90 replies to this topic

[WolvesX]

-snip-

E: I listen to the podcast first and after it post again.

---

OK, so they really NERF all that stuff into the ground for a FUTURE update making them unplayable now, that is smart...

Look at this feedback! The biggest feedback thread:

https://mwomercs.com...erformers-pts3/

Edited by WolvesX, 10 March 2017 - 05:27 PM.

[Wyald Katt]

I'll pay whatever C-bill cost that makes YOU happy if you use So1ahma's proposed skill set up.

[Dagada Moor]

Russ,
Thank you for the reduced cost of nodes in skill tree.

[N0ni]

109 "ready to master" mechs out of 138 is not good enough, keep lowering it.

[Kanil]

All I want is for my currently mastered 'mechs to still be mastered. You don't even have to refund me any C-Bills, just figure out a system where I can keep what I currently have, and I'll consider it fine. 100k a node and a free remastery of anything currently mastered would have been acceptable.

Right now, this more or less puts me back where I currently am, so that's fine with me -- thank you.

[Zergling]

Praise Blake/Jesus/Celestia/<insert Deity or Significant Figure Name Here>!!!

[Elizander]

1453 R, on 10 March 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

Good to hear from you on the forums, Russ. May I ask why the worry over the economy? MWO does not have a dynamic economy as such, there's no concern over a flood like this devaluing player trading as there is no player trading. Yes, some players will have vastly more C-bills than they ever need and be able to avoid spending money on 'Mech packs, but that's also the case now, and the timed exclusivity of 'Mech packs, as well as the pre-order/early adopter bonuses, have proven to be a fairly strong purchasing incentive thus far. The C-bill cost for purchasing nodes, in this particular case, is a permanent solution for a temporary problem, and will punish players who come in after the Skill Tree goes live, as they have no module-generated buffer of C-bills to purchase their skills with. Are there any plans to ameliorate this cost once the initial rush dies off and you've succeeded in your goal of absorbing the module refund glut as per your economic concerns?

I'm supposing there is a fear that people who wait for c-bill releases instead of buying pre-orders might be prevalent in the even that people suddenly have bajillion c-bills on hand, but these are extreme cases to be honest. I've been around awhile and I won't be earning a ton of money from modules.

I think that instead of looking at the big total they should instead check out averages and segment the active player base based on how much average c-bills each player will receive per bracket of wealth that they determine. PGI has always been worried about c-bill sinks since the early days when people had 100m c-bills stocked.

Without their data though we'd mostly just be wild guessing what effective sinks would be since we don't know what segment needs targeting and how large it is. We also don't know their spending habits.

[Unnatural Growth]

Russ,

Actually setting foot on your own forums is a good start. I think you need to do much more of this, it will only help your player base feel more connected to you and what direction you're going.

However, at 45,000 Cbills per skill point, it will cost me 372,645,000 Cbills to fully spec out my 91 mechs I currently own. That's between 3500 and 4000 matches to earn. And that's not even talking about the XP grind. That's still unacceptable. Unless your game "economy" is going to get a *profound* increase in Cbills earnings.

[GrimRiver]

C-bills and xp was made to be spent.

If you don't wanna spend that then use real money, if you don't wanna use real money then don't play any game that uses ingame currency because chances are you'll hate those too.

Honestly what do people expect to do with c-bills/xp?

45,000 c-bills per node is dirt dirt dirt cheap, I can earn 50,000 c-bills just by standing in one spot whole game firing only a medium lasers at the ground. /sarcasm

The point I'm trying to make is, if you can't even earn 50,000+ c-bills per match then MWO might not be the game for you. /sorrybutnotsorry

Blah blah blah 20,000 clicks, you already click an insane amount in a match and I don't hear people crying about that and you don't even wanna know how many clicks it took you just to search the internet.

The system isn't perfect, I know this, you know this and PGI knows this, they even said that they do in the podcast.

People is just gonna have to accept change, the very principle of the universe is based on that (change).

This was meant for those in general that complain just for complaining sake^

Edited by GrimRiver, 10 March 2017 - 08:12 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

Andi Nagasia, on 10 March 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Skill Tree Node Cost reduced to 45,000 or less C-Bill cost!

Russ says it may come down abit more,

=0=(Link to Pod Cast HERE)=0=

(more info will come as i get it from the Stream)
(Pod Cast Is Now Over)

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Who cares. It still takes MY time to respec. Your time might not be that valuable but mine is.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Ted Wayz, on 10 March 2017 - 08:17 PM, said:

Who cares. It still takes MY time to respec. Your time might not be that valuable but mine is.

You mean "spec."

You never spec'ed your Mechs before.

[Mcgral18]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 10 March 2017 - 04:45 PM, said:

C-Bills aren't my only concern, XP is as well.

Reducing the c-bill cost by 25% is definitely better though.

I don't remember how many nodes are on the tree total (160+ or something like that?) and the XP to unlock all of them is definitely concerning.

XP wise...I'm not sure I care


How much was it per node?
1500 according to random notes, which is 1 node per win, or about 3 matches for bad losses?

Good match netting 2...let's say 100 matches to level a robot?
Yeah, you may have a point, on second thought.


But, as I only enjoy a half dozen robots, I'll have no issues. Apparently I have ~ 10 cERML range mods...that's my robots leveled right there.

[Gattsus]

Russ Bullock, on 10 March 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

Hey guys.

Just wanted to re-iterate that we can't refund many hundreds of billions of cbills back into the economy without a one time initial Cbill cost per node.

Still looking at data to come up with the right number. It's at 45k atm and that works well for most players, but looking to improve edge cases.

Hands off my cbills.

[xe N on]

We should try to stay constructive rather than destructive.

@ DEVs: Please read the following proposed solution:

Currently mechs are improved by investing XP into mech skills and CBill into modules.

The new skill system combines both. The idea behind this is not that bad. The problem is clearly the transition between the old system and the new system.

Currently you can master a mech without equipping any module and vise versa. For example, a mech that currently is mastered and does not use any modules will not have the same "status of improvements" with the new skill system as currently. It takes CBills to get the former skills back.

So, a 1:1 transition from the old system to the new system is not fair by only providing CBills for modules. Player that didn't buy modules loose a major invest in their mechs.

Decreasing the costs for the skill nodes of the new system cannot be the solution, because for a player that didn't buy modules it will be in any case a loss.

Solution 1:
According to the amount of XP accumulated with the mech a amount of Cbill is given to the player up to a total of XP necessary to formerly fully master the mech. This would allow players, that mastered their mechs but didn't buy modules to compensate.

Example: The amount of CBill for a currently fully mastered mech could be set with a value that is high enough to skill half of the nodes in the new skill system.

Solution 2:
Set the costs for unlocking a node for existing mechs for the first time after the patch to 0 CBill.

Edited by xe N on, 10 March 2017 - 10:44 PM.

[jjm1]

When Russ said the MWO community doesn't like change it made me think of this.



Seems like a good analogy for the whole process.

[TheMadTypist]

Russ Bullock, on 10 March 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

Hey guys.

Just wanted to re-iterate that we can't refund many hundreds of billions of cbills back into the economy without a one time initial Cbill cost per node.

Still looking at data to come up with the right number. It's at 45k atm and that works well for most players, but looking to improve edge cases.

I don't care about the cost per node so much now, it's annoying but whatever, I'll probably wind up ignoring the full depth of the skill system like I currently ignore modules and consumables.

But that line of reasoning? You're building part of the game's ongoing economy around a one-time event? That seems wrong. It's one thing to tax established players, it's another to tar-pit newbies because of a history they weren't involved in.

Edit: To clarify, I'm fine with the system having an associated cost. I'm not really okay with the stated reason for it.

Edited by TheMadTypist, 10 March 2017 - 11:13 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

GrimRiver, on 10 March 2017 - 08:07 PM, said:

C-bills and xp was made to be spent.

If you don't wanna spend that then use real money, if you don't wanna use real money then don't play any game that uses ingame currency because chances are you'll hate those too.

Honestly what do people expect to do with c-bills/xp?

45,000 c-bills per node is dirt dirt dirt cheap, I can earn 50,000 c-bills just by standing in one spot whole game firing only a medium lasers at the ground. /sarcasm

The point I'm trying to make is, if you can't even earn 50,000+ c-bills per match then MWO might not be the game for you. /sorrybutnotsorry

Blah blah blah 20,000 clicks, you already click an insane amount in a match and I don't hear people crying about that and you don't even wanna know how many clicks it took you just to search the internet.

The system isn't perfect, I know this, you know this and PGI knows this, they even said that they do in the podcast.

People is just gonna have to accept change, the very principle of the universe is based on that (change).

This was meant for those in general that complain just for complaining sake^

C-Bills are for equipment, including 'mechs
XP is for skills

Welcome to almost every game.

Plus, we know PGI doesn't want to compare the skill tree to RPGs becaase "this isn't WOW" (is that the right quote?), so we can safely ignore any RPG that has a cost for leveling.

But, alas, here we are. I'll adapt, as will most people. Doesn't mean I have to like it or think it's in any way a good idea.

[Appogee]

OldOrgandonor, on 10 March 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Russ,

Actually setting foot on your own forums is a good start.

He came, he posted, he left.

This is not a place for two-way communication with PGI.

It is a place to receive pronouncements, and then talk among ourselves.

[Jay Leon Hart]

So I watched some (about half, from the middle) of the podcast this morning. They kept repeating "well, you spend C-Bills on modules now, that's why nodes cost C-Bills" or words to that effect.

So here's a proposal;

- Only the Firepower/Weapons, Sensors/Sensor Systems and Auxiliary/Miscellaneous trees have C-Bills cost for their nodes.
- Increase the cost of these to 500k - 2.5m (so like changing Endo/Ferro/Artemis - high cost, but not *too* high).
- Free respecs and the XP cost for new and previously purchased nodes remain the same.

This retains most of the status quo - you're only paying C-Bills for things that used to cost C-Bills, so nothing really changes. It becomes even more of a choice to pick up that extra Seismic Sensor, or UAV Duration, or Velocity node.

Deal?

[L3mming2]

Russ Bullock, on 10 March 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

Hey guys.

Just wanted to re-iterate that we can't refund many hundreds of billions of cbills back into the economy without a one time initial Cbill cost per node.

Still looking at data to come up with the right number. It's at 45k atm and that works well for most players, but looking to improve edge cases.

i'm not saying i like it but you do have a point there...