135 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

Yeah, most Clan assault mechs are inferior to what we already have, its pretty tough to power creep the Clan assault lineup even more. Even the Blood Asp would essentially be a side grade to the KDK-3 at best, or even the Mad Cat Mk. II.

It has the potential to be a slightly more agile, less firepower Dire, with hover jets and higher hardpoints/less cowling over head to get shot before you even look over a hill.

If hoverjets weren't so categorically bad at that weight, and it didn't look like a reject puppet from fraggle rock, I would probably be much less anti about it.

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

Those weren't their designs though.

Neither is is the Beretta 92 commonly known as the M9 in the US Military and American design, but it's still (for a skosh longer) the US Military Sidearm... until it's replaced by the equally "not murican" Sig P320 sidearm.

Point is, the Jade Falcons seemed to use those various "generic" Mechs as frequently, and usually more famously, than their home grown. Kind of like how only a few select US units use the "made and designed in America!" 1911 pistol of John Moses Browning. The vast majority are outfitted by Beretta, Sig or Glock, ATM.

Heck, even the M1A1 Abrams uses a German main gun (Rheinmetall 120mm Smoothbore), and and British (Chobham) Armor.

*shrugs*

If the Birdies had a cool, even if cool and bad, Assault, dude I would be totally supporting you... but from meta, stylistic and just "interesting" factors.... CJF of this era... failed pretty bad.

But don't feel too terrible... they made the Summoner Heavy Mech (200 year agoish), so all is not lost!

[El Bandito]

Zergling, on 29 March 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

Turkina was in the MechCommander, Desperate Measures.

It uh, didn't look very good:



Some Turkina's also appeared in the novel Prince of Havoc.

Turkina always reminds me of a flat frog. Especially since it can jump.

[Bishop Steiner]

Zergling, on 29 March 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

Turkina was in the MechCommander, Desperate Measures.

It uh, didn't look very good:



Some Turkina's also appeared in the novel Prince of Havoc.

Mech Commander what? Fan expansion or was it an expansion to MC1 I missed somehow? :/ Also, aside from brief blurbs before they died, what notable pilots were in those Turkinas?

Also, I recall this complete redesign that ain't bad.... but it's a Turkina pretty literally in name only, and in no way "official".

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

Yep, Turkina's definitely took part in the great refusal (I think they had 2), and as matter of fact, CJF was one of the two Clans to actually win.

Regarding looks, Alex's versions always look good.

Banshee, Kintaro and a few others disagree. (Though admittedly better than the source material... but even Alex doesn't walk across swimming pools... and the Kintaro was almost a ground up re-visioning... and still looks awkward and crappy as hell.)

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

Banshee, Kintaro and a few others disagree. (Though admittedly better than the source material... but even Alex doesn't walk across swimming pools... and the Kintaro was almost a ground up re-visioning... and still looks awkward and crappy as hell.)

I like the Banshee well enough, not a fan of the Kintaro.

But still, that's a pretty good track record, especially lately.

I think if he were to draw it (if he hasn't already) his Turkina would look just fine.

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

Neither is is the Beretta 92 commonly known as the M9 in the US Military and American design, but it's still (for a skosh longer) the US Military Sidearm... until it's replaced by the equally "not murican" Sig P320 sidearm.

Lets take a look at this list.

http://www.sarna.net...con_BattleMechs

[Zergling]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

Mech Commander what? Fan expansion or was it an expansion to MC1 I missed somehow? :/ Also, aside from brief blurbs before they died, what notable pilots were in those Turkinas?

It was an official expansion for MC1... but I think it was only available as part of MechCommander Gold.

As for its appearance in Prince of Havoc, it was in the Great Refusal trial between a Clan Jade Falcon binary and a ComGuard company.
I think one of the Turkina pilots was named, but I don't think it was any significant lore figure; Khan Marthe Pryde was in the battle, but she was using her Summoner as usual.
I do recall that both Turkina's were B configuration though.

Edited by Zergling, 29 March 2017 - 10:14 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

I like the Banshee well enough, not a fan of the Kintaro.

But still, that's a pretty good track record, especially lately.

I think if he were to draw it (if he hasn't already) his Turkina would look just fine.



Lets take a look at this list.

http://www.sarna.net...con_BattleMechs

that solves one of the issues (maybe) it has.

-Now... about being... Interesting? JJs being worthless? Etc?
(Note I'm not even caring if it's "good").

I mean hell, as long as we are talkign about missing mechs for factions, why not the Emperor for Liao? Or any of dozens of more interesting mechs to fill various missing faction slots? How about some love for Clan Goliath Scorpion? (aside from only having the Fire Scorpion really... and it being.. a quad...and well, not very good or interesting.... at least on paper)

Ok, let me go dig up a better example of a non represented clan, dammit.....

Arctic Wolf- Clan WOlf
Blood Kite (blood spirits)
Battle Cpobra or Crossbow or Scylla (Steel vipers....why do I like so many steel viper designs, dammit????)

and others....

I want to get behind you on this. But the options just aren't interesting. :/

Zergling, on 29 March 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

It was an official expansion for MC1... but I think it was only available as part of MechCommander Gold.

As for its appearance in Prince of Havoc, it was in the Great Refusal trial between a Clan Jade Falcon binary and a ComGuard company.
I think one of the Turkina pilots was named, but I don't think it was any significant lore figure; Khan Marthe Pryde was in the battle, but she was using her Summoner as usual.
I do recall that both Turkina's were B configuration though.

interesting on the MC...wonder if it's downloadable anywhere.

And yeah, so lore wise.. nothing of real note.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

I was never really a fan of Verybad's redesign, honestly I wasn't that big of a fan of most of Verybad's work sadly. That thing also looks terribly top heavy.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 March 2017 - 10:23 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

So I guess looking through lists for other Clans, we are missing mechs in other weight classes for certain Clans as well, so I guess what's most important is "widespread use". Were Bane's, Marauder IIC's, or Warhawks used extensively by CJF in this time period? Maybe you all know more than I, but wasn't under the impression that they were incredibly common.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 10:24 AM, said:

Were Bane's, Marauder IIC's, or Warhawks used extensively by CJF in this time period? Maybe you all know more than I, but wasn't under the impression that they were incredibly common.

CJF didn't really use an assault predominantly over others like say CGB might with their Executioners or CSJ with the Whale and Warhawk.

CJF also loved mobile jumpers and the Turkina is not that.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 March 2017 - 10:28 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 March 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

CJF didn't really use an assault predominantly over others like say CGB might with their Executioners or CSJ with the Whale and Warhawk.

...aside from the Turkina in the mid to late 3050s and beyond? (used on Tukayyid and the Great Refusal, etc)

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 29 March 2017 - 10:28 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

...aside from the Turkina in the mid to late 3050s and beyond?

I don't remember any RAT really weighted heavily toward Turkinas anything near what the Summoner or Hellbringer were. I don't even think the Night Gyr ever usurped the Summoner in usage.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 March 2017 - 10:30 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 March 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

I don't remember any RAT really weighted heavily toward Turkinas anything near what the Summoner or Hellbringer were. I don't even think the Night Gyr ever usurped the Summoner in usage.

Well... so they didn't use assaults as often (I thought Assaults were supposed to be more rare anyway).. but you think CJF Assault, do you really think of anything other than a Turkina?

[Zergling]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

interesting on the MC...wonder if it's downloadable anywhere.

And yeah, so lore wise.. nothing of real note.

Quick google search revealed MC1 Gold was released a few years ago as freeware.

http://www.nogutsnog...hp?topic=2934.0

If that download doesn't work, then a google search should spit out other downloads.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 March 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

I was never really a fan of Verybad's redesign, honestly I wasn't that big of a fan of most of Verybad's work sadly. That thing also looks terribly top heavy.

I tend to agree, am just pointing out it's about the "best" version the Turkina ever received...and it's not even really a turkina.

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

Well... so they didn't use assaults as often (I thought Assaults were supposed to be more rare anyway).. but you think CJF Assault, do you really think of anything other than a Turkina?

actually, I always tended to think more Warhawks, because they seemed to be the ones most commonly used, even if not terribly common, or a "home made" mech. Plus, let's be honest. a name like "warhawk" fits CJF a lot more than CSJ.

And if they are so uncommon in use, or CJF assaults in general... that begs the question why are we focusing on them instead of a faction mech that might have seen much heavier usage?

Zergling, on 29 March 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

Quick google search revealed MC1 Gold was released a few years ago as freeware.

http://www.nogutsnog...hp?topic=2934.0

If that download doesn't work, then a google search should spit out other downloads.

thanks will look into it!

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

And if they are so uncommon in use, or CJF assaults in general... that begs the question why are we focusing on them instead of a faction mech that might have seen much heavier usage?

I meant assaults being uncommon in general. Or was that just an Inner Sphere thing?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

Well... so they didn't use assaults as often (I thought Assaults were supposed to be more rare anyway).. but you think CJF Assault, do you really think of anything other than a Turkina?

RATs are weight class based, and I'm pretty sure the Warhawk was more common than the Turkina.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 March 2017 - 10:40 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

I meant assaults being uncommon in general. Or was that just an Inner Sphere thing?

both but moreso in the IS. Assautls are still the least tactically flexible and most expensive though, so going to be less common.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

both but moreso in the IS. Assautls are still the least tactically flexible and most expensive though, so going to be less common.

Assaults also really hate aerospace, but I guess that is part of the tactically inflexible part.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 March 2017 - 10:42 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 March 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

RATs are weight class based, and I'm pretty sure the Warhawk was more common than the Turkina.

Ah I see. Well, I guess I'm foiled then.

I still want it though, as it is very CJF to me.

Lets just have the Blood Asp so we can have ANOTHER Version of the Boiler/Mad Cat. Mk.II

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 March 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

CJF also loved mobile jumpers and the Turkina is not that.

Well, it is a Jumper at least. And like I said, since most of the hardpoints are just about cockpit level or above, those 3 hover jets should allow for some level of hop tarting.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 29 March 2017 - 10:43 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 March 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

I still want it though, as it is very CJF to me.

Ehhh, I think it is considered CJF because they designed it, but doesn't really fit their style of battle (which is why it sees so little use).

CJF typically like mobile mechs generally with JJs if possible. The Executioner honestly fits their general style, but that poor thing suffers from being poorly optimized (if only it were 85 tons) which is potentially why the Warhawk saw more use since it was at least somewhat mobile. They also prefer everything to move relatively similar speeds like many Clans (Ghost Bear is fairly unique with their speed preferences for the weight classes).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 March 2017 - 10:48 AM.