheesy, for example I wouldn't even consider the Black Python to be optimized but is still cheesy because well it is a 5/8/5 with 2 cLPL and a TComp.

I didn't say it was a rational dislike, it's just a TT bugbear of mine is all Also, didn't they update the rules to make it so pulse laser's don't work with targeting computers at some point?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Rakshasa, on 22 February 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

Also, didn't they update the rules to make it so pulse laser's don't work with targeting computers at some point?

As Metus mentioned, it is only aimed shots that pulse don't work with, they still get the to-hit bonus.

[Rakshasa]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 February 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

As Metus mentioned, it is only aimed shots that pulse don't work with, they still get the to-hit bonus.

Oho, I missed that, ty. Pulses + TComp is still rather unpleasant then

[Metus regem]

Rakshasa, on 22 February 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

Oho, I missed that, ty. Pulses + TComp is still rather unpleasant then

Yup... it makes the LPL or ERLPL depending on era of play a bit OP when combined with a TC....

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 February 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

The Prime is 2712, so you get more performance for less BV in the end.

DWF-PRIME
or for even more cheezy goodness....just add ECM in the missing ton.

BV? 2342.

How's that lactose intolerance doing?

[Bishop Steiner]

Rakshasa, on 22 February 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Maybe, but there's something horribly soulless about the Hellstar's brand of cheese. It's a near-perfect mix of speed, armour, heat dispersal and damage efficiency, and yet somehow it just comes off as flavourless and overly-engineered to win. Others will feel differently, but that's how it's always grabbed me.

if that were true, it wouldn't have lower arm actuators.....

as for cheeze, IDK, always felt dirtier running my 4 Gauss74 ERML, 300XL, 17.5 tons of armor Clan Annihilator. (12 DHS, 8 tons ammo).

The Hellstar is actually the same basic mech I used in MW3, my "greased lightning" ANH build. Just 5 tons lighter, and a bit more efficient engine weight.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 February 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

DWF-PRIME
or for even more cheezy goodness....just add ECM in the missing ton.

BV? 2342.

How's that lactose intolerance doing?

Meh, I prefer the 2 UAC5s over the UAC20, but I would take a Gauss over both. Or even better, a HAG.

[jper4]

urbie of course

honorable mention to hunchys and griffins...and blackjacks- those little baby jagermechs that they are.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 February 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:

Meh, I prefer the 2 UAC5s over the UAC20, but I would take a Gauss over both. Or even better, a HAG.

What about a RAC/5...

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 February 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:

Meh, I prefer the 2 UAC5s over the UAC20, but I would take a Gauss over both. Or even better, a HAG.

HAGs are nice but crit hogs, if I recall, which is hard to mix with the Heatsink needy lasers. Gauss is nice, but puts it back to a standoff weapon. This allows an 80 dmg dump with barely a glance at the heat gauge, and is meant for infighting and dueling.

Not as hard hitting as my traditional dueler, but probably better for a Grand Melee due to superior heat endurance.
This was my old clan invasion era dueling build, before Heavy Lasers, HAGs, etc were ever a thing
DWF-PRIME

Potentially toasty, but if it laid a full alpha into you, well, you probably were in a world of hurt. (2132 BV)

Metus regem, on 22 February 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

What about a RAC/5...

post TC, still potent, but not near as evil as they once were. Did love to use RAC2s though in MW4.