SilentWolff, on 16 March 2017 - 10:57 AM, said:
Are we playing the same game? Whats the meta right now? PPC's and gauss right? So lets take the gauss outta the equation for a minute and talk about ERPPC's. ERPPC's have a longer range and are pinpoint damage. So how are ERPPC ok, yet Clan ERLL are somehow in a good place with 1.5 duration? Sorry, that makes no sense. Theres is reason you dont see people using Clan ERLL. Why would you stand in the open to do spread damage to a moving target, when you can just use PPC's and get pinpoint damage and only have to expose yourself for .5 seconds?
XxRingWraithxX, on 16 March 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:
You may need to help me because I don't see the equality.
Yes, we are playing the same game. To my point above, I haven't forgotten the rest of the forest though.
You are correct, PPC+Gauss reign supreme for poke at ranges between 400 and 700 meters. From 700 on up, however, they start becoming increasingly unreliable against more agile targets. It is for this reason alone that you even bother taking lasers at all; we got a textbook demonstration in MWOWC when 228th didn't bring any ERLL in their deck in the finals and were harassed to death by Spiders. It was an extremely decisive start condition. The only reason the isERLL is preferred at all is because they have options with quirks that buff the damage/burn and range above that of the cERLL and because, until the MAD-IIC hits C-Bills, there are no Clan 'Mechs with sufficient numbers of high mounts. If it weren't for those quirks, and if there were a Clan 'Mech with comparable mounts, it would be user's choice whether or not you want the cERLL or the isERLL because, as of now, they do almost exactly the same dam/burn and the cERLL even has a significant lead in range.
I would also point out that EmP's 4xUAC/2 Hunchback is also better than the cERPPC at extreme range because the 2000 m/s velocity allows you to generate a firing solution sooner due to lower required deflection angle, and begin firing such that you get the same or more damage onto the target as twin ERPPC might in the same time window. It's right in between an ERLL boat and cERPPC+cGauss.
TL;DR: the ERLL's role is to deal with agility at range, a solid and useful niche.
XxRingWraithxX, on 16 March 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:
You may need to help me because I don't see the equality.
9 damage lasers with a burn time of around 1.00 second were common, as were range buffs between 10% and 20%. The QKD-5K, the meta choice Heavy at the time, burned for 0.9375 seconds, yielding a dam/burn of 9.6, with an optimum range of 826 meters moduled up. It also had considerable durability buffs. During that Div A Clans vs. IS test, those lasers absolutely dismantled anything and everything on any map that wasn't bent toward close-range (which is most maps), including cERPPC+cGauss (I don't actually think they tested this one thoroughly, but they claimed it wouldn't have mattered), the latter of which is actually worse today than it was then. It was a hilarious landslide win for the IS.
If we drop the duration on cERLL to 1.0 seconds, similar to launch day, we generate 11 dam/burn at 810 meters moduled up. If the slightly weaker isERLL was tearing it up, what do you think is going to happen with cERLL doing more damage even within a 0.9 second window than those supercharged isERLL? I do not think it is a stretch, or even a difficult extrapolation, to conclude that It's going to similarly demolish anything and everything. We even have superior Clan platforms to mount them on, now, in the form of the HBK-IIC-A, the KDK-5, and the MAD-IIC. DHS are also stronger, too, which compounds more profoundly on the Clan 'Mechs that bring more.
Even if we drop damage to 10, we've got the same problem. Even if we keep damage at 11 and only drop to 1.25 seconds, we have the problem. Even if we drop to 10
and go to 1.25 seconds, we
still have the problem.
We don't need to a drawn-out trial-and-error tweak-fest with exaggerated values to figure out where it ought to be. We may not have exact evidence, but we have a pretty convincing proxy to demonstrate what happens when you give durable 'Mechs high damage, extreme range lasers with high damage/burn, and we know about where the tipping point is.
And to wit, what will happen if we drop an 11 damage laser, even to 1.25 seconds, without compensation of any kind is that the cLPL, isERLL, isLL, Gauss, cGauss, PPC, isPPC, cERPPC, and everything with shorter range all become less effective relative to that gun for a variety of reasons including having flat-out inferior stats, being more difficult to use across the entire range spectrum, and maps favoring long range combat. In some cases (cERPPC+cGauss), that's a good thing. In most, it's not. We can't then go and buff everything else because, while we might end up with a balanced game, we also end up with a rather short TTK once an engagement happens.
Am I saying that the cERLL should remain at 1.5 seconds? Absolutely not. But I do take issue with your idea that you can just alter the duration on the cERLL in a vacuum, because you absolutely cannot. The cERLL is actually balanced against the vanilla isERLL right now, and you can see that because isERLL are consistently left in the garage, too...unless it's a GHR-5P with its -15% duration and +10% range.
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