368 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

The initial cbill cost to skill up a mech went from 100% insane to 60% insane. Only 2 more PTS after the next one and we should be there. Lets aim for 100% sane.

The xp cost to respect each nodes(400) is way high(look at your average each match lol) but not seeing it live we dont reeally know. The skill changes seems to move things across many trees to make them harder to get with the effect to force people even more into taking the exact same thing than the last one and be even more generalised. So the cost might not bo so bad if we don't have any reason to respect ever. But we need to see it live.

[MidKnightReign]

So now that cooldown skill nodes are universal...how am I supposed to sync up the firing rate between my LB-X10 and my SRM4?

[Razor2323]

Looking great so far, good to see more testing going on.

As a side note good work PGI, youve really turned it around since the split.

[WarHippy]

Reno Blade, on 21 February 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:

How much XP do you have on any of your mastered mech now?
I am sitting on 20k minimum and used up some hundred$ worth of MC at some point for XP->GXP conversion when my favorites had over 100k XP after some months of playing the same mechs.

I think it's a good think that there is "some" small cost involved to have a XP sink.
Else there is NO use in the XP you have.

See it from the positive side:
Now you have use of the excess XP on a mastered mech and you don't feel "forced" to spend MC to convert it to GXP anymore.
More free for the F2P players, less reason to buy MC.

Shouldn't PGI want us to buy MC for things like that? I know for myself I would rather buy MC to do conversions than need to hold onto the MXP in case I ever want to respec.

Personally, while I think this patch in terms of costs in the skill tree is a big step in the right direction, but I feel they still have a long way to go. Respec should be free period. Under no circumstances should you ever lose time already spent, and that is exactly what is happening when you have to "re-buy" nodes even if it is at a discounted rate. I also think the initial c-bill cost is still way too high in particular for customers that have bought hundreds of mechs.

Edited by WarHippy, 21 February 2017 - 03:07 PM.

[PraetorGix]

Rhialto, on 20 February 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

Like Locust-1V ACCELERATION/DECELERATION RATE: 90.00 % will get to 0%? You can't do this... Can't imagine all Locust slowed down to all be the same. Same for many other light/medium Mechs.

I am thinking they will make all 20 ton bracket mechs to have Locust-like agility by default. The way I see it, the uber agility of a Locust comes from its tiny size, so as long as they implement this correctly every 20 tonner (including ofc Locust) would have the same size and mass, so they would move similarly.

[WildeKarde]

The lower costs to level a mech are good change, even the respec cost is ok.
If it's 72k xp to master a mech then it would have earned 3600gxp during that time or enough for 9 nodes to be respec'd

The mobility could be good as well but they will need to still review making every mech of the same tonnage the same mobility. Why look at anything but the mech with the most big guns since they are as mobile as each other then?

Potentially you make a lot of mechs redundant by making them all the same.

[Ravenlord]

Dee Eight, on 21 February 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

You've never actually read the terms of usa agreement for the game have you ?

2. Content. We may, from time to time at our sole discretion and without notice or liability, create, amend, change, or delete any content from the PGI Offerings.

Be thankful they ran this thru the PTS first. They actually didn't have to.

And? That they have this paragraph doesn't mean they should make use of it or that it is a smart move to do so. If they don't want my money any more, by all means, slap a price tag on literally everything.

One of the things I really like about MWO, apart from it being, you know, Mechwarrior, is specifically that it ISN'T such an enormous grindfest as many other f2p games.
If they want to change that they are of course free to do so, but they should be aware that this could very well mean that people like me will be carrying their money elsewhere in the future.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Nice iteration choice. I look forwards to seeing these changes in action. Especially without an event also going on at the same time.

[Zombie Gandhi]

Something I would be curious to see, if it's in game, would be a build planner of sorts. Similar to how we already have the testing range for mechs we build, have something added to that, to let us test these various skill swaps prior to purchase. While I understand the need to ensure there's some manner of grind (for MC purchases, premium time, etc), I think some measure of in game testing that wouldn't charge the player the fee, would be handy.

That said, I'm sure smurfy's will have something with the spreadsheet so you can at least see numerically what you're dealing with. While not actually as good as putting hands on, it may be some method to help theorycraft without dropping CBills and XP, until you're sure.

edit for stupid fingers.

Edited by Zombie Gandhi, 21 February 2017 - 03:34 PM.

[Mr Chuckles]

While I was playing this server, I felt as if they gave you too many points for your mech. I would much rather have it so you buff the nodes and reduce the skill points, and make you decide between mobility, firepower, survivability, etc. Now ofc not just one area, but don't make it so you can have both firepower and survivability, with mobility on the side. It would be a nice change, and I would think it fosters more creativity, specialization, and decision making than simply "broad mech buffs" that every mech has.

[DAYLEET]

MidKnightReign, on 21 February 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

So now that cooldown skill nodes are universal...how am I supposed to sync up the firing rate between my LB-X10 and my SRM4?

Just learn the longest cooldown i guess. I know i liked to sync ml with lpl but really it doesnt matter much.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Quote

Disassociating ‘Mech Mobility Attributes from Engine Ratings

I can't stress how huge this is. This was one of the changes I've been advocating for forever. Mounting a large XL engine no longer gives you better torso twist rates than a smaller STD, which was one of the main reasons why STDs are so underused.

For the skill tree you also fixed its biggest issue, namely boating being further incentivized, this change alone already makes the skill tree better than the module system. The next thing I would ask for is reducing the number of max skills you can take, 91 is simply too much (although you guys didn't specify if that's changing considering the combined firepower tree).

[Felicitatem Parco]

Gentleman Reaper, on 21 February 2017 - 04:21 PM, said:

I can't stress how huge this is. This was one of the changes I've been advocating for forever. Mounting a large XL engine no longer gives you better torso twist rates than a smaller STD, which was one of the main reasons why STDs are so underused.

For the skill tree you also fixed its biggest issue, namely boating being further incentivized, this change alone already makes the skill tree better than the module system. The next thing I would ask for is reducing the number of max skills you can take, 91 is simply too much (although you guys didn't specify if that's changing considering the combined firepower tree).

I'm not really hung up on the 91 points the because the old skill ladder had so many points-worth of skills... Although there were fewer skills, the "double basics" counts as many points-worth of skills and the extra module slot unlocked points-worth of module slots...

To be honest, I am surprised that so few people are complaining about their inability to fill all the nodes to the last one...

[SuperFunkTron]

WarHippy, on 21 February 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

Shouldn't PGI want us to buy MC for things like that? I know for myself I would rather buy MC to do conversions than need to hold onto the MXP in case I ever want to respec.

Personally, while I think this patch in terms of costs in the skill tree is a big step in the right direction, but I feel they still have a long way to go. Respec should be free period. Under no circumstances should you ever lose time already spent, and that is exactly what is happening when you have to "re-buy" nodes even if it is at a discounted rate. I also think the initial c-bill cost is still way too high in particular for customers that have bought hundreds of mechs.

I think the only thing that is too high here are your expectations of what you should be getting for free. Considering the "modules" alone that you will be getting in the new system justifies some c-bill cost. The fact that these are upgrades is another basis for there being a cost. And when you respec, you are not losing time to anything, you are spending a currency that allows you the ability to continue to adjust upgrades to your mechs.

Reduced c-bill and XP initial costs with even lower XP respec costs without c-bills is more than fair. The extra c-bills will go toward weapons, equipment and new mechs, while XP will finally have a value once a mech is maxed out.

If you really are as concerned as you seem, don't invest XP into weapons trees until you figure out what you want to keep on that mech. With all the c-bills you save in the new iteration, you could put that toward buying another mech and customizing the new one differently. It's extra work, but if you're playing for free, some benefit has to remain for those who pay to shorten their grind.

[Katastrophy Kid]

I'm disappointed in the decision to dumb down the firepower tree. I have multiple copies of the same Mech variant that I'd like to spec for different weapon load-outs, i.e. AC20s v.s. Ultra AC5s v.s. Gauss Rifles. I hope that there is at least weapon specific "Mastery Skill Points" added that allow a player to upgrade a single weapon type, like ERLL for example. An all encompassing firepower tree feels overly simplified, like what Blizzard did to WOW.

[Ravenlord]

SuperFunkTron, on 21 February 2017 - 04:52 PM, said:

I think the only thing that is too high here are your expectations of what you should be getting for free. Considering the "modules" alone that you will be getting in the new system justifies some c-bill cost. The fact that these are upgrades is another basis for there being a cost. And when you respec, you are not losing time to anything, you are spending a currency that allows you the ability to continue to adjust upgrades to your mechs.

Reduced c-bill and XP initial costs with even lower XP respec costs without c-bills is more than fair. The extra c-bills will go toward weapons, equipment and new mechs, while XP will finally have a value once a mech is maxed out.

If you really are as concerned as you seem, don't invest XP into weapons trees until you figure out what you want to keep on that mech. With all the c-bills you save in the new iteration, you could put that toward buying another mech and customizing the new one differently. It's extra work, but if you're playing for free, some benefit has to remain for those who pay to shorten their grind.

I don't think he is playing for free, nor am I. That's exactly the point. People with lots of mechs generally spent lots of money on mech bays and also mech paks and also already invested a considerable amount of time into mastering them and outfitting them with modules. And then they were able to change them up however they damn well pleased without any extra cost and how often they wanted. So of course with the new system you are losing all that time you invested to master and spec your mech when you want to respec and it hits poke mech collectors like myself that like to change their builds often and have lots of mechs by far the hardest.

Incidentally those poke mech collectors are probably first among those that spent MOST on the game and are far from playing for free. We don't have high expectations to get lots of stuff for free, our only expectation is to not be stolen what we already achieved and being made to pay (with our money or time) for it over and over again just because we actually like to use it and change it up from time to time. That is basically like buying some lego bricks and building a house with it, and when you want to disassemble it and build a spaceship instead you have to pay a fee to lego for every brick you reposition.

Edited by Ravenlord, 21 February 2017 - 05:44 PM.

[Kell Morgan]

TY FOR LISTENING! That economy is MUCH better! 100,000 per was brutal. and the removal of skill points makes more sense!

It makes more sense for upgrading to be based more around exp rather than money. You don't automatically get better at something by throwing money at it... lol

[Racersky]

well do not worry, I am sure PGI will figure it out...but on the brighter side of things, they do have some new mechs for you to purchase!

[SuperFunkTron]

Ravenlord, on 21 February 2017 - 05:37 PM, said:

Incidentally those poke mech collectors are probably first among those that spent MOST on the game and are far from playing for free. We don't have high expectations to get lots of stuff for free, our only expectation is to not be stolen what we already achieved and being made to pay (with our money or time) for it over and over again just because we actually like to use it and change it up from time to time. That is basically like buying some lego bricks and building a house with it, and when you want to disassemble it and build a spaceship instead you have to pay a fee to lego for every brick you reposition.

I must be looking at it from a completely different perspective because I don't agree. I think a more apt metaphor is taking your car to the shop and upgrading it. You get tires specific to the type of road and race you will be in, you get a turbo or supercharger depending on your needs, other modifications etc. If you want to move those parts around, it requires either your time to make the changes or paying someone to change those parts, even if you already own them. I can sympathize with your loss as I too have spent a good amount of cash in the game and will likely be unable to master all of my mechs in the new system, but I see it as a challenge in the new system and will not be upset in the least by not being able to fully upgrade mechs that I don't regularly use right away.

[Wintersdark]

MidKnightReign, on 21 February 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

So now that cooldown skill nodes are universal...how am I supposed to sync up the firing rate between my LB-X10 and my SRM4?

Just... fire them together?

I mean, it's terrible and all that instead of just your SRM's firing faster, both fire faster, but you could choose to just pretend your LBX's DON'T fire faster and then everything works out just fine... except you can fire the LBX even faster than before. That's a terrible thing to get for free, I know.