193 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

dario03, on 04 April 2017 - 08:46 AM, said:

Hasn't the Cheetah been nerfed 3 or 4 times too???
And the Oxide got nerfed 3 times over in one patch when it got made much bigger, lost half its quirks, and got a bigger movement profile.

Yes. But was it as the OP asked "nerfed to hell"? Last I checked the Cheetah was still the top light in the game...even in its "nerffed" state.

Edit: as to the Oxide that and the BJ's were irrationally blessed for a time with all that structure. Removing that was not so much a nerf as a return to form.

Edited by Bud Crue, 04 April 2017 - 08:50 AM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

I sold all my wolverines and dragons, but I only bought them for the quirks in the first place.

[Y E O N N E]

Bud Crue, on 04 April 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

Yes. But was it as the OP asked "nerfed to hell"? Last I checked the Cheetah was still the top light in the game...even in its "nerffed" state.

Edit: as to the Oxide that and the BJ's were irrationally blessed for a time with all that structure. Removing that was not so much a nerf as a return to form.

The BJs lost more structure than they had gained and they also lost a great deal of firepower. I much preferred them as squishy cannons to now: extra squishy and a bit too much face time.

[Tesunie]

KingCobra, on 04 April 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

Your just a forum troll...

You have just called the person whom, on the forums, is often referred to as the "Competitive" answer provider? He normally answers just about any question from the perspective of playing the game in a competitive manner. He's helped probably hundreds of people on these forums by providing clear and precise information.

And he's a forum troll when he's providing facts, information and even links to prove those points?

All you've presented have been "gut feelings". No proof. No evidence.

Seems like you are the troll, seen as it's normally the troll whom accuses others of being a troll. It's also normally the troll who create posts that are intended to stir emotional responses, such as complaining about PGI and/or making statements that are largely known to be false.

justcallme A S H, on 04 April 2017 - 12:41 AM, said:

Two weeks ago he "has never" been able to quote.

Yet here we are, quoting and not quoting...


Just another bunch of stories. Much like this mythical nerfing of a TBR that is just another tall story.

Yeah. I come across people like that. One thread they "magically can't quote", and in another thread "Oh my! They managed to quote!"

I did have one person who legitimately could not quote, never did in that thread, and I believe still never has. Unlike KingCobra, whom started quoting, and then suddenly "couldn't quote" when people started to post actual evidence...

Bud Crue, on 04 April 2017 - 04:41 AM, said:

Taro's hit box repository. Taro's statistical analysis of every mech in the game at various points in time. Taro's general knowledge of how mechs perform and why and his willingness to share all of that.

You just called him a "forum troll".

Huh. There's a quip about a lack of self-awareness in here somewhere, and I'm just not able to grasp it while I'm filled with such disdain.

He's often known for his competitive side of the answers across the forums as I know it. Right up there with Koniving as far as information providing goes.

He's one of the few people who could say something, and I just take it at face value because he's already proven his sources, trustworthiness and his accuracy with information.

Mcgral18, on 04 April 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

IE can't quote, so he's probably using that

Hum. That explains a little. Doesn't explain why KingCobra could quote at one point, then moments later didn't...

FuhNuGi, on 04 April 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

Shadowcat...

Hey PGI, I am missing those quirks the SHC used to have... those couple points in the structure would not hurt balance due to the current clan critical damage.

They did not change anything about Clan mech component health (the mech locations themselves). All they changed was the equipment health when they take damage (from critical hits). What this means is, it is now easier to destroy a piece of equipment on your mech, such as DHS, that ERLL, etc. Your mech's structural health has remained unchanged.

Unless of course... I have been completely misinformed. (I always give that as a possibility, but I don't believe I have been in this case.)

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 April 2017 - 06:55 AM, said:

Huginn

and the VVindicator, not that it was ever "nerfed"

Q: Was it "nerfed"? Or was it's buffs just reduced/removed?

The term "nerf" technically means "brought beneath starting base values". As many of these mechs have been buffed first, than those buffs being reduced and/or removed... I beg to ask the questions on rather it's actually been nerfed at all or technically just unbuffed?

The Timberwolf, I will admit, has received some actual nerfs, as in some alterations to it's base states that bring it under that performance levels. This has been documented with the quirks on the (S) and the (A) pods, already mentioned within this thread. Not enough nor as many as has been claimed by the OP, but it has received some actual nerfs.

[Bud Crue]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 April 2017 - 08:54 AM, said:

The BJs lost more structure than they had gained and they also lost a great deal of firepower. I much preferred them as squishy cannons to now: extra squishy and a bit too much face time.

Agree, I still think though that the Oxide is in a better state than the Huggin. And BJs still seem to do fairly well (even for me...and that is saying something). Nerfed:? Yes. To hell? I just don't think they are as bad as others as a direct result of their nerfs. For my money the Huggin takes the cake even over my sorry Quickdraws.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Glad I never bought the Huggin. That thing was dangerous back in the day.

[dario03]

Bud Crue, on 04 April 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

Yes. But was it as the OP asked "nerfed to hell"? Last I checked the Cheetah was still the top light in the game...even in its "nerffed" state.

Edit: as to the Oxide that and the BJ's were irrationally blessed for a time with all that structure. Removing that was not so much a nerf as a return to form.

Top light doesn't really mean much.
Oxide returned to form? Yeah... by keeping lights from being good.
And then theres most of the other 35t mechs that were double nerfed in one patch and most of them were never good. Though to keep with the OP my original answer of the Ember fits very well since that used to be a top light and now is just a bad medium.

[Baulven]

Bud Crue, on 04 April 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

Yes. But was it as the OP asked "nerfed to hell"? Last I checked the Cheetah was still the top light in the game...even in its "nerffed" state.

Edit: as to the Oxide that and the BJ's were irrationally blessed for a time with all that structure. Removing that was not so much a nerf as a return to form.

Being the top **** in a bucket doesn't mean it isn't a ****. In any play where you have decent shots being a light is a liability.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tesunie, on 04 April 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

Q: Was it "nerfed"? Or was it's buffs just reduced/removed?

The term "nerf" technically means "brought beneath starting base values". As many of these mechs have been buffed first, than those buffs being reduced and/or removed... I beg to ask the questions on rather it's actually been nerfed at all or technically just unbuffed?

Nerfs/unbuffed only differ in which is the acceptable power level. A mech that was never OP to begin with is getting nerfed, a mech that was buffed beyond the power level is getting unbuffed.

[Black Dreamer]

ShadowHawk. Before rescale that mech was perfekt for its size. The rescale hits him bad in animation, gameplay (for me at least). The only what good rescale brings is fixed catapult. We are still waiting for better dragon, commando, centurion... These grossy missile hardpoints :/

[Bud Crue]

dario03, on 04 April 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

Top light doesn't really mean much.
Oxide returned to form? Yeah... by keeping lights from being good.
And then theres most of the other 35t mechs that were double nerfed in one patch and most of them were never good. Though to keep with the OP my original answer of the Ember fits very well since that used to be a top light and now is just a bad medium.

Oooo...Ember. Another good choice.

[Amsro]

@ OP.... the timberwolf sucks now?



My most dissapoint mech is probably my Highlander Heavy Metal. The lack of JJ ability stopped me from brawling like a boss in it. Used to leap over other assaults to ruin there day, now they just laugh at me hovering around.

Gauss charge up was another subtle nerf, although the 3 large laser no ghost heat change was a buff.

This mech might be saved with new tech. Still won't be a highlander until it can jump again though, just a lowlander as is.

[Tesunie]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 April 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Nerfs/unbuffed only differ in which is the acceptable power level. A mech that was never OP to begin with is getting nerfed, a mech that was buffed beyond the power level is getting unbuffed.

I can agree with that, but those terms are very subjective.

People are saying the Huggin, Oxide, Blackjack, Thunderbolt (etc) where all nerfed. Many of us feel that it was over buffed to start with (at their peak), and then brought back into line (and/or maybe brought down a little lower than it should). Is that nerfed, or just unbuffed?

Thing is, for each mech in each weight, there is a base line of operations. A base health, agility, movement capabilities, weapon capacity (though very probably different weapon types/placements), etc. Technically speaking, as long as a mech doesn't drop beneath those levels, it never was nerfed, as those as base line statistics (which exclude hard point types and placement). Anything above those base lines are technically a "buff", even if that buff is altered and/or reduced.

PS: I do get what is being said. I'm just being technical. I don't see it as a nerf unless it creates an actual penalty under what is considered a base line. This is not to say that some mechs need some kind of "buff" to be considered on par with other similar mechs. (AKA: All mechs should be able to perform at an expected level for their type, and be viable in the match, depending upon tactics, skill sets, and intended use.)

[Bud Crue]

Amsro, on 04 April 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

@ OP.... the timberwolf sucks now?

My most dissapoint mech is probably my Highlander Heavy Metal. The lack of JJ ability stopped me from brawling like a boss in it. Used to leap over other assaults to ruin there day, now they just laugh at me hovering around.

Gauss charge up was another subtle nerf, although the 3 large laser no ghost heat change was a buff.

This mech might be saved with new tech. Still won't be a highlander until it can jump again though, just a lowlander as is.

Dang so many candidates. Your post just gave me a flash back:

Now I haven't been around as long as some, but I do remember that when I started and then I discovered Metamechs.com in late 2015, the first heavy I bought after my Quickdraws (thus my bias and axe grinding above) was the Cataphract 3D. Why? Because Gman had it listed as the top ranked mech in the game. Oh how low, the mighty have fallen.

[MischiefSC]

Dragon 1N.

Huggin.

WubShee.

Wubberbolt.

[MechaBattler]

You can blame TTK going down on your precious clan mechs. If the Timberwolf is now "bad' it's because other Clan mechs have usurped it's position and can bring even more firepower, dps, or pin point damage than the Timberwolf. Its hitboxes are the same. Not much has changed for it.

Now you know what it feel like to be made obsolete by "superior" clan mechs.

My pick goes out to the Banshee. Even though it's still a good mech. Cutting it's quirks in half allowed the Battlemaster to usurp it.

Edited by MechaBattler, 04 April 2017 - 09:29 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tesunie, on 04 April 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

I can agree with that, but those terms are very subjective.

Yes, I'm conscious of that.

Tesunie, on 04 April 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

People are saying the Huggin, Oxide, Blackjack, Thunderbolt (etc) where all nerfed. Many of us feel that it was over buffed to start with (at their peak), and then brought back into line (and/or maybe brought down a little lower than it should). Is that nerfed, or just unbuffed?

Depends on your baseline, the Huginn wasn't even meta when it was at its strongest and it got nerfed before the Jenner IIC had even arrived (which dominated the meta until the Great Embiggening). So long as you are using top performers or even the solid performers (which is still mostly Clan), most if not all of those are considered nerfed.

[DrxAbstract]

dario03, on 04 April 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

Top light doesn't really mean much.
Oxide returned to form? Yeah... by keeping lights from being good.
And then theres most of the other 35t mechs that were double nerfed in one patch and most of them were never good. Though to keep with the OP my original answer of the Ember fits very well since that used to be a top light and now is just a bad medium.

The Ember was never a "top light". The JR7-F was the best all-round Light when Firestarters launched and I predicted Firestarters would rival or even surpass it, which is exactly what happened but only after Quirks first appeared and Pulses got buffed. Suddenly the FS9-A was the best brawler/hunter Light while the FS9-S with Mplas was the premiere harasser/striker. The Ember, however, had unquirked, pre-buff Mguns constituting half its hardpoints which forced you to rely on 1-ton Energy weapons if you wanted to fill the 4 Energy hardpoints--Mlas were garbage and you couldn't carry enough Splas to make up the gap between the A or S.

Ember... Hah. It's been a running gag nearly as long as the Jenner CT.

[Bishop Steiner]

KingCobra, on 03 April 2017 - 10:41 PM, said:

Sorry I disagree totally PGI has nerfed so many mechs hit-boxes there all like butter or paper dolls they cant take no damage like they could back before closed beta I was there I played them all for countless hours so your wrong totally wrong.

And its just not the Timberwolf 90%of MWO mechs are way to weak on hitboxes or armor and die to quickly MWO now reminds me of playing PlanetSide 2 more than MechWarrior.

Sorry, but it took you 5 years to learn how to use the quote feature...after someone held your hand and spelled it out for you. You'll forgive me if I question the depth of the technically savvy put into making these determinations. Especially since you're empirically, demonstrably, wrong. As usual.

[Christophe Ivanov]

To me, it's the UAC10 that feels like it's less useful than before. Yeah I get it, Git Gud and I do. But while getting gud I have noticed (in my opinion) the UAC10 is no better than the UAC20. UAC 5 and 2 I rarely use, so I cant comment on them. Maybe the weapons are at fault somehow? Just askin

Edited by Christophe Ivanov, 04 April 2017 - 10:23 AM.