676 replies to this topic

[MechaBattler]

What a complete cluster cuss this has become. I'm just gonna stay out of this den of misery until they release some facts on the new equipment.

[Oberost]

Edward Hazen, on 31 March 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

You assume that I do poorly in my Clan mechs.

Sorry, he doesn't assume anything, your stats speaks loudly: you're a Potato or a Terribad.

Oh, and also a Clan apologist who doesn't seem to be able to understand all the arguments that two good players (Zergling and Mcgral18) are giving to you, even supported with numbers, so at this point you're just a lost cause.

[Edward Hazen]

Zergling, on 31 March 2017 - 11:28 PM, said:

Your leaderboard stats says you do, unless you want to provide a screenshot of all your clan mechs in your profile page to prove otherwise.

If of course, it is your Inner Sphere mechs that are dragging your leaderboard stats down... doesn't that mean Clan mechs are better?

Curious, I am not currently on the leaderboard. To be accurate, I have not played a huge amount of games for the past few weeks and I have been levelling my ShadowCats.

Oberost, on 31 March 2017 - 11:39 PM, said:

Sorry, he doesn't assume anything, your stats speaks loudly: you're a Potato or a Terribad.

Oh, and also a Clan apologist who doesn't seem to be able to understand all the arguments that two good players (Zergling and Mcgral18) are giving to you, even supported with numbers, so at this point you're just a lost cause.

And who are you?

[Oberost]

Edward Hazen, on 31 March 2017 - 11:41 PM, said:

Curious, I am not currently on the leaderboard. To be accurate, I have not played a huge amount of games for the past few weeks and I have been levelling my ShadowCats.



And who are you?

Someone who seems to understand and play the game better than you...

[Edward Hazen]

Oberost, on 31 March 2017 - 11:45 PM, said:

Someone who seems to understand and play the game better than you...

Please, you joined in because your buddies, who I admit are good players, are paying attention to me.

[Edward Hazen]

Zergling, on 31 March 2017 - 11:49 PM, said:

Your stats in mediums for the last few weeks are 'not good', to put it politely:







I dunno if I'd describe myself as a 'good' player; I'm certainly better than average, but I'm nowhere near in the same class as genuinely good players like Mcgral18.

Interesting, I am doing better with my ShadowCat than I thought. S0ulReapr was IS and no longer exists. Also, these are older stats. And Yes, my W/L ratio will suck because as a QP Pug player, I am not guaranteed to be on a team that works. Ultimately, I do not give a rats' A$$ if I impress internet gaming nerds or not, I never claimed to be a great player. I do know how the game works, I do not use exploits and I choose not to play meta builds (unless I inadvertently build a meta mech). And I don't care if you get 12 kills and 10000 damage every match you play, that doesn't mean that you dictate BattleTech lore.

Edited by Edward Hazen, 01 April 2017 - 12:11 AM.

[Edward Hazen]

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 12:00 AM, said:

This is the kind of forum-ganking I was referring to earlier. And you guys do that to get a good argumentation together, proving your point with your ingame stats to then proceed to name-and-shaming individual players? No wonder nobody wants to chat about this anymore - because it's just not possible.

@Yeonne Greene

Your last post, so these numbers seem to prove your point. Singled out of the whole picture. You want to nerf Clan equipment by using one of the top Clanmechs and pitting it against the BK. When I think of those two first that comes to my mind is how easy it is to destroy sidetorsi of the TBR and how anageable it is for a BK to twist his away and shield them with it's arms. So yeah, there are numbers - and there is the whole picture you talked about.

Also, why are you guys all the time singling out the energy weapons where Clans have slight advantages in numbers, keeping burntime out of the picture. ISLPL as example for good balance? Lmao - taking reaction time and server ping into account it's basically a ballistic with IS specs. Talking about ballistics: imo the comparison of ballistic weapons would be a far more interesting topic to discuss, especially with the announced additions in the IS repertoire.

Guess that's ok with you, because these are the very pinnacle of advantage in how this game is being played efficiently.


PS: I hope my latest stats are good enough for everyone to take my post seriously. If not, please PM so I can group play some matches where the matchmaker is turned off to farm some casual Tier 5 seals to boost my stats...

Yes, if these players are as good as they claim, they would just shoot the ears off the Timber Wolf and it would be dead or practically useless in seconds.

[Zergling]

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 12:00 AM, said:

This is the kind of forum-ganking I was referring to earlier. And you guys do that to get a good argumentation together, proving your point with your ingame stats to then proceed to name-and-shaming individual players? No wonder nobody wants to chat about this anymore - because it's just not possible.

It's relevant because Edward Hazen bought up personal experience to support his arguments.

When someone does that, it is called 'argument from authority', as it is claiming their personal experience is sufficient to act as evidence on its own.
When the person using that has less authority than others, then that argument from authority is flawed, and there is nothing wrong with pointing the problems with their authority.

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 12:00 AM, said:

PS: I hope my latest stats are good enough for everyone to take my post seriously. If not, please PM so I can group play some matches where the matchmaker is turned off to farm some casual Tier 5 seals to boost my stats...

Eh, I did better in my not-meta Warhawk in Season 8 and 9, solo QP.

Edward Hazen, on 01 April 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

Interesting, I am doing better with my ShadowCat than I thought.

That's around 250 damage/battle. I hit around 375 leveling my own Shadow Cats, with similarly better other stats.

Edward Hazen, on 01 April 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

S0ulReapr was IS and no longer exists.

That's your old name though, stats for play under that name still exist.

Edward Hazen, on 01 April 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

Also, these are older stats.

Season 9 only just finished; Season 8 and 7 are only 1 and 2 months older.

You didn't do too well in heavies either in Season 9, and IIRC you said you were playing the Summoner.

Edward Hazen, on 01 April 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

And Yes, my W/L ratio will suck because as a QP Pug player, I am not guaranteed to be on a team that works.

Same goes for me; yet I can sometimes carry a team from what would have been a loss, to produce a win, resulting in a positive W/L ratio.

Edward Hazen, on 01 April 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

I do know how the game works

What makes a player produce decent/good stats in MWO is understanding of the game, not twitch reflexes or whatever.

You don't have good stats, which means you don't understand the game at the level of players like Mcgral18.

Edward Hazen, on 01 April 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

I do not use exploits and I choose not to play meta builds

Neither do I.

The only 'meta' mechs I've ever really played was the loyalty hardpoint Summoner, prior to it being nerfed, and I've shown my Season 6 heavy stats to demonstrate what happens when I do abuse meta mechs.

Even if I take those Season 6 heavy stats out of my overall stats, it barely lowers them at all: 1.34 W/L, 57.34% W/R, 1.83 K/D, 1.08 K/B, 275 average Match Score.

Edward Hazen, on 01 April 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

And I don't care if you get 12 kills and 10000 damage every match you play, that doesn't mean that you dictate BattleTech lore.

Yeah, except we aren't dicating Battletech lore; we are talking about understanding of the game mechanics of MWO, as you bought up personal knowledge.

Edward Hazen, on 01 April 2017 - 12:13 AM, said:

Yes, if these players are as good as they claim, they would just shoot the ears off the Timber Wolf and it would be dead or practically useless in seconds.

The Timber Wolf build being discussed doesn't have any 'ears'.

It doesn't have the high left torso hardpoints from the A omnipod, and no missiles.

Edited by Zergling, 01 April 2017 - 12:36 AM.

[Edward Hazen]

Zergling, on 01 April 2017 - 12:34 AM, said:

[size=4]
**ZZzzzzzzz**

Like I said before, this account is only a couple months old. We can compare stats when I get to tier 1.

[Zergling]

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 12:46 AM, said:

The TBR always have "ears" although they differ in size, making the LRM ones the biggest and the SRM/energy hps nearly the same as without weapons mounted there as everybody knows. It was even stated by PGI/Alex that this decision was made to stick to it's distinct appearance. The TBR can't shield his st or ct with his arms at any degree of torsotwist, the major weakness of´this chassis. Also, without negative quirks it's hardpoints are way lower than the ones from the BK. With the st being destroyed the Mech is basically crippled.

The Black Knight has some pretty big hitbox weaknesses of its own btw; it is very easy to pick out with a side torso or the CT, and only the right arm can be used as a shield, as the left arm leaves the head structure uncovered which is almost entirely CT hitbox.

As for the BK's hardpoint height, only the head hardpoints and one RT hardpoint on the BLK-7 (which isn't used as a build example, due to weaker -% energy heat gen quirk) are actually 'high'; the rest are about the same height as the Timber Wolf torso and arm hardpoints, on a taller mech.

[Zergling]

Edward Hazen, on 01 April 2017 - 12:52 AM, said:

Like I said before, this account is only a couple months old. We can compare stats when I get to tier 1.

I only started playing MWO again in Season 3 / September 2016, after a taking a break for over a year.

I was definitely NOT a good player when I'd previously played the game, and I had to learn a lot to improve (you can see that most of my Season 3, 4 and 5 stats are fairly meh).

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 12:58 AM, said:

You shouldn't let them drag you into this. People like "those" are just "gaming" the system circumventing limitations of the leaderboard feature to boost their own ranking. I have like 15k drops in MWO, I played on every time of day very frequently due to RL workshift etc, was Tier 1 day 1 since this is XP based - I never encountered one of them even one single time in puglandia. Never ever. Pure coincidence? I think not.

Do you only play on the EU server? I don't play on that one at all, due to high ping.

I've been recording and uploading games on Youtube for about one and a half months now, you can see some of my more interesting games here.

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

Didn't you talk about ears earlier? Now you swap your argument without coming back? Why? So you can shield your torso in a BK and you can't in a TBR. Yea, that's what I wrote didn't I? Dead side or shield arm, whatever.

Ears -/= shoulders.

The Timby is perfectly capable of shielding opposite side torsos by twisting the other way. It can't shield the CT perfectly, but then neither can the Black Knight.

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

Maybe you want to consult your forum warfare guide again - that where you got that "argument of authority" crap from - to find a term that describes your behaviour.

I'd suggest you calm down.

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

So they are "about the same" height. If that's "about the same" then Clan and IS energy weapons are "about the same" too. The most important part is always the ability to deliver pinpoint damage. This is defined by burntime. The disparity between ISLPL and CLPL for example is nearly at mindwopping 50% alone in this single most important category. Far more concerning than those below double digit percentages which were pointed out by Yeonne Greene.

I suggest you check both mine and Yeonne's posts again; the Timby build has 7x Medium Pulse Laser, zero Large Pulse.

The Black Knight has to hold its beams on target for 0.90 seconds because half its damage output comes from Medium Lasers.
The Timber Wolf has only 0.85 second burn time with its Clan Medium Pulse Lasers.

Further, the Black Knight is disadvantage in hardpoint placement, because the mech is taller than the Timber Wolf.
This means that a Timber Wolf crossing a ridgeline will be able to use its weapons sooner after exposing itself than the Black Knight could in the same situation (without even considering the Timber Wolf is faster and more agile).

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

Now, don't get me wrong. If people who want to talk about balance would bring those into the picture as well as their Clan Op "concerns" there would be an argument. But this is simply hyprocrisy. So, again: let's talk about the current ballistics disparity.

The ballistics disparity that favors Clans, due to Gauss/ER PPC builds being dominant?

Like, go compare a King Crab or Mauler running a dual Gauss build versus a KDK-3, Scorch, Boiler or even a Night Gyr.
Or the King Crab with 4x UAC5 versus a KDK-3 with dakka build.

Edited by Zergling, 01 April 2017 - 01:28 AM.

[Zergling]

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 01:33 AM, said:

No I play on NA and EU servers. How many people you think play on EU way past midnight? Sheesh. Also, I can bear the "statistical" disadvantage (wasn't it called this during this nights compscene mode reveal?) those way shortere waittimes come with.

Now, you really even promote your youtube channel? To me? It's hilarious that you expect I'd even consider looking at your handpicked matches, or even scenes, that "showcase" you playing this game. Talk about "the whole picture" again. I'm not interested in anyones personal ability, especially when it comes to shameless self promotion. You name-and-shame a less experienced player in this thread for the sole reason of not sharing your opinion and the very sake of pointing out your stats are better than his, even gang up with your "fellows" to talk him downand to revel in it after "winning", as it was written earlier.

Even if I'd be convinced you'd have any ability beyond my own I wouldn't respect you for it since you stick to behaviour like this. Because this simply deserve none. There is a big difference between humility and humiliation, not only that one is admirable and the other is not.

You're interpretation of this situation is quite flawed.

What I was doing was simple refutation of flawed statements; when someone uses personal experience as evidence, then the personal experience must be refuted.
I did not 'name and shame' either. I pointed to publicly available statistics to prove what I was saying.

I did not post my stats to humiliate, but to show the difference between someone that has an understanding of the game, and someone that does not.

I offered you my youtube channel simply to show you that I have not 'exploited' or 'gamed the system' in any way. Which by the way, is a grossly unfair and insulting accusation.

Edited by Zergling, 01 April 2017 - 01:39 AM.

[Zergling]

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 01:50 AM, said:

So you used publically available stats, yes. To what purpose? To name and shame a player. Same when people do this with stuff which is not publically available but limited to the people who were in that match to a broader audience. Same sh*t, different day is all. But this is the same with all your argumentation, you just use what is supporting your claims leaving the rest out of the picture to pull strings here and there.

Publicly available stats are exempt from name and shame, or at least when used relevant to the topic as this is.
Eg, if someone uses personal experience to support their argument, then their personal experience becomes fair game for discussion.
To a limited extent, it is fair game even before someone brings up their own personal experience, if it is necessary to establish an argument of authority.

Further, I did not use the stats to 'shame', but to refute an argument from authority. There is a difference between posting bad score screens to 'shame' a player, and pointing to their stats as evidence that their claims of experience have a flawed foundation.

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 01:50 AM, said:

And even if he has a different understanding of the game than you doesn't mean that his is wrong, or yours is correct all around. Are you god? Are you omniscient? Have achieved transcendence? No? Ya, no surprise here.

You are arguing for the sake of arguing here, because the answer is simple: there are different levels of understanding between 'omniscient' and 'knowing nothing'.

One person is perfectly capable of having a greater understanding of a topic than another without being an all-knowing god.

Don't make inane arguments like in this in the future, please.

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 01:50 AM, said:

And when did I "accuse you" personally to "exploit" the game? I used the term "gaming" (which is a different word by no coincidence) and didn't name anyone. The world does turn, but not around you.

Lets look at the Wikipedia definition of 'gaming the system':

"Gaming the system (also referred to as gaming the rules, bending the rules, abusing the system, cheating the system, milking the system, playing the system, or working the system) can be defined as using the rules and procedures meant to protect a system in order, instead, to manipulate the system for a desired outcome.^[1]"

So yes, that was an accusation of cheating.

And while you didn't specifically name anyone, the implication is clear to everyone reading this conversation: you were talking about me and Mcgral18.

Indirect accusations are still accusations.

Edited by Zergling, 01 April 2017 - 02:04 AM.

[Zergling]

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 02:10 AM, said:

How about I leave you alone with yourself(s)?

I don't have a problem with this.

[Mcgral18]

Zergling, on 31 March 2017 - 11:49 PM, said:

I dunno if I'd describe myself as a 'good' player; I'm certainly better than average, but I'm nowhere near in the same class as genuinely good players like Mcgral18.

The secret is a hearty helping of Salt

[Y E O N N E]

W E N D I G O, on 01 April 2017 - 12:00 AM, said:

This is the kind of forum-ganking I was referring to earlier. And you guys do that to get a good argumentation together, proving your point with your ingame stats to then proceed to name-and-shaming individual players? No wonder nobody wants to chat about this anymore - because it's just not possible.

@Yeonne Greene

Your last post, so these numbers seem to prove your point. Singled out of the whole picture. You want to nerf Clan equipment by using one of the top Clanmechs and pitting it against the BK. When I think of those two first that comes to my mind is how easy it is to destroy sidetorsi of the TBR and how anageable it is for a BK to twist his away and shield them with it's arms. So yeah, there are numbers - and there is the whole picture you talked about.

First, nowhere in in any my posts did I ever say nerf Clan equipment. You can go ahead and examine them yourself, you won't find such a statement. All I said is that there's a disparity between the two sides, in so many words.

Second, I still consider the TBR and BK fairly matched, after quirks, in terms of laser vomit. The BK can indeed spread damage better, but it will also die when any one of its STs is destroyed and it doesn't spread the damage that well. Both the TBR and BK have shielding arms. And at that, the TBR has the option of fighting outside the BK's optimal range, so that's something you need to consider as well. At 445 meters, the the BK is dealing 49.4 damage and its damage over duration is 54.9, meaning it puts the same damage on target in the same time that the TBR does, but there's less of it.

Also consider that the TBR can ridge-poke better than the BK, while it has the same corner-poke abilities.

Quote

Also, why are you guys all the time singling out the energy weapons where Clans have slight advantages in numbers, keeping burntime out of the picture. ISLPL as example for good balance? Lmao - taking reaction time and server ping into account it's basically a ballistic with IS specs. Talking about ballistics: imo the comparison of ballistic weapons would be a far more interesting topic to discuss, especially with the announced additions in the IS repertoire.

Guess that's ok with you, because these are the very pinnacle of advantage in how this game is being played efficiently.

I brought up energy because you guys were talking about lasers, plain and simple. I was trying to illustrate just how utterly gimpy IS lasers are without quirks, because everybody always loves to harp on the the whole heat and duration thing when the math simply does not support that line of defense. The LPL and MPL, in their stock forms, are balanced out by being brawl-range or just outside brawl-range. When they get giga-quirked to have the same reach as a standard Large Laser, they become nearly god-like, but then again that also gets partially (not completely) mitigated by explosive XL engines. The quirked IS LPL can out-trade just about any mid-range Clan laser boat, but it cannot out-trade Clan PPFLD (and that's even with the IS having more FLD options...which they can't bring with the same packaged effectiveness as cGauss+cERPPC due to the interplay between weight, slots, and heat).

[Andi Nagasia]

ok guys please remember to Keep it civil,

i know many of us are very passionate about our views and thoughts,
we love this game and or the BattleTech universe of which it is based upon,

we all have are own views and understandings of how things work in MWO,
be please remember no one person may have all the info, please keep an open mind,

you may have information they do not that proves your point,
and they may have information you do not that proves their point,

because none of us can say 100% that we know exactly what information the other has please be understanding,
listen and learn from your Peers, even if you think you are correct in your assumptions, please keep an open mind,
try to see where they are coming from, try to see how they see it, it will better help both of you,

Thank you,

[Valdemaar]

With the advancing timeline maybe we can get some of the cool new light mechs, like the Razorback and Anubis

[Sniper09121986]

Valdemaar, on 05 April 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

With the advancing timeline maybe we can get some of the cool new light mechs, like the Razorback and Anubis

There has been some demand for Osiris, so Anubis is quite likely since they are supposed to complement each other. As a Clansman I am still waiting for viable 20-25 t options for FW like http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Fire_Falcon that has been timeline-legitimate for quite some time now.

[Star Runner]

I hope you all die. And I don't mean just any kind of death I mean an elemental ripping your canopy off your cockpit and squishing your head while a locust runs circles around you blasting your ankles DEATH!!! Now click that spectate button and have a nice day .