143 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Wintersdark, on 23 March 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

...

But this nerfs PPC/Gauss Mechs too? They specifically nerfed PPC's and Gauss here.

And, yes, there have been blanket nerfs to clans. Lots. Lots and lots.

And yet... Ignoring a couple downright poor Mechs, the Average Clan Mech is still objectively superior to the. Average IS Mech.

We still have Clan XL's, lighter weapons, smaller weapons, half sided ES/FF.

Clans where simply stronger before, and they're probably still stronger now.

It's not like our Timberwolf, Stormcrow, Hellbringer, Hunchback IIC, Ebon Jaguar, and such are weak Mechs unable to hold their own.

Jesus people. This patch's nerfs are small. Don't be that guy who cried because his advantage is smaller than it used to be. It's still an advantage.

The gauss and PPC nerfs this patch only were a few changes to the crit damage they deal. UACs got cut down by heavy jam chance increases and jam duration times and higher heat, SRMs got spread increased ontop of already higher values for clanners, ERML, ERSL, and LPL had max range heavily reduced, Clan components got weakened by a considerable amount in the health department, and the TCs got their bonuses based off the TC7, which was regarded as the most useless one now.

Basically I'm just saying that in comparison to the other weapon types gauss and PPC combo is looking like the best weapon sets at the moment and the meta agrees. ERML and LPL spam still continues as a second class meta but UAC builds that aren't full boats and SRM builds are the underclass.

[Monkey Lover]

All the uac jam, srm spread, laser duration and more are getting buffed with the skill tree. They will be back to the old system in two months.

[DjPush]

Monkey Lover, on 23 March 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

All the uac jam, srm spread, laser duration and more are getting buffed with the skill tree. They will be back to the old system in two months.

Hadn't thought about that. If the skill tree ever gets released.

[R Valentine]

Monkey Lover, on 23 March 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

All the uac jam, srm spread, laser duration and more are getting buffed with the skill tree. They will be back to the old system in two months.

That's very optimistic.

[Athom83]

Dakota1000, on 23 March 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

UACs got cut down by heavy jam chance increases and jam duration times and higher heat, SRMs got spread increased ontop of already higher values for clanners, ERML, ERSL, and LPL had max range heavily reduced, Clan components got weakened by a considerable amount in the health department, and the TCs got their bonuses based off the TC7, which was regarded as the most useless one now.

Um... now is the time for that sky is falling, tinfoil hat meme.
1) Only the CUAC2's crit chance bonuses was touched this update. You notice the jams more because of the added voice, they are still jamming at the same rate.
2) Clan SRMs are half the size while retaining the range, ammo/ton, heat, reload, and damage (don't get started on that 0.075 damage difference a missile). The only way to balance to the is to give clan a slightly wider spread.
3) The lasers were untouched.
4) The component HP balances out the fact that you can fit more, smaller, components in that had the same health as things 10x their size and weight. It affected both sides.
5) The previous version of the T-Comp balance started with far to high values for the smaller ones and didn't have any meaningful increase for the larger ones.
5.5) The larger ones hardly received any nerfs while it was the smaller ones that took the brunt of it. Now its more desirable to go ahead and spend the 5 tons on a larger T-Comp over the 1 ton one where before there was almost no difference between the two.

Dakota1000, on 23 March 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

Basically I'm just saying that in comparison to the other weapon types gauss and PPC combo is looking like the best weapon sets at the moment and the meta agrees. ERML and LPL spam still continues as a second class meta but UAC builds that aren't full boats and SRM builds are the underclass.

PPCs and Gauss had the heaviest nerfs this update. They can no longer insta-wreck everything the millisecond there is no more armor over a component.

[Monkey Lover]

Kiran Yagami, on 23 March 2017 - 07:15 AM, said:

That's very optimistic.

If you look at Russ's Twitter you can see he is happy with it other than the cbills issues. With thier "upgrade credits" he will push it out. He already said he was happy even with the junk balance it's making.

It's coming if we like it or not lol.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 23 March 2017 - 07:26 AM.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Monkey Lover, on 23 March 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

All the uac jam, srm spread, laser duration and more are getting buffed with the skill tree. They will be back to the old system in two months. soon.

FIFY

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Athom83, on 23 March 2017 - 07:16 AM, said:

Um... now is the time for that sky is falling, tinfoil hat meme.
1) Only the CUAC2's crit chance bonuses was touched this update. You notice the jams more because of the added voice, they are still jamming at the same rate.
2) Clan SRMs are half the size while retaining the range, ammo/ton, heat, reload, and damage (don't get started on that 0.075 damage difference a missile). The only way to balance to the is to give clan a slightly wider spread.
3) The lasers were untouched.
4) The component HP balances out the fact that you can fit more, smaller, components in that had the same health as things 10x their size and weight. It affected both sides.
5) The previous version of the T-Comp balance started with far to high values for the smaller ones and didn't have any meaningful increase for the larger ones.
5.5) The larger ones hardly received any nerfs while it was the smaller ones that took the brunt of it. Now its more desirable to go ahead and spend the 5 tons on a larger T-Comp over the 1 ton one where before there was almost no difference between the two.


PPCs and Gauss had the heaviest nerfs this update. They can no longer insta-wreck everything the millisecond there is no more armor over a component.

I'm not talking about this patch in specific, I'm talking about what has been done in about the past year of changes. Its been creating a trend in which other weapon types have been receiving large nerfs while ERPPCs haven't had many nerfs and their buffs have been more so than the nerfs and gauss, while being nerfed, is still pretty decent for backing them up, leading to today's gauss+PPC meta.

[El Bandito]

DjPush, on 23 March 2017 - 06:19 AM, said:

Yup. They are really bad. My IS mechs shred Clan mechs to pieces. Save for the holy trinity: Kodiaks, Night GYRs and Marauder IICs. Macro AC5s and AC2's on IS mechs are killing it right now.

Cause there is no way I can take this thread seriously after seeing the underlined/bolded part.

[MechaBattler]

They didn't change anything this last patch for UACs. And SRMs/LRM spread hit both factions. The only thing that changed is that they addressed an issue where IS mechs were getting critted more than Clan mechs. It wasn't just a "blanket nerf" like all of the clan players keep saying. It was addressing an issue in the crit system that saw the IS be critted more often because Clans are better able to crit pad their mechs. The biggest nerf is to Targeting computers. You could make a case that was a targeted nerf. If that's what this is about. But no, this is just to promote the rhetoric that Clans should stay superior, regardless of whether it makes any sense.

[Hobbles v]

Op you clearly have a piss poor understanding of this game. Clans still have the edge in equal tonnage scenarios. The critical change did favour the is when it comes to the larger components but one slot equipment on Is got weaker too. Clans can still better protect vital weapons by fitting more components like heat sinks into each section of the mech. Sure when that clan uac5 is hit it'll die easier than the is one but it's still less likely to be hit.

Also You think mixing balistics, srms and lasers is a good idea. They all have different velocities so either you fire each separately and stare at your target like a ****** or fire altogether and miss with half of them.

[Jackal Noble]

WHY IS NO ONE COMMENTING ABOUT THE BLOODY COMPONENT HIT POINTS?????!!!!
Going off the top of my head from last night - really can't believe dis crap. In most cases clan components have just barely over half of the hit points of their IS counterparts. It's just a bit bizarre. I've been mostly dropping in my Inner Sphere mechs, because I don't want to deal with it yet.

Clam srms - like 3.5 HP IS SRMS - like 7.5
Clam UAC10/LBX10 - 10hp ISAC10 -15
Clam UAC 5 - 7.5 points IS AC5/UAC5 - 12hp
Clam UAC20/LBX -16.5 pts IS AC20 - 25 points!!
Clam ERPPC - 7.5hp IS PPC/ER - 12.5 HP
Clam ERLARGE - 6.6HP IS ERLARGE -10 Hp
Clam ER Med - 5 HP IS Med - ? didn't check
Clam DHS - 6.6 HP IS DHS - 10HP
Clam Gauss(12 tons) - 5HP, 100% crit on hit IS Gauss (15T) 10 HP, 90% on crit.

You get the point.


Also - Oh hey look its an IS loyalist stating how their clan mechs are fine, Overpowered in fact - That's original and you never see that on these forums. ( Streaks are dumb and if you use them, you are not very good)

[Athom83]

Maybe a components HP has something to do with the tonnage and crit slots the take up . Clan AC20/LBX is the same tonnage and slots as an IS AC10, and they have equal HPs. Clan SRMs are half the tons and slots as the IS SRMs, and they have half the HP. Clan BHS is, again, 2/3 the size of IS BHS and has 2/3 the HP. By your own numbers you disprove your own point.

[Jackal Noble]

Athom83, on 23 March 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

Maybe a components HP has something to do with the tonnage and crit slots the take up . Clan AC20/LBX is the same tonnage and slots as an IS AC10, and they have equal HPs. Clan SRMs are half the tons and slots as the IS SRMs, and they have half the HP. Clan BHS is, again, 2/3 the size of IS BHS and has 2/3 the HP. By your own numbers you disprove your own point.

Let me say this; I realize this may be a bit premature to outright hate on this as it may still be a small cog in a bigger machine - hopefully.But as it stands, there would be some Clan mechs - particular OMNIS - that can't just load up on DHS willy nilly- just for the sake of trying to protect their components.

In fact, unless it's a laser vomit build ( let's be real not everyone is a boring *** metatard where shooting 2 lpls and 3-4 med lasers is mech life) you will actually have unused pod space which is open for crit .No, there are a number of viable builds that were actually gimped somewhat by the dhs nerfing - for example if you have two hypothetical identical IS/Clan builds where both have open pod space and say 3 DHS. The IS mech is at the advantage here, on the basis that it has ~10 more hp, plus whatever difference in structure (~1/3 to 1/2 more generally) plus difference in weapon component health.

Edited by JackalBeast, 23 March 2017 - 09:21 AM.

[FireStoat]

I think PuG quick matches are an entirely different beast from FW in terms of mech equality. In quick matches, Clans still seemingly have a bit of an edge due to what they offer a player in a chaotic environment - speed and range (generalizing with range, I'll get back to it). When you are forced to play with others who are just dropping in with what they have fun with, I believe the above is true.

FW is where the IS pilots take off the kid gloves and select mechs like the Thunderbolts and Grasshoppers that are loaded with laser quirks and the situation changes really fast. Range suddenly becomes on par with Clan if not better in some cases, while retaining structure / mobility / armor quirks ON TOP of having a larger tonnage amount for the drop deck. I'm honestly very curious as to what will happen when the tech update drops and IS obtains new weapons and especially the new light fusion engine, while retaining their quirks that were listed on the last PTS build with the PDF doc release.

[Jackal Noble]

And in case everyone forgot, taking up, soaking up, filling up (however you want to put it) is a good thing especially in terms of battlemechs

[Athom83]

JackalBeast, on 23 March 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

for example if you have two hypothetical identical IS/Clan builds

I'll stop you there.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9efdfa064350728
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1ca1a2bd8e091da
While the IS one has some more (very little) component HP, the clan version is still vastly superior in just about every way. It has some left over tonnage, can lose an ST and keep fighting, has more slots remaining, has a higher damage output and range, and will last longer over the battle to do even more damage.

And your point about "pod space" is invalid as while the IS can have higher HP per DHS, the clan can make up for that by having more DHS in the pod. With an XL engine IS mechs can fit 3 DHS in the torso, the clan ones can fit 5. 30HP for IS vs 33 HP for clan.

[GrimRiver]

JackalBeast, on 23 March 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

WHY IS NO ONE COMMENTING ABOUT THE BLOODY COMPONENT HIT POINTS?????!!!!
Going off the top of my head from last night - really can't believe dis crap. In most cases clan components have just barely over half of the hit points of their IS counterparts. It's just a bit bizarre. I've been mostly dropping in my Inner Sphere mechs, because I don't want to deal with it yet.

Clam srms - like 3.5 HP IS SRMS - like 7.5
Clam UAC10/LBX10 - 10hp ISAC10 -15
Clam UAC 5 - 7.5 points IS AC5/UAC5 - 12hp
Clam UAC20/LBX -16.5 pts IS AC20 - 25 points!!
Clam ERPPC - 7.5hp IS PPC/ER - 12.5 HP
Clam ERLARGE - 6.6HP IS ERLARGE -10 Hp
Clam ER Med - 5 HP IS Med - ? didn't check
Clam DHS - 6.6 HP IS DHS - 10HP
Clam Gauss(12 tons) - 5HP, 100% crit on hit IS Gauss (15T) 10 HP, 90% on crit.

You get the point.


Also - Oh hey look its an IS loyalist stating how their clan mechs are fine, Overpowered in fact - That's original and you never see that on these forums. ( Streaks are dumb and if you use them, you are not very good)

(Because clan tech takes up less slots and weights less.

While IS tech is massive and heavy and is very easy to crit out, especially the AC20.

Can't tell people how many times I've lost my AC20 to a glancing medium laser hit.)

Was playing my NTG, HMN and EXE and didn't notice any issues with lower tech health or UAC's jamming any more than they already do.

[MechaBattler]

With IS weapons still being bigger. They're still technically more likely to be critted than Clan weapons. They just won't necessarily be destroyed by a single crit.

[DjPush]

Dakota1000, on 23 March 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

The gauss and PPC nerfs this patch only were a few changes to the crit damage they deal. UACs got cut down by heavy jam chance increases and jam duration times and higher heat, SRMs got spread increased ontop of already higher values for clanners, ERML, ERSL, and LPL had max range heavily reduced, Clan components got weakened by a considerable amount in the health department, and the TCs got their bonuses based off the TC7, which was regarded as the most useless one now.

Basically I'm just saying that in comparison to the other weapon types gauss and PPC combo is looking like the best weapon sets at the moment and the meta agrees. ERML and LPL spam still continues as a second class meta but UAC builds that aren't full boats and SRM builds are the underclass.

This is my point. Thank you.