236 replies to this topic

[Lupis Volk]

Kaeb Odellas, on 14 March 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

I want the new skill tree to come out when it's goddamn good and ready. The last PTS version was not even close.

Yep, but the salty, salty white knights conveniently forget that part.

heck they've forgotten that PGI and Russ himself have said that they are not scrapping the skill tree. They are wanting to put it in. But hey why let facts get in the way of a good salt parade.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Lupis Volk, on 15 March 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

Yep, but the salty, salty white knights conveniently forget that part.

heck they've forgotten that PGI and Russ himself have said that they are not scrapping the skill tree. They are wanting to put it in. But hey why let facts get in the way of a good salt parade.

They said they wern't scrapping the last two things they scrapped too... yet they did.

[Scout Derek]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 15 March 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

They said they wern't scrapping the last two things they scrapped too... yet they did.

That's because people absolutely hated the guts of the previous mechanics... tell me, who liked InfoTech at the point that they designed it? All those values... they gave me a headache.

And then the new Heat Management....? Yeah, no.

everyone likes the new skill tree; we don't want it to go away. We want clear issues that can be fixed, fixed. But if they don't fix it then don't put it in, or we all suffer.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Scout Derek, on 15 March 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

That's because people absolutely hated the guts of the previous mechanics... tell me, who liked InfoTech at the point that they designed it? All those values... they gave me a headache.

And then the new Heat Management....? Yeah, no.

everyone likes the new skill tree; we don't want it to go away. We want clear issues that can be fixed, fixed. But if they don't fix it then don't put it in, or we all suffer.

actually a lot of people liked most of what was in InfoWar... they just didn't like ghostrange.

[Scout Derek]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 15 March 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

actually a lot of people liked most of what was in InfoWar... they just didn't like ghostrange.

so you actually liked the idea of if you weren't targeting an enemy you'd do less damage?

okay....

[Lupis Volk]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 15 March 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

They said they wern't scrapping the last two things they scrapped too... yet they did.

Ah yes but did Daddy Russy-poo~ take a stand and say without a doubt that they won't be scrapped no matter what? Because i know he did with the Skill tree.

[SuomiWarder]

I'm sorry, but I cannot take with any seriousness comments about a game of war robots from someone with a pony signature tag.

[Sandslice]

Here's the thing. I think people do want an update to the pilot skill system; and even if it's a skill maze or a ten-years-ago "multiple points in a node" tree, people just want it to make sense --- and to at least do what it claims to do.

1. The tree as of PTS-closing was not going to shake up The Meta; it was going to reinforce it, thanks to how cheap the PPC+Gauss optimization is compared to every alternative. You simply don't raise TTK by making the source of low TTK more attractive to buy into.

2. Choices are being forced that make no sense. For example, I don't know whoall noticed, but uncoupled arm movement is good enough (on mechs that even CAN do so!) to where arm-speed skill nodes are pure taxes - nodes that gate massive portions of the Mobility tree (including Speed Tweak in both directions) with no benefit whatsoever.
Similarly, derp is gated by target decay - which means that derp is only offsetting the decay that has been taken.

3. There are problems with aspects of the layout itself. Why is Narc part of auxilary, when it's a missile system that has sensor-like functions? Why isn't a firepower (missile) optional node, or part of sensors? Why is Fall Damage part of structure rather than jump? (In the lore, the very concept of leg reinforcement is based on the Highlander's jump capability.)

4. Unlike modules, the tree is not easily expanded to account for new tech; and if more nodes were added, would players still be stuck with 91 nodes? How will it address RAC-related mechanics, or stealth armour, or however they implement ATMs? When HAGs come, will they just be shoehorned into both Gauss and LB-X nodes or get their own?

Instead of rushing to say "Thanks, crybabies," maybe we should be asking the questions to help make a good system? Perhaps?

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Scout Derek, on 15 March 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

so you actually liked the idea of if you weren't targeting an enemy you'd do less damage?

okay....

Wow Scout, [Redacted].

I just said "PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE GHOST RANGE, BUT LIKED THE REST OF INFO WAR!"

way to not ******* read.

SuomiWarder, on 15 March 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but I cannot take with any seriousness comments about a game of war robots from someone with a pony signature tag.

>Can't take someone serious using 80's ponys
>we're all playing a game based around 80's stompy bots that even had the IP held by Hasbro once.
>can't take me seriously when ******* Buckaroo Banzai is CANON TO BATTLETECH.

you wut m8?

Edited by draiocht, 20 March 2017 - 10:58 PM.
insult

[RestosIII]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 16 March 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

>Can't take someone serious using 80's ponys
>we're all playing a game based around 80's stompy bots that even had the IP held by Hasbro once.
>can't take me seriously when ******* Buckaroo Banzai is CANON TO BATTLETECH.

you wut m8?

Gettin' a bit tired of arguing about the skill tree either way, so I'm gonna ignore most of this thread and just ask a question. Anyone have that image floating around of the canon Party Bus? I think it was the Roughrider's APC that was loaded up with booze, booze, and more booze instead of weaponry. Been trying to find it for awhile now.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

RestosIII, on 16 March 2017 - 06:56 AM, said:

Gettin' a bit tired of arguing about the skill tree either way, so I'm gonna ignore most of this thread and just ask a question. Anyone have that image floating around of the canon Party Bus? I think it was the Roughrider's APC that was loaded up with booze, booze, and more booze instead of weaponry. Been trying to find it for awhile now.

Isn't that the same one who's treads are replaced with Pyramid Beer can's because the pyramid style can works so well for repairs?

[RestosIII]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 16 March 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

Isn't that the same one who's treads are replaced with Pyramid Beer can's because the pyramid style can works so well for repairs?

I only know that it has 0 guns, all beer. I had an image of one of those APCs with text beside it a long time ago, but I can't find it again. Probably somewhere in my 1,617 image imgur gallery, but I ain't takin' the time to hunt through that.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

RestosIII, on 16 March 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

I only know that it has 0 guns, all beer. I had an image of one of those APCs with text beside it a long time ago, but I can't find it again. Probably somewhere in my 1,617 image imgur gallery, but I ain't takin' the time to hunt through that.

Damn, I know I've seen it before, but for the life of me right now, I can't remember where.

[Zergling]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 16 March 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

Isn't that the same one who's treads are replaced with Pyramid Beer can's because the pyramid style can works so well for repairs?

That's the Alacorn.

[Weeny Machine]

Scout Derek, on 15 March 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

so you actually liked the idea of if you weren't targeting an enemy you'd do less damage?

okay....

You forget radar detection ranges depending on size. That was a great idea.

[Alan Davion]

Bush Hopper, on 16 March 2017 - 12:32 PM, said:

You forget radar detection ranges depending on size. That was a great idea.

You do realize that's an actual real world thing right? A 747 would show up as a lot bigger a radar blip than say, a tiny-a$$ single-engine Cessna would.

Edited by Alan Davion, 16 March 2017 - 01:04 PM.

[MacClearly]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 13 March 2017 - 11:49 PM, said:

No seriously, congrats guys, you did it, you've forced yet another attempt by the company that owns the game, to cowtail to you.

Out of all the things PGI has done over the years...I'd actually hoped this would go through. After Coolantgate, 3pv, the Island... all of that... I saw hope, I was honestly looking forward to this system. Not just for changes sake, but it honestly looked interesting to me, it looked new, and fresh.

I understand the balance concerns many of you had, I get it... but there's always going to be an inherent imbalance to the game as long as Clan's weapons differ from IS, and have different damage values and the like. It's just how the game's going to work, because Clans are INHERENTLY imbalanced to IS, because that's what happened in the core Battletech game. The balancing factor of Clan vs IS were unit sizes, and clan dogma [which is NEVER represented here]

So congrats, on destroying one of the few features that I was looking forward to. The Refund was going to help me set up specifically the mechs I wanted to work on anyway, the skill tree was FINALLY going to get rid of the 3 mechs to master rule... and by god we were going to get rid of the pointless convergence node in the current tree!

And to PGI, I'm sorry you have such a ****** base of players that question your every single attempt to do something... I know you're not perfect, and I've had enough beef with you over the years [to the point that Russ blocked me on twitter for even warning him of an uprising some 4 years ago.. would still love to be unblocked by the way, I can't see any of his posts.].

So congrats guys, you stalled out what would have honestly, been a saving grace to this game. Good job.

Did you think this was going to save the game?

[Weeny Machine]

Alan Davion, on 16 March 2017 - 01:04 PM, said:

You do realize that's an actual real world thing right? A 747 would show up as a lot bigger a radar blip than say, a tiny-a$$ single-engine Cessna would.

I know. That's why I think it would have been great in-game. As I said in another thread: lights and to some extend mediums are at a disadvantage because of their lower weight and the brutal agility of heavies (and partly assaults). Having better radar profiles would have helped those classes negate some of the inherent chassis limitations

[SmokedJag]

MacClearly, on 16 March 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

Did you think this was going to save the game?

The massive reduction in up front costs would help with new player appeal and retention, yes. Games don't die from long term sunk cost players leaving (turnover and lapsing/reupping is massive even in ultra commitment games like EVE and WoW), they die from inadequate new/casual interest.

Three 'Mech mastery and tens of thousands of GXP takes a massive dump on the current "new player" enticements of the cadet bonuses. As does how much the underpopulated MM making new players with Basic skill 'Mechs face fully elite, module buffed ones subjects newer players to abuse. If people do not enjoy this experience they are not going to spend money on it and then who are entrenched whales going to kill? Eh?

[Scout Derek]

Bush Hopper, on 16 March 2017 - 12:32 PM, said:

You forget radar detection ranges depending on size. That was a great idea.

Some good ideas, some bad ones.

I think they overcomplicated it IMO. If someone new took a glance at it on a mech's quirk list with that stats, they'd get a headache.