143 replies to this topic

[tworivers]

The answer to all the player problems is nerf the clans , nerf the clans , nerf the clans , nerf the clans , nerf the clans , then after that the excuse for poor playing will be bad weapons design , then when most have quit the game it will be , gee how come nobody plays anymore.

[Mawai]

Athom83, on 23 March 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

*Looks back the the "feature" of the 1000% missile cooldown Quickdraw* *looks back again at the Direstars and Gigadrills* When those features are in of themselves broken, using them alone is exploitation.

Well. Exploitation has different ways it can be interpreted.

1) "The fact of making use of a situation to gain unfair advantage for oneself."
In a video game, making use of the supplied tools to maximize your performance without breaking the rules, hacking or cheating is NOT exploitation. It is NOT unfair in any way shape or form since the same tools are available to all players. It is up to the developer to decide if whatever mode of play is being used is what they want for their video game and change it accordingly (Features are not broken until the developer decides that they are and fixes them or issues new rules to cover them.. no matter the opinion of individual players). As long as the players are playing by the rules of the game then they aren't exploiting by this definition.

However .. another definition of exploitation.
2) "The action of making use of and benefiting from resources."
If you use exploitation to mean taking suitable advantage of all available tools and resources then YES ... folks are exploiting the available resources. That is what they are expected to do and there is nothing incorrect, immoral or wrong with playing the game that way ... that is the way it is designed.

Definitions :
https://en.oxforddic...on/exploitation

[Baulven]

The Nerf Bat, on 23 March 2017 - 06:39 AM, said:

Every time clan mechs get touched by The Nerf Bat, clammers lose their mind.



PGI would never nerf hammer one side and not touch the other.




Let's not mention the fact that I.S. srm's and uac's got nerfed at the same time.


Go ahaed and play I.S. mechs, you'll be back in clan mechs within a month.

I would gladly ask you to stop touching the clan mechs if that is why everyone loses their minds each time a change comes around for clans.

[Pixel Hunter]

JackalBeast, on 23 March 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

WHY IS NO ONE COMMENTING ABOUT THE BLOODY COMPONENT HIT POINTS?????!!!!
Going off the top of my head from last night - really can't believe dis crap. In most cases clan components have just barely over half of the hit points of their IS counterparts. It's just a bit bizarre. I've been mostly dropping in my Inner Sphere mechs, because I don't want to deal with it yet.

Clam srms - like 3.5 HP IS SRMS - like 7.5
Clam UAC10/LBX10 - 10hp ISAC10 -15
Clam UAC 5 - 7.5 points IS AC5/UAC5 - 12hp
Clam UAC20/LBX -16.5 pts IS AC20 - 25 points!!
Clam ERPPC - 7.5hp IS PPC/ER - 12.5 HP
Clam ERLARGE - 6.6HP IS ERLARGE -10 Hp
Clam ER Med - 5 HP IS Med - ? didn't check
Clam DHS - 6.6 HP IS DHS - 10HP
Clam Gauss(12 tons) - 5HP, 100% crit on hit IS Gauss (15T) 10 HP, 90% on crit.

You get the point.


Also - Oh hey look its an IS loyalist stating how their clan mechs are fine, Overpowered in fact - That's original and you never see that on these forums. ( Streaks are dumb and if you use them, you are not very good)

all of the clan components are smaller and lighter.

so logically...they have lass HP

as to the whole "it's the players not the mechs" I think the chicken came first in this situation: all the "good" players gravitated to clan mechs because they are that much better. you don't see people rolling in timber wolfs because they are horrible and they want to lose matches.

Edited by Gimpy117, 23 March 2017 - 03:14 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

Thank you OP. I have sold my Gold Stormcrow and Dire.

Phew, that was close.

[Wintersdark]

Khobai, on 23 March 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

the reality is nobody likes their stuff getting nerfed. clans have every right to be pissed about repeated nerfs

PGI did not handle clan vs IS balance properlyl when they first introduced clans. and now clan players have to pay for PGI's incompetence with repeated nerfs that never wouldve been necessary had balance been handled properly from day 1.

so of course clan players are going to be angry about it. I mean who wouldnt be?

the least PGI could do is give clans some more new weapons/equipments to take some of the bite out of getting constantly nerfed. All the stuff that clans should have by 3068 like XXL engines, HAGs, ER pulses, Streak LRMs, etc... but instead they pissed off clans doubly by shafting them on new tech and leaving out those important tech advances.

A mature adult shouldn't be pissed off. Children, perhaps, because they lack perspective, but any reasonable adult should be able to see:

1) Stuff wasn't balanced.
2) You can't always buff the weakest, as "average power level" has substantial impacts on gameplay, and power creep is almost always a bad thing.
3) Thus, the strongest stuff needs to be nerfed.



"PGI should have done a better job with the initial balancing!"

Sure. But to be fair, how many MMO PvP games launch well balanced? I can't think of any. None. Balance is hard, and always an ongoing concern. It's particularly difficult for PGI both because they're not good at PvP balancing, and also - and at least equally importantly - this is an IP that is inherently, deliberately imbalanced. PGI's stated goal has always been balance, but acheives factional balance while preserving as much of the feel of the lore as possible when the lore is HEAVILY slanted in favour of one faction is an extraordinarily difficult task.


There's no point in being mad about it. Unless this is your very first and only online game (even leaving PvP out of it!) You'd KNOW that the strongest stuff would inevitably get nerfed.

[Wintersdark]

LT. HARDCASE, on 23 March 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

i'm preeeetty sure that the Night Gyr is MWO's reigning AC2 God

Thinking macros had any impact at all showed logic and rational thought didn't play any role in his theory, so this certainly won't.

[J0anna]

Hunchening, on 23 March 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

Wow, that is a terrible line of thought

Who would even WANT new weapons to be balanced? A ridiculous concept

Try reading what I wrote. I want IS ERML's balanced against Clan ERML's. I don't want to see IS ML's balanced against IS ERML's. Right now they are trying to balance level 1 tech (IS ML's) against level 2 tech. I say when the IS get level 2 tech this summer, balance level 2 tech against level 2 tech (As FASA intended it) and cut level 1 tech out.

It's like expecting the gun you get as a starter player in any other mmo, to always be balanced with weapons you get later. If that's the case, why would you want later weapons, as your starter ones are just as good?

[Athom83]

Mawai, on 23 March 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

1) "The fact of making use of a situation to gain unfair advantage for oneself."

The key word here is unfair. I agree to your statements as I've also given them to others. What I was referring to was the use of an imbalance to purposefully obtain an unfair advantage. If you use the resources available to you to get an advantage over another, good for you. As long as that advantage is not caused by an imbalance in a system. Another definition of exploit is to selfishly use for ones own benefit at the cost of others.

[Gas Guzzler]

JackalBeast, on 23 March 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

WHY IS NO ONE COMMENTING ABOUT THE BLOODY COMPONENT HIT POINTS?????!!!!
Going off the top of my head from last night - really can't believe dis crap. In most cases clan components have just barely over half of the hit points of their IS counterparts. It's just a bit bizarre. I've been mostly dropping in my Inner Sphere mechs, because I don't want to deal with it yet.

Clam srms - like 3.5 HP IS SRMS - like 7.5
Clam UAC10/LBX10 - 10hp ISAC10 -15
Clam UAC 5 - 7.5 points IS AC5/UAC5 - 12hp
Clam UAC20/LBX -16.5 pts IS AC20 - 25 points!!
Clam ERPPC - 7.5hp IS PPC/ER - 12.5 HP
Clam ERLARGE - 6.6HP IS ERLARGE -10 Hp
Clam ER Med - 5 HP IS Med - ? didn't check
Clam DHS - 6.6 HP IS DHS - 10HP
Clam Gauss(12 tons) - 5HP, 100% crit on hit IS Gauss (15T) 10 HP, 90% on crit.

You get the point.


Also - Oh hey look its an IS loyalist stating how their clan mechs are fine, Overpowered in fact - That's original and you never see that on these forums. ( Streaks are dumb and if you use them, you are not very good)

You just going to ignore the massive difference in slot requirements? Its actually blatantly unbalanced for IS-Clan weapon HPs to be even, because Clan mechs can crit pad much better (stuffing more weapons/equipment into each component). It actually makes sense that a heavier 7-slot AC10 has more hit points than a 2 ton lighter, 4-slot UAC10. You can fit 3 UAC10s into a single torso or two into an arm, whereas you can only fit 1 IS AC10 in a torso/arm.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 March 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

You just going to ignore the massive difference in slot requirements? Its actually blatantly unbalanced for IS-Clan weapon HPs to be even, because Clan mechs can crit pad much better (stuffing more weapons/equipment into each component). It actually makes sense that a heavier 7-slot AC10 has more hit points than a 2 ton lighter, 4-slot UAC10. You can fit 3 UAC10s into a single torso or two into an arm, whereas you can only fit 1 IS AC10 in a torso/arm.

Your logic has no power here.

[MischiefSC]

Math is haxx.

Oh, and clans are supposed to be OP even if that makes the game terrible.

How are people supposed to maintain the illusion that they're good at the game if things are balanced? What, learn to win on skill and not broken balance?

Ain't nobody got time for that!

[Revis Volek]

Dakota1000, on 23 March 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

Basically anything that isn't Gauss+PPC+poptart (or a Kodiak-3/Scorch) but is Clan tech gets weakened heavily over time by the blanket nerfs that constantly hit the clans to nerf overperformers.

Ah, someone who actually understand the problem and that treating the symptoms doesn't affect the cause.

[Mystere]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 March 2017 - 12:38 PM, said:

Wasn't really responding to you so much as adding to your comment. People keep talking about nerfs like it impacted the meta or something like that when it didn't in the slightest.

It can be argued that nerfs do more harm on the trash-tier stuff than on the metawhoring stuff the nerfs were intended to deal with. With this in mind I can understand why people are unhappy.

Athom83, on 23 March 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

*Looks back the the "feature" of the 1000% missile cooldown Quickdraw* *looks back again at the Direstars and Gigadrills* When those features are in of themselves broken, using them alone is exploitation.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Mystere, on 23 March 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

tasty looking fish you got there.

[Revis Volek]

Mystere, on 23 March 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

It can be argued that nerfs do more harm on the trash-tier stuff than on the metawhoring stuff the nerfs were intended to deal with. With this in mind I can understand why people are unhappy.

[Deathlike]

I was looking for moar doge in my diet. Much disappoint.

[DjPush]

Nick86, on 23 March 2017 - 12:35 PM, said:

I thought OP was banned a while back..? PGI must be real desperate for players!

I have never been banned. I left the game for a while because... well...

[Revis Volek]

Deathlike, on 23 March 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

I was looking for moar doge in my diet. Much disappoint.

i am lazy, was he first thing i found on google the pertained.


meh

[Michael Kail]

Roughneck45, on 23 March 2017 - 06:14 AM, said:

Sounds like a dramatic morning.

Were you losing weapons from crits?

I fail to see how losing 1-4% crit chance, UAC-2 bonus crit chance, and a .5 spread increase renders your builds useless.

Eeeeeeeeeeexactly! LOL. Just what I was thinking!