195 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Revis Volek, on 02 April 2017 - 07:36 AM, said:

Yup, no one cares....

https://mrbcleague.com/signups

Well, in my defense, when I think of "competitive scene", I think of big cash rewards, medals and trophies, national/international recognition, and product endorsements. <shrugs>

0111101, on 31 March 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

Map design
...
Think Domination on Alpine Peaks.
...

Ultimax, on 01 April 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

This is one of my bigger concerns for a competitive mode.

Deathlike, on 01 April 2017 - 04:27 PM, said:

Getting an automatic disadvantage based on the side you spawn on is actually one the worst things to happen in this game.

Of all things to cry about ...

Edited by Mystere, 02 April 2017 - 07:45 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Mystere, on 02 April 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

Well, in my defense, when I think of "competitive scene", I think of big cash rewards, medals and trophies, national/international recognition, and product endorsements. <shrugs>

I dont, because not every sport or competition can take in or has LARGE SUMS of cash.


We cant all be the NFL unfortunately, Also many, many tournaments, sports and competitions dont consider you or your team PRO until you have won an event which offers a cash prize.


Cash only prizes all the time opens up leagues to things like sandbaggers and crooks more so then they have to deal with them now. Any old cheater would love to win a cash prize even if they dont play the game. But being MC is as good as cash to most of us and something only people who actually play would find enticing enough to compete for.


We also have a different idea of what a TROPHY is, i made trophies for years and i can do without the piece of trash with my name on it, gimme a prize instead.

But if we want trophies im sure PGI would offer that, they cost just about nothing and are more for the picture at the end of the day.

Edited by Revis Volek, 02 April 2017 - 07:49 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Mystere, on 02 April 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

Sure, as long your post count determines the weight of your opinion.

lol of course. That would actually be funny. Bishop, you, and whoever else is up in the 10k+ category.

Probably Fupdup and Mcgral.

Edited by MechaBattler, 02 April 2017 - 08:51 AM.

[Deathlike]

Mystere, on 02 April 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

Of all things to cry about ...

You do know that bad maps don't get voted on often?

If you're one to not like a relatively even distribution of map pickings (aka all maps are more or less "not terrible"), then we'll have more people complaining how stale maps are, and subsequently more complaints about wanting new maps occur (at this point, we're probably nearing 1 year since the last new map was released or something?)

It's one thing if spawning on either end has their own set of advantages, but then there's "lopsided advantages" that cause people to literally not vote for lopsided maps like Alpine being the biggest culprit.

[Nightmare1]

Revis Volek, on 02 April 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

They havent done much with Arena for a year or so now, id love to see it make a come back.


I like me some 1v1.

Yeah, it looks pretty cool!

[Alistair Winter]

So what was the verdict after the round table? It sounds like it was more productive than the bucket table. Are people happy with what was said, and how PGI is working with the comp players now?

I haven't really kept up to date on recent developments lately.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 02 April 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

You do know that bad maps don't get voted on often?

One person's "bad" map is most likely another person's "good" one. Or is there some God-given law carved on stone that defines what a "good" or "bad" map is?

Deathlike, on 02 April 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

If you're one to not like a relatively even distribution of map pickings (aka all maps are more or less "not terrible"), then we'll have more people complaining how stale maps are, and subsequently more complaints about wanting new maps occur (at this point, we're probably nearing 1 year since the last new map was released or something?)

It's one thing if spawning on either end has their own set of advantages, but then there's "lopsided advantages" that cause people to literally not vote for lopsided maps like Alpine being the biggest culprit.

How lopsided? 100%? 80%? 60%? 51%? Give a number.

Also, people seem to conveniently forget that everyone has a 50% chance of dropping on the "wrong" side.

Finally, MWO has a lot more problems on the "competitive" front than the uneven distribution on Alpine/Domination. Yet folks seem to cry a whole lot about the latter. That was my point.

[Deathlike]

Mystere, on 02 April 2017 - 11:42 AM, said:

One person's "bad" map is most likely another person's "good" one. Or is there some God-given law carved on stone that defines what a "good" or "bad" map is?

At this point, when people primarily pick to avoid it over picking it, that's a problem. We're talking of a distribution that is about "not picking it" vs "picking it".

In other games where you can pick maps, there are ones that are rarely picked ever... and there's usually a logical reason for it. Maps that normally don't get picked have usually decisively bad flaws that anyone that can objectively could explain its faults. It's not exactly rocket science.

Quote

How lopsided? 100%? 80%? 60%? 51%? Give a number.

Also, people seem to conveniently forget that everyone has a 50% chance of dropping on the "wrong" side.

Finally, MWO has a lot more problems on the "competitive" front than the uneven distribution on Alpine/Domination. Yet folks seem to cry a whole lot about the latter. That was my point.

It's equally mathematically possible to get screwed over in a row being spawned on the bad side. I know this argument was coming a mile away (your crusade for wanting 12v10 is no less legendary at this point). The thing is that when you have design flaws that makes one question just the map design in the first place... it means that you're wasting lots of time and money that isn't fully thought out... and given the history of the game... it's nothing new.


Map design and balance is no different from game balance. What you feel may be enjoyable is not necessarily enjoyable to the next person. When something is inherently unenjoyable due to poor design, then the onus is on the creator to address that in a meaningful manner. Keeping bad design only means you don't want to keep people interested long term as that is almost always the clear defining point whether people want to come back to play. Mistakes can be made, but they are fixable. Sticking with bad design usually causes more friction than anything else than "not liking a map" instead of "wondering why PGI wasted their time on this".

[Ultimax]

Mystere, on 02 April 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

Of all things to cry about ...

Are you pretending you will even be joining competitive play?

[Y E O N N E]

Alistair Winter, on 02 April 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

So what was the verdict after the round table? It sounds like it was more productive than the bucket table. Are people happy with what was said, and how PGI is working with the comp players now?

I haven't really kept up to date on recent developments lately.

I sensed some frustration, mostly from Proton but also in general, at how 'Mech/tech and game mode balance discussion was tabled but we'll see if Russ delivers in the more general April town hall like he said he would.

I also sensed a tepid response from the teams about MWOWC17, ranked play, and lobbies. Felt like Russ wasn't quite getting it on how lance arrangement needs to be obfuscated in the lobby screen, but I think he got it by the end of that thread.

There is a lot of interest in MWOWC17, the competitive forum, spectator tools, etc. Anything that made it easier to get more people interested in, or even just aware of, competitive play was pretty well-received.

[Mystere]

Ultimax, on 02 April 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

Are you pretending you will even be joining competitive play?

Sure, why not? Will that make you feel better?

Of course I don't do beer leagues. So the rewards have to be something more significant.

Edited by Mystere, 02 April 2017 - 02:41 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 02 April 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

I sensed some frustration, mostly from Proton but also in general, at how 'Mech/tech and game mode balance discussion was tabled but we'll see if Russ delivers in the more general April town hall like he said he would.

I also sensed a tepid response from the teams about MWOWC17, ranked play, and lobbies. Felt like Russ wasn't quite getting it on how lance arrangement needs to be obfuscated in the lobby screen, but I think he got it by the end of that thread.

There is a lot of interest in MWOWC17, the competitive forum, spectator tools, etc. Anything that made it easier to get more people interested in, or even just aware of, competitive play was pretty well-received.

Though it wasn't quite touched on enough imo, even how to draw in both players into Comp and how to potentially get more viewers was talked about (unlike the FW circle jerk, which only helped improve FW for players already playing FW). The only unfortunate part was how to draw in people who don't necessarily care, potentially, wasn't actually talked about.

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 April 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Though it wasn't quite touched on enough imo, even how to draw in both players into Comp and how to potentially get more viewers was talked about (unlike the FW circle jerk, which only helped improve FW for players already playing FW). The only unfortunate part was how to draw in people who don't necessarily care, potentially, wasn't actually talked about.

I think the biggest issue was touched on, though, and that's simple advertising. MWOWC was front and center on PGI's page and garnered a lot of attention. If PGI actually broadcast all of the comp leagues from mwomercs.com, and even did more endorsement of them with prizes and such, I think there'd be a lot more buzz around it.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 02 April 2017 - 03:53 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Mystere, on 02 April 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

Well, in my defense, when I think of competitive scene, think of big cash rewards, medals and trophies, national/international recognition, and product endorsements. ..

So to summarise...

You said it was a small number of people.
You got linked to the MRBC site.
MRBC site clearly shows its a fair bit more than a few people.

So because you were proven wrong, suddenly the competitive scene doesn't fit what you "think" it means to be competitive?

You just making up crap as you go or what?

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 02 April 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

Well, in my defense, when I think of "competitive scene", I think of big cash rewards, medals and trophies, national/international recognition, and product endorsements. <shrugs>

That's the professional competitive scene.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 02 April 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

I sensed some frustration, mostly from Proton but also in general, at how 'Mech/tech and game mode balance discussion was tabled but we'll see if Russ delivers in the more general April town hall like he said he would.

I also sensed a tepid response from the teams about MWOWC17, ranked play, and lobbies. Felt like Russ wasn't quite getting it on how lance arrangement needs to be obfuscated in the lobby screen, but I think he got it by the end of that thread.

There is a lot of interest in MWOWC17, the competitive forum, spectator tools, etc. Anything that made it easier to get more people interested in, or even just aware of, competitive play was pretty well-received.

The 12-player roster is still by far the dumbest thing that got my annoyed @ PGI. It was to the level where I'd want to Rickroll you AND force feed you "two girls one cup". I'm sure I could express it in nicer terms, but I won't. Not being able to show up AND watching the opponent not show up is what bugged me most.

So, there's still things to fix.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 April 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Though it wasn't quite touched on enough imo, even how to draw in both players into Comp and how to potentially get more viewers was talked about (unlike the FW circle jerk, which only helped improve FW for players already playing FW). The only unfortunate part was how to draw in people who don't necessarily care, potentially, wasn't actually talked about.

This is a foundational problem though. It's kind of a chicken or the egg problem, but it's more like knowing or not knowing what comes first before getting excited about the following stuff. You can't magically build comp play w/o fixing a multitude of issues plaguing it. Comp play won't grow overnight, but making it suck to do comp play is generally part of the problem (not just balance issues). The cart must come before the horse....

Yeonne Greene, on 02 April 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

That's the professional competitive scene.

It's not happening anytime soon™ for MWO.

[Y E O N N E]

Deathlike, on 02 April 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

The 12-player roster is still by far the dumbest thing that got my annoyed @ PGI. It was to the level where I'd want to Rickroll you AND force feed you "two girls one cup". I'm sure I could express it in nicer terms, but I won't. Not being able to show up AND watching the opponent not show up is what bugged me most.

So, there's still things to fix.

Yeah, and that they are going to lock the teams after qualifiers this year bugs me. I mean, I don't have a problem with locking, but I think you need at least an entire back-up team's worth of players to cover absences. The limit should start at 16, not 12.

[Mystere]

justcallme A S H, on 02 April 2017 - 04:10 PM, said:

So to summarise...

You said it was a small number of people.
You got linked to the MRBC site.
MRBC site clearly shows its a fair bit more than a few people.

So because you were proven wrong, suddenly the competitive scene doesn't fit what you "think" it means to be competitive?

You just making up crap as you go or what?

It is a small number of people.

Deathlike, on 02 April 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

It's not happening anytime soon™ for MWO.

And it never will until the game population problem is fixed followed by the audience problem.

Edited by Mystere, 02 April 2017 - 04:47 PM.

[9thDeathscream]

Isnt listening to the "comp" crowd what destroyed CW and thined out the Group Queue?

[Y E O N N E]

Kharonn, on 02 April 2017 - 05:19 PM, said:

Isnt listening to the "comp" crowd what destroyed CW and thined out the Group Queue?

No. And in the specific case of the latter, it's the opposite entirely.