91 replies to this topic

[Magik Jack]

Danjo San, on 08 March 2017 - 06:09 AM, said:

It's a choice they made and they paid for that over the course of their pilot career the same amount you will have to pay for it with the proposed change!

Whatever way you wish to spin it, we can't dance around the fact that the move from a the old system to the new--despite its agreed benefits discussed here--takes away from players who are not veterans and not space rich with cbills, and, as a result, they cannot spec their mechs to the same level they once could, but in fact find their mechs held for ransom behind a cbillwall to get back what they had. Even some prominent youtubers for MWO are voicing concern over this, for several reasons, including how it will affect future player numbers and those still wanting to play, and many of them have been around since beta.

The fact is many of these mechs will be those who people have paid real money for, had leveled already, but are now held for ransom and behind a grindwall that will be months if not years if the current system went live tomorrow. Does that seem sensible from a developers point of view? No, and it am sure that PGI will either scrap this system altogether or figure out a way to at least payout to players for the xp spent on mechs so that players can at least spec their mechs for those first 50 nodes, leaving the argument about modules aside for now. If I were to put cbills on it, though, while I still have some, I would bet on the former option being more likely.

Edited by Captain Hawkins, 08 March 2017 - 09:13 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Dogstar, on 08 March 2017 - 01:59 AM, said:

I think that they should do away with the refund for modules, then let's see how those grinders wail about it!

I think those "grinders" would simply leave after getting shown the middle finger.

I am not sure if not some peeps with a lot of mechs simply call it quits because they never ever can get enough CBs to master their mechs. After all they bought mechbays etc for them. Which they wouldn't have, had the new system been in place right away or at least sooner.

Oh, and for people like you, who stoop so low as to wish others something bad, the awakening would come sooner or later as well when those who spend a lot of money are gone.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 08 March 2017 - 10:35 AM.

[Dogstar]

>the awakening would come sooner or later as well when those who spend a lot of money are gone.
Yes! That's the whole point I'm trying to get across, if PGI loses a big chunk of paying players the game could shut down! But a lot of people on here are so complacent about this point that they need to be woken up.

That's why skill costs need to be much more reasonable.

[R Valentine]

Bush Hopper, on 08 March 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

I think those "grinders" would simply leave after getting shown the middle finger.

I am not sure if not some peeps with a lot of mechs simply call it quits because they never ever can get enough CBs to master their mechs. After all they bought mechbays etc for them. Which they wouldn't have, had the new system been in place right away or at least sooner.

Oh, and for people like you, who stoop so low as to wish others something bad, the awakening would come sooner or later as well when those who spend a lot of money are gone.

None of those are good things one way or the other, so what's your point? The game, and the player base, both suffer in either scenario. Why you talk about that like it's a good thing is just beyond me.

[Weeny Machine]

Kiran Yagami, on 08 March 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

None of those are good things one way or the other, so what's your point? The game, and the player base, both suffer in either scenario. Why you talk about that like it's a good thing is just beyond me.

Quite the opposite. I was replying to another person who thinks it a good idea to do that and I just depicted the possible consequences.

I think the skill tree costs are okish if you buy new mechs etc. However, PGI should give an amount of CBs for each already mastered mech so that you can get your old stable back to the old status

[Fetherator]

@Dogstar
In the End it is: One gets what one payed for.

Your Case: 5 Years of MWO
You bought hundreds of Mechs. Lets presume they are all mastered, with good Loadouts but Modules switched across.
You enjoyed playin all your Mechs at its Max.
Because you switched 9 Modules across, you could save cbills.
In PTS:
Now you can Master about 8 Mechs with the refund from about 9 Modules.
All other Mechs are still playable but without enough cbills to get Skillpoints.


My Case: 5 Years of MWO
I bought about 35 Mechs (remember rule of 3), sold some because of Mechbay shortage, all Mastered, rebuild loadouts sometimes and finaly bought needed Modules instead of switching.
I enjoyed playing my 23 fully equipped Mechs.
Because i didnt want my team to wait 4 me searching modules, I couldnt save cbills. So i bought a totaly of 120 Modules.

In PTS:
Now I can Master all my Mechs, because i payed for every Module i needed.
Still i dont have more then those 23 Mechs, and switching loadouts will cost me some XP for the Skilltree


Conclusion:
You get about 8 Mechs fully Mastered and 112 in Stock
I get 23 Mechs fully Mastered and 0 in Stock

My Opinion:
I can understand what is troubling you. And Yes maybe PGI should in some Way compensate that.
Maybe PGI should let every mastered Mech get skilled free ONE time, so everyone should be ok.

[C E Dwyer]

People keep saying we need a C-bill sink, maybe we do, maybe we don't, I personally don't see why it's needed, it's not going to make the game play any different.

Unlike MMORPG's there are no raids, no magical +5 Sword of Cut your nuts off and feed them to my cat, and no Market Place to spend 27 million buying one.

What a C-bill price added to the X.P price of nodes does do, is make the gap between established players and newbies a lot wider, a lot less fun for them, and makes it more likely they won't hang around.

[Baulven]

Nodes need to drop down to 20k each and maybe a quarter off of the XP. Nodes need to be a single purchase, and respect fees need to be about 100k. That means most people can respect at worst after a few matches if they do not like their new build. Forcing people to play in manners that aren't fun simply because they do not live the grind is a terrible choice.

[Danjo San]

Cathy, on 08 March 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

People keep saying we need a C-bill sink, maybe we do, maybe we don't, I personally don't see why it's needed, it's not going to make the game play any different.

when you buy mechpacks like i do, and you have a suffiecient amount of tech lying around, engines, weapons, etc. what else was I supposed to put my c-bills into other than modules. then when modules become obsolete what will remain to keep me at bay? my mechbays are maxed out, where should my cash go?

I also have a player in my unit who has been playing since I have, we started together, but other than me, all the money he spent on this game was a couple of bucks to buy a few mechbays. other than that he has been grinding F2P all the way. now he has a set of 30-40 mechs, all mastered all moduled. and that is all F2P if he gets another mechbay or enough mc from events to purchase another he will do so and then where do his cbills go? they go to one more mech and loadout and modules... simple as that! it's not only the big spenders that have more than enough modules lying around. veteran f2p players do so as well....

[oldradagast]

This new proposed economy is catastrophic to the game.

Some have defended it by claiming that since you only need 1 mech vs. 3, it's cheaper when comparing the costs in the two systems for 1 mech vs. 3. OK, that may be true, but NOBODY plays a game like this to have 1 mech. On a mech by mech basis, it is considerably more expensive. That means more grind and tedium. Worse, a good chunk of the grind you've already achieved is basically flushed away so you'll be grinding for months or years to get your mechs fully leveled again.

And what does fully leveled mean now? Well, after slogging through the horrible skill maze - a steaming pile of false choices seasoned with a horrible UI - you still end up with mechs that perform worse than they do today AND there are no roles or anything else really interesting or fun to be found.

So, to be clear, we get to grind more to get less... and that doesn't even touch the mobility nerfs and removal of powerful quirks that will kill most of the mechs in the game and reduce MWO to long-range snipe-fests since you can't brawl if you're not mobile.

Amid all this, why would anyone have any need to spend a dime on this game after the skill maze goes live? I don't need 3 of a kind mechs anymore, and the game's servers will probably be turned off before I can remaster all the mechs I have. Unless the plan is to go hard-core "pay to win" with new tech and stuff, there's no real reason to spend money if these changes are made - and if they do go "pay to win," I'd quit spending money on principle at that point.

Junk - the skill maze is utter junk.

Edited by oldradagast, 08 March 2017 - 04:14 PM.

[Kali Rinpoche]

Based on today announcement of the shutdown of PTS with no mention of costs being addressed, i'm undecided if I want to continue playing after 3 years.

My Numbers:

256 mechs (all mastered)& 2 mech packs on the way.
256 x 5,400,000 = 1,382,400,000
544,000,000 = my current Cbill bank
380,000,000 = Refund of modules
(-458,4000,000) = Amount I will have to re-earn to get back to game functionality.

At 160,000 average match, I'll have to play 2,865 matches to break even.
Playing 20 Matches per day, I won't be able to buy another cbill mech for 143 days.

My whale spending is over. I may ask for a refund on my 2 up coming mech packs.

[Kali Rinpoche]

Captain Hawkins, on 08 March 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

Whatever way you wish to spin it, we can't dance around the fact that the move from a the old system to the new--despite its agreed benefits discussed here--takes away from players who are not veterans and not space rich with cbills, and, as a result, they cannot spec their mechs to the same level they once could, but in fact find their mechs held for ransom behind a cbillwall to get back what they had. Even some prominent youtubers for MWO are voicing concern over this, for several reasons, including how it will affect future player numbers and those still wanting to play, and many of them have been around since beta.

Well said!

[50 50]

Cathy, on 08 March 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

People keep saying we need a C-bill sink, maybe we do, maybe we don't, I personally don't see why it's needed, it's not going to make the game play any different.

Unlike MMORPG's there are no raids, no magical +5 Sword of Cut your nuts off and feed them to my cat, and no Market Place to spend 27 million buying one.

What a C-bill price added to the X.P price of nodes does do, is make the gap between established players and newbies a lot wider, a lot less fun for them, and makes it more likely they won't hang around.

Hey, I like that sword. It's awesome.


Faction Play is where we can add some c-bill sinks as essentially that is the MWO equivalent of raids.
Would love to see that mode evolve more.

I can understand why there is a c-bill cost for the skills to make up for the removal of the modules, but in the end I don't know if it is needed.
I think that if the nodes did not have a c-bill cost and we only paid XP for them we would all get back to where we are right now plus have c-bills a plenty from the refund.
I can imagine that it is a bit of a concern to suddenly have players with massive bank balances, but what would this actually do for the game?
Maybe players will suddenly buy a bunch of mechs they were saving up for with those c-bills.
Maybe a few unit coffers will get fatter.
Maybe players will get a bunch of engine and modifications for their mechs that they were saving for.

There will of course be players who don't need to spend it and they will sit there like King Tut.
So what.
We could do worse.

Might be an ideal time to introduce some other features that require c-bills and drain those coffers.
A logistics cost to take mechs into a Faction Play battle would be the top of my suggestions.

Edited by 50 50, 08 March 2017 - 05:42 PM.

[Kali Rinpoche]

Quote

Maybe players will suddenly buy a bunch of mechs they were saving up for with those c-bills.
Maybe a few unit coffers will get fatter.
Maybe players will get a bunch of engine and modifications for their mechs that they were saving for.

All of which would be positives. Maybe even spur Mech Bay sales b/c of the added cash bringing in more revenue.

Edited by Kali Rinpoche, 08 March 2017 - 05:49 PM.

[oldradagast]

Kali Rinpoche, on 08 March 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

All of which would be positives. Maybe even spur Mech Bay sales b/c of the added cash bringing in more revenue.

PGI is still laboring under the crackpot and obsolete gaming notion that you need to keep players poor so they keep grinding. But once players realize the amount of effort it will take to get back to mastery on the mechs (and they'll still suck compared to where they are now), they'll just quit.

You need to give people a reason to buy things. Making players poor and having it be slow, confusing, and boring process to grind up mechs is the exact OPPOSITE of that idea.

[Quintus Verus]

oldradagast, on 08 March 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

PGI is still laboring under the crackpot and obsolete gaming notion that you need to keep players poor so they keep grinding. But once players realize the amount of effort it will take to get back to mastery on the mechs (and they'll still suck compared to where they are now), they'll just quit.

You need to give people a reason to buy things. Making players poor and having it be slow, confusing, and boring process to grind up mechs is the exact OPPOSITE of that idea.

This is my thoughts also. I don't want to spend months of grinding to just recover what took years to earn. It's not like and MMORG where your raiding gear goes obsolete with every expansion. If you're in raiding gear, you earn more in-game cash from grinding and earn your armor drops from new raids. PGI has just made its high end players into middle level noobies again and is forcing them to blow all of their cash to "buy back" what they already have.

The cost is so frustrating that I don't want to really play anymore.

[Skribs]

If PGI resets my work of leveling, I am most likely out.

Best case I keep playing and don't buy much new because I'm regrinding CBills to level up what I already had levelled up.

[QuePan]

Captain Hawkins, on 08 March 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

Maybe you only play 10 mechs, but some of us play in groupplay with teams where using tonnage up requires that you have mechs from all classes pimped and ready to roll, and ideally several for each 5 or 10 tons of weight difference with multiple loadouts on different variants for different styles of play (gasp! yes, some of us play brawlers, snipers, poptarts, and even lights all in one game session. Wasn't that a great thing about this game? My bad, I guess.)

That aside, the elephant in the room for many of us newer players is how can we recommend this game for other new players? It was a hellgrind before this newly proposed system, where you needed a cbill financial advisor to keep from f****** yourself over early on. Now a new player has to worry about buying weapons, engines, mechs, AND SKILLS. If PGI wants new players to keep this game alive this is not going to help. To boot, as someone mentioned before, I like having cbills around for buying new mechs or variants I didn't buy with money in the packs.

On top of this, some of us were thrifty and moved modules around (not buying them and leaving them in the mechs). So we will not be getting that great a refund, I think I will get maybe 40 million cbills back, and I have around 40 mastered mechs needing 5.5 million each. Yikes.

this is exactly my point as well , when i do group play i have no issue with the current system to play any mech weight to fit the groups size , i may have to swap a couple of mods , but big bang boom im ready to role , this is the kind of play i focused my purchases on , from mechpacks to buying bays and mechs directly . with the new skill system if i play like this i will be at a disadvantage big time cuz i wont have the cbills to outfit the variety of mechs at the level of play i do currently that's the bold truth of it .

[Kali Rinpoche]

QuePan, on 09 March 2017 - 05:35 PM, said:

With the new skill system if i play like this i will be at a disadvantage big time cuz i wont have the cbills to outfit the variety of mechs at the level of play i do currently that's the bold truth of it .

And this will reduce your desire to play the way you enjoy.

[oldradagast]

Quintus Verus, on 09 March 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

This is my thoughts also. I don't want to spend months of grinding to just recover what took years to earn. It's not like and MMORG where your raiding gear goes obsolete with every expansion. If you're in raiding gear, you earn more in-game cash from grinding and earn your armor drops from new raids. PGI has just made its high end players into middle level noobies again and is forcing them to blow all of their cash to "buy back" what they already have.

The cost is so frustrating that I don't want to really play anymore.

I think you should have said "it's not CURRENTLY like an MMORG, where your raiding gear goes obsolete with every expansion.

Drop the skill maze on people, shove new tech into the mess, make all the old mechs basically obsolete, and then sell lots more new mechs since people need their mech fix. Then, change the skill maze regularly to try to reap premium time sales. Seems like a new business model to me.